# Yet another reason to go vegetarian. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 2, 2003, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-reason-to-go-vegetarian/172598 "2003-05-02T12:13:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![RexDart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b77776/32.png) [@RexDart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RexDart)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-reason-to-go-vegetarian/172598/61 "2003-05-02T18:03:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ferret Herder \* > \*\*To answer your first question, because then we wouldn’t have to deal with questions about how to kill 30,000 diseased chickens if we managed to stop raising animals for meat. Either that, or some people might realize what happens in modern farming and decide they don’t want to support it. I don’t think it’s a terribly good argument (and I’m a vegetarian myself) compared to other reasoning, but it’s possible. > . \*\* Would there even _be_ any chickens left in the world if we didn’t raise them for _something_?? I mean, how well are wild chickens doing these days? They’ve probably been raised for human consumption as long as any other animal except possibly goats. I suppose if you go back 3000 years there might be wild chickens running around like pheasant or turkeys, but do they even remember how to fend for themselves? If we stopped using chickens for meat and eggs, and ended chicken farms, where would we put all the chickens we have now? In the wild to die? Or are we supposed to be obligated to keep feeding the chickens, even though we wouldn’t be using them for anything? Just some of the myriad questions that would pop up if we ended the practice of raising animals for such purposes. Of course the first question would be “Where the fuck are my chicken wings??” Uttered by me, the man famous amongst my circle of friends for twice eating 50 burn-your-face-off wings in a single sitting. MMMM…chicken. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-reason-to-go-vegetarian/172598/62 "2003-05-02T18:46:40Z")
As a vegetarian who doesn’t like the way that animals are treated by many modern farming methods, i must say that while the process described in the OP sounds messy and little bit gross, it’s not top of my list of things to get riled up about. In fact, for me, the way these animals live (battery cages for chickens; small stalls for cattle, pigs, etc.) is more distressing than the way they die. I also concede a certain inconsistency–the type that i think we all live with on one level or another–in that i still eat eggs and dairy products, even though laying chickens and dairy cattle are, IMO, among the worst-treated of all farm animals. If i can muster up the courage of my convictions, i might end up a vegan one day. Giving up milk and eggs wouldn’t be so bad, but i reeeeaaally love cheese. ☹ And, regarding **scylla** ’s post: Growing up in Australia, i went to an agricultural high school where we learned a lot about animal husbandry techniques. One of our projects, in grade 8, was for each student in the class to hatch a chicken’s egg in an incubator, raise the chick until it was large enough to eat, and then chop its head off with an axe.\* When the heads were chopped off, some of the chickens’ bodies would still flap and even run around a little, which was apparently some sort of muscular or nervous activity but did not indicate that the animal was actually alive. This might have been the cause of some of the movement you saw in that factory. - Needless to say, my vegetarianism came later in life. I sometimes wonder if it’s the result of post-traumatic stress. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Zenham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a5b964/32.png) [@Zenham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenham)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-reason-to-go-vegetarian/172598/63 "2003-05-02T18:59:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by carrot \* > **Yes, you’re absolutely right. Everyone cares so much about you, that they have to feel superior to you.** Wow, were you _trying_ to come across as a moronic ass, or was that just the real you shining through? Forgive me for having an opinion, oh Enlightened One. The rest of us are but simple savages, unfit to walk in the shadow of your Birkenstocks, unworthy of feeling the waft of celestial winds that eminate from your holiest of sphincters; we are but the crust on the bottleneck of your Beano, perpetually an irritant in your lentil stew. Jesus, Carrot. Cut it the fuck out; your smug little attitude makes Baby Jesus weep. ---
**Author:** ![Zenham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a5b964/32.png) [@Zenham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenham)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-reason-to-go-vegetarian/172598/64 "2003-05-02T19:11:00Z")
Okay, okay… so that might have been a little harsh, in light of this: Correction to my original post: please change “most” to “some”, mentally, when reading. I know one hell of a lot of non-self-rightgeous vegetarians, who are just dandy. In any case, my problem is with people telling **me** not to eat meat. Listen, Mac, eat whatever the hell you want to. Eat gravel, if you want; it’s less cruel than eating vegetables (which are ALSO living things) if it makes you feel so very much better. But hey, I happen to be diabetic, and eating very little other than meat (chicken and fish, especially) IS the best thing for me. Bunch of self-rightgeous ass clowns… ---
**Author:** ![Humble\_Servant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/47e85d/32.png) [@Humble\_Servant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Humble_Servant)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-reason-to-go-vegetarian/172598/65 "2003-05-02T19:37:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Michael Ellis \* > \*\*The only question remaining is how he can join the One Trick Pony Chowder and Marching Society when he is against chowder. \*\* Corn chowder? ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-reason-to-go-vegetarian/172598/66 "2003-05-02T20:15:22Z")
This article has enraged me so that i shall buy a hamburgar in protest! ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-reason-to-go-vegetarian/172598/67 "2003-05-02T20:18:24Z")
I sense a being that dwells under bridges and likes to give goats a hard time. Notice how he hasn’t been back since the OP. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-reason-to-go-vegetarian/172598/68 "2003-05-02T20:20:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Michael Ellis \* > \*\*The only question remaining is how he can join the One Trick Pony Chowder and Marching Society when he is against chowder. \*\* No- what were you thinking you evil humanocentric “humanist”? You cannot use ponies in that fashion- to do so is to exploit them, and subject them to “animal slavery”. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9de0a6/32.png) [@carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrot)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-reason-to-go-vegetarian/172598/69 "2003-05-02T21:32:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Zenham \* > **Correction to my original post: please change “most” to “some”, mentally, when reading. I know one hell of a lot of non-self-rightgeous vegetarians, who are just dandy.** You’re lucky, punk. I was just getting ready to lay into you, when I saw your follow-up. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-reason-to-go-vegetarian/172598/70 "2003-05-02T23:23:43Z")
I knew I shouldn’t have lent my techumsah to those two hayseeds. The really fowled (ha!) it up good. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jeff Olsen \* > \*\*I sense a being that dwells under bridges and likes to give goats a hard time. Notice how he hasn’t been back since the OP. \*\* Can’t be, as said being is possessed of the desire to _eat_ the goats. Rather, I believe our friend is an angler who lays out line from the rear of his canoe. It’s a good way to catch walleye. I assume **T\_G\_D** would practice catch and release. I would also like to second **RexDart’s** post. Whenever I hear from the “meat is murder” people, I wonder if they realize that they are advocating the extinction of entire species. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-reason-to-go-vegetarian/172598/71 "2003-05-02T23:52:49Z")
I’m pretty sure there are a lot of wild chickens out there. Especially in the third world, where most of the economies are apparently poultry-based. They’re relatively small, don’t need exotic foods. Hell, there are flocks of wild parrots living in downtown San Francisco. Chickens should have no problems. Cows, on the other hand, are goners if humanity goes veggie. ---
**Author:** ![geordielass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3da27b/32.png) [@geordielass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/geordielass)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2003, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-reason-to-go-vegetarian/172598/72 "2003-05-03T01:15:51Z")
I must admit, I had never heard of chickens being put through a wood chipper before as a way to euthanize them. However, how on earth _do_ you get rid of 30,000 chickens? Firing squad, lethal injection, gas chamber, electric chair??? ---
**Author:** ![elelle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f0a364/32.png) [@elelle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elelle)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2003, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-reason-to-go-vegetarian/172598/73 "2003-05-03T02:30:57Z")
As an ethical vegetarian, my immediate response to the OP was “How horrible!” to put another creature through the trauma of being fed point blank into a shredder. I’d imagine everyone is in agreement that that is an awful fate for a sentient creature, even if the lot of a chicken ain’t so bright in the scope of things, all told. In reading the whole thread, my sadness is that such a tremedous waste has to occur, with the added pain of means of execution. The excess of execution happened because of a rampant disease. Do our farming practices enable that progress? From what I’ve seen, it does. It might be time to take stock and change our farming practice to a more humane one. If disease is running rampant through animal populations in an unhealthy environment, we need to realize that our bottom-line profit practices are short-sighted and detrimental to the actual bodies put through a shredder. The shredder. I find it sad that the those grinding wheels have come to that point. ---
**Author:** ![Jervoise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d2c977/32.png) [@Jervoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jervoise)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2003, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-reason-to-go-vegetarian/172598/74 "2003-05-03T04:08:02Z")
How would a vegetarian, shocked by the methods used to kill chickens in the OP, feel about the slaughter of animals directly caused by the large-scale growing of grains and vegetables? For every field of lettuce grown, scores of mice, snakes, insects and other field-dwelling animals are hacked to death by farm machinery used to plow the ground, sow seeds and harvest the crop. In addition, the destruction of natural habitats directly attributable to modern agriculture accounts for more animal deaths. Is one not morally culpable for these deaths, just as meat-eaters are responsible for the chicken deaths in the OP? (I’m genuinely curious how ethical vegetarians feel here; I’m not just trying to stir anyone up for the sake of it.) ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2003, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-reason-to-go-vegetarian/172598/75 "2003-05-03T05:03:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elelle \* > \*\*As an ethical vegetarian, my immediate response to the OP was “How horrible!” to put another creature through the trauma of being fed point blank into a shredder. \*\* I don’t think chickens know what a wood chipper means. > [@](#): > > I’d imagine everyone is in agreement that that is an awful fate for a sentient creature, even if the lot of a chicken ain’t so bright in the scope of things, all told. \*\* There has never been any chicken anywhere that remotely qualified as “sentient.” > [@](#): > > \*\*we need to realize that our bottom-line profit practices are short-sighted and detrimental to the actual bodies put through a shredder. \*\* What bottom line practices would you propose as being beneficial to a body about to be put throuh a shredder? Would they have been happier as stew? > [@](#): > > \*\*The shredder. I find it sad that the those grinding wheels have come to that point. \*\* Where do wheels come to a point? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2003, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-reason-to-go-vegetarian/172598/76 "2003-05-03T06:13:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elelle \* > As an ethical vegetarian, my immediate response to the OP was “How horrible!” to put another creature through the trauma of being fed point blank into a shredder. As an ethical carnivore, I wonder why you think it’s worse they were fed to the wood chipper “point blank.” Would it have been more acceptable if they stood off a distance and lobbed them in? > [@](#): > > I’d imagine everyone is in agreement that that is an awful fate for a sentient creature, even if the lot of a chicken ain’t so bright in the scope of things, all told. I don’t agree with that. It’s a chicken. It’s nothing like sentient. If you looked up sentient in the dictionary, there wouldn’t be a picture of chicken next to it. > [@](#): > > In reading the whole thread, my sadness is that such a tremedous waste has to occur, with the added pain of means of execution. I honestly can’t think of a less painful way to die than being thrown into a giant wood chipper. Their death was instantaneous. They went from “Old, sickly chicken” to “fine red mist” in the blink of an eye. > [@](#): > > The excess of execution happened because of a rampant disease. Do our farming practices enable that progress? From what I’ve seen, it does. It might be time to take stock and change our farming practice to a more humane one. Okay, I’ll agree with you to the extent that I don’t like the idea of virulent diseases running through our food sources. What with Mad Cow Disease and all, we do really need to pay attention to the health of the animals we intend to eat. But as far as I’m concerned, it’s not about being humane, it’s about being hygenic. > [@](#): > > If disease is running rampant through animal populations in an unhealthy environment, we need to realize that our bottom-line profit practices are short-sighted and detrimental to the actual bodies put through a shredder. Meh. They’re McNuggets on legs. Most of 'em are going to end up in one sort of shredder or another. > [@](#): > > [The shredder.](http://buzwear.safeshopper.com/images/70bpkuo.jpg) 😛 > [@](#): > > I find it sad that the those grinding wheels have come to that point. Well, if they didn’t come to that point, it probably would have hurt a lot worse. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2003, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-reason-to-go-vegetarian/172598/77 "2003-05-03T23:13:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Scylla \* > \*\*\*\*There has never been any chicken anywhere that remotely qualified as “sentient.” \*\* I beg to differ, sir. [cite](http://www.toonopedia.com/suprchic.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Already\_in\_Use](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a9adbd/32.png) [@Already\_in\_Use](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Already_in_Use)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2003, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-reason-to-go-vegetarian/172598/78 "2003-05-04T00:54:56Z")
So they just come out in a mist? Because it would be sort of cool if they came out in little chunks and then you had some kind of laser thing that would locate and roast them in a split-second. Of course, I suppose they would need to be plucked and disemboweled first… ---
**Author:** ![Payton\_s\_Servant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3da27b/32.png) [@Payton\_s\_Servant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Payton_s_Servant)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2003, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-reason-to-go-vegetarian/172598/79 "2003-05-04T01:06:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by the\_great\_dalmuti \* > \*\*[Here’s the full story.](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=573&ncid=757&e=1&u=/nm/20030414/od_nm/odd_chickens_dc) > > Whenever you eat eggs or chicken, remember that you’re supporting an industry which dictates that “using wood chippers to kill chickens” is “an accepted practice.” > > Best, > > TGD \*\* Oh, Please. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![hebesphenomegacorona](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b9e5f3/32.png) [@hebesphenomegacorona](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hebesphenomegacorona)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2003, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-reason-to-go-vegetarian/172598/80 "2003-05-04T01:38:26Z")
> [@](#): > > Chicken mist Band name! and maybe chicken chunks would make a nice topping for stuff… Mmm…chicken chunks… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-reason-to-go-vegetarian/172598.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-reason-to-go-vegetarian/172598.md?page=5)