# Yet another reason to Pit the NRA - no taggants in gunpowder **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 18, 2013, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-reason-to-pit-the-nra-no-taggants-in-gunpowder/656031 "2013-04-18T13:03:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2013, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-reason-to-pit-the-nra-no-taggants-in-gunpowder/656031/321 "2013-04-24T16:32:00Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > …It is notorious that the only example found for recent funded research was the one I brought to show how out of the current research the NRA is, once again, if there are no tax breaks or incentives from the government not much will change regarding the use of the research. > > \*Actually the unhinged door here is showing to be just a plain nut, just about the kind that indeed does discredit one side. Hahahaha. Are you saying that you can’t research taggant use because you couldn’t get a tax break or incentive from the government? Do you believe that since all innovation stems from the largesse of the government it would be impossible for you to do research with your own money? Or effort? You really fell for the “You didn’t build that” speech, lock, stock, and barrel. :smack: Your obsessive hatred for the NRA discredited your position. At least you managed to get a little exercise “jumping to conclusions”. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2013, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-reason-to-pit-the-nra-no-taggants-in-gunpowder/656031/322 "2013-04-24T18:37:25Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Hahahaha. Are you saying that you can’t research taggant use because you couldn’t get a tax break or incentive from the government? Do you believe that since all innovation stems from the largesse of the government it would be impossible for you to do research with your own money? Or effort? You really fell for the “You didn’t build that” speech, lock, stock, and barrel. :smack: > > Your obsessive hatred for the NRA discredited your position. At least you managed to get a little exercise “jumping to conclusions”. As mentioned, you are still unhinged, but we already knew that. 🙂 > **[Putting Mitt Romney's attacks on 'You didn't build that' to the Truth-O-Meter](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2012/jul/26/mitt-romney/putting-mitt-romneys-attacks-you-didnt-build-truth/)** > > For nearly two weeks, the Romney and Obama campaign have been arguing about whether President Barack Obama insulted entr ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2013, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-reason-to-pit-the-nra-no-taggants-in-gunpowder/656031/323 "2013-04-24T18:45:01Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Thanks for the info. Before we got too far away from this, I just wanted to say thanks for this, assuming that you meant it sincerely. I’m used to pitched arguments here that do not result in anything more meaningful than counterargument. I felt vituperative when I wrote the initial post to you, and felt a little sheepish about it when you responded thoughtfully. I think I get too jaded and cynical from my interactions here, so I appreciate the curveball. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2013, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-reason-to-pit-the-nra-no-taggants-in-gunpowder/656031/324 "2013-04-24T23:28:27Z")
So, **RTFirefly** , our OP. Are we just going to let this thread fade away without an explicit admission that perhaps the NRA is not to blame for the lack of taggants in the Boston marathon bombs after all? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2013, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-reason-to-pit-the-nra-no-taggants-in-gunpowder/656031/325 "2013-04-24T23:54:43Z")
> **['Taggants' In Gunpowder Might Have Helped Identify Bombers](https://www.npr.org/2013/04/24/178858037/taggants-in-gunpowder-might-have-helped-identify-bombers)** > > The Boston bombing probe might have been helped if the explosives were marked with microscopic identifiers called taggants. But the technology has long been off-limits, thanks to the National Rifle Association and its industry allies. NPR radio broadcast story on the topic. Offered without comment. ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2013, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-reason-to-pit-the-nra-no-taggants-in-gunpowder/656031/326 "2013-04-25T01:01:21Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > ['Taggants' In Gunpowder Might Have Helped Identify Bombers : NPR](http://www.npr.org/2013/04/24/178858037/taggants-in-gunpowder-might-have-helped-identify-bombers) > > NPR radio broadcast story on the topic. Offered without comment. Excellent audio article, NPR is the only station I ever listen to in the car. But if these bombs weren’t constructed with gunpowder, but fireworks, then it’s sort of a non-starter. The most popular explosive seems to be ANFO for terrorists who really want bang. First World Trade/OKC, neither used gunpowder. I think it was you that labeled these bombers as “morons” because they couldn’t lay their hands on anything more aggressive than black powder. And it appears that you overestimated them, they couldn’t even lay their hands on that. Are any lobbying groups seeking to limit taggants in fertilizer or fireworks? Or is it just “gun” powders that set us off? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2013, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-reason-to-pit-the-nra-no-taggants-in-gunpowder/656031/327 "2013-04-25T01:06:09Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > ['Taggants' In Gunpowder Might Have Helped Identify Bombers : NPR](http://www.npr.org/2013/04/24/178858037/taggants-in-gunpowder-might-have-helped-identify-bombers) > > NPR radio broadcast story on the topic. Offered without comment. My comment: FIREWORKS. Which lobbying entity is stopping fireworks from getting taggants? Go Pit them. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2013, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-reason-to-pit-the-nra-no-taggants-in-gunpowder/656031/328 "2013-04-25T01:16:45Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > My comment: FIREWORKS. > > Which lobbying entity is stopping fireworks from getting taggants? Go Pit them. I was going to let this one go, but there is one nit then, **Black Powder is also used in fireworks**. > **[Finding the Right Black Powder For Fireworks](https://www.skylighter.com/blogs/fireworks-information/black-powder-for-fireworks)** > > Confused or having a hard time making sense of all the black powder grades? Well, here's how to find the "right" type black powder to use in your fireworks. > > The manufacturers classify Black Powder types and grain sizes by the numbers and letters... Are they similar or the same as the stuff used for some firearms? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2013, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-reason-to-pit-the-nra-no-taggants-in-gunpowder/656031/329 "2013-04-25T01:32:58Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > My comment: FIREWORKS. > > Which lobbying entity is stopping fireworks from getting taggants? Go Pit them. Federal investigators have not revealed what was used to make the bombs. [Unused fireworks were found](http://www.northjersey.com/news/Fireworks_salesman_recalls_accused_bomber_wanting_biggest_loudest_explosive.html) in Dzhokhar Tsarnaev’s dorm room at UMass Dartmouth, so it is unclear they used fireworks to make the bombs. ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2013, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-reason-to-pit-the-nra-no-taggants-in-gunpowder/656031/330 "2013-04-25T01:42:50Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Are they similar or the same as the stuff used for some firearms? Absolutely. Muzzle loaders - pistols, rifles, and muskets - all use black powder. There are even “Black Powder” hunting seasons that coincide with bow hunting season in some places. There are also black powder six shooters, where each cylinder in the pistol is loaded with powder/patch/ball. Not sure if any of those are currently in production, the whole black powder shooting scene is a pretty small niche, I’ve only seen one muzzle loading rifle fired in my life. ---
**Author:** ![mske](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ccd318/32.png) [@mske](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mske)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2013, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-reason-to-pit-the-nra-no-taggants-in-gunpowder/656031/331 "2013-04-25T01:47:53Z")
> [@mske](#): > > Just so I’m clear - you want taggants put in all gunpowder, or only gunpowder used in the manufacture of bullets? Can I please get an answer to this question. From **ElvisL1ves, RTFirely, elucidator, GIGObuster, WarmNPrickly, Czarcasm**? Anyone? ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2013, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-reason-to-pit-the-nra-no-taggants-in-gunpowder/656031/332 "2013-04-25T01:51:58Z")
> [@mske](#): > > Can I please get an answer to this question. From **ElvisL1ves, RTFirely, elucidator, GIGObuster, WarmNPrickly, Czarcasm**? Anyone? Technically speaking, no gunpowder goes into the production of bullets. Bullets are the projectile shot from the gun, cartridges are the casing/primer/powder/bullet assembly. There is gunpowder in a cartridge. ---
**Author:** ![mske](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ccd318/32.png) [@mske](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mske)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2013, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-reason-to-pit-the-nra-no-taggants-in-gunpowder/656031/333 "2013-04-25T01:54:46Z")
> [@Duke\_of\_Rat](#): > > Technically speaking, no gunpowder goes into the production of bullets. Bullets are the projectile shot from the gun, cartridges are the casing/primer/powder/bullet assembly. There is gunpowder in a cartridge. Thank you for the correction. The question still stands - for the cartridge. ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2013, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-reason-to-pit-the-nra-no-taggants-in-gunpowder/656031/334 "2013-04-25T01:58:49Z")
> [@mske](#): > > Thank you for the correction. The question still stands - for the cartridge. What other uses are there for gunpowder, other than the manufacture of ammunition? We’ve seen that black powder could be used for fireworks, but are there any applications for smokeless gunpowder other than ammunition? Note that gunpowder is fairly specialized stuff, with different burn rates to be used with different applications. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2013, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-reason-to-pit-the-nra-no-taggants-in-gunpowder/656031/335 "2013-04-25T02:09:00Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > I was going to let this one go, but there is one nit then, **Black Powder is also used in fireworks**. > > [Black Powder Grades For Fireworks — Skylighter, Inc.](http://www.skylighter.com/fireworks/making-fireworks-projects/blackpowder-fireworks.asp) > > Are they similar or the same as the stuff used for some firearms? Yes… Muzzleloaders. The kind of firearms you load one shot at a time, tamping in the wadding and bullet over the powder. Those kinds of firearms. Not a huge source of crime. Few corner boys are willing stand around patiently while their drive-by assailant reloads his muzzle-loaded firearm. Not the same stuff that goes into modern cartridge type firepower. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2013, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-reason-to-pit-the-nra-no-taggants-in-gunpowder/656031/336 "2013-04-25T02:14:04Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Federal investigators have not revealed what was used to make the bombs. [Unused fireworks were found](http://www.northjersey.com/news/Fireworks_salesman_recalls_accused_bomber_wanting_biggest_loudest_explosive.html) in Dzhokhar Tsarnaev’s dorm room at UMass Dartmouth, so it is unclear they used fireworks to make the bombs. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Ok. Yes. So let’s ask this as a crazy, unfounded hypothetical. I guess federal investigators have not ruled out a Tea Party membership for Tamerlane Tsarnaev either – weren’t you one of the geniuses predicting that? ---
**Author:** ![mske](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ccd318/32.png) [@mske](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mske)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2013, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-reason-to-pit-the-nra-no-taggants-in-gunpowder/656031/337 "2013-04-25T02:18:59Z")
> [@Duke\_of\_Rat](#): > > What other uses are there for gunpowder, other than the manufacture of ammunition? We’ve seen that black powder could be used for fireworks, but are there any applications for smokeless gunpowder other than ammunition? Note that gunpowder is fairly specialized stuff, with different burn rates to be used with different applications. Yes - blackpowder, which was used in the Boston bombs, which gunpowder is known colloquially, and which the OP was originally posting about. ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2013, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-reason-to-pit-the-nra-no-taggants-in-gunpowder/656031/338 "2013-04-25T02:27:27Z")
> [@mske](#): > > Yes - blackpowder, which was used in the Boston bombs, which gunpowder is known colloquially, and which the OP was originally posting about. OK, I won’t try to educate you about the differences. If you are under the impression they are one in the same, or even if all gun powder is one in the same, then there’s not anything else to discuss. ---
**Author:** ![mske](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ccd318/32.png) [@mske](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mske)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2013, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-reason-to-pit-the-nra-no-taggants-in-gunpowder/656031/339 "2013-04-25T02:30:11Z")
> [@Duke\_of\_Rat](#): > > OK, I won’t try to educate you about the differences. If you are under the impression they are one in the same, or even if all gun powder is one in the same, then there’s not anything else to discuss. Let’s clarify. What do you think **RTFirefly** was talking about in the OP? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2013, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-reason-to-pit-the-nra-no-taggants-in-gunpowder/656031/340 "2013-04-25T02:34:01Z")
> [@Duke\_of\_Rat](#): > > OK, I won’t try to educate you about the differences. If you are under the impression they are one in the same, or even if all gun powder is one in the same, then there’s not anything else to discuss. **Duke of Rat** : is any organization working against taggants for black powder? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-reason-to-pit-the-nra-no-taggants-in-gunpowder/656031.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-reason-to-pit-the-nra-no-taggants-in-gunpowder/656031.md?page=18)