# Yet another reason to Pit the NRA - no taggants in gunpowder **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 18, 2013, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-reason-to-pit-the-nra-no-taggants-in-gunpowder/656031 "2013-04-18T13:03:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Paranoid\_Randroid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/paranoid_randroid/32/18_2.png) [@Paranoid\_Randroid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paranoid_Randroid)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-reason-to-pit-the-nra-no-taggants-in-gunpowder/656031/141 "2013-04-19T20:49:21Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > You already have one, obviously - that doing anything is stupid. So, back it up. That’s a culpably blatant mischaracterization. Prior to the commencement of _our_ discussion, my points on this thread were twofold: 1) although it makes sense to consider behavior on the margin, it didn’t seem likely to me that taggants would have a significant deterrent effect on terroristic behavior; and 2) taggants could plausibly facilitate the capture of criminals, and I’d be interested in reading a thorough analysis. That’s it. I’ll put it in simple terms that your petulant tantrum-prone monkey brain can understand: _I NOT CLAIM STUPID TO DO ANYTHING AT ALL. OOK._ > [@](#): > > Not every problem in life is containable within the realm of monetary quantification, but you don’t realize that yet. I didn’t claim it could. You’re spinning crap out of whole cloth. Hey, dimwit, of course not every problem in life is containable within the realm of monetary quantification. But we’re talking about making policy — I’m not allowed to suggest that some policy may not be worth its cost? That’s totally fucking asinine. > [@](#): > > even to the point of positing that there could be such a thing as a “sufficiently small” number of murderers allowed to go free in the cause of not even mildly inconveniencing a few hobbyists. OOK OOK. I NEVER CLAIM THAT MURDERERS SHOULD GO FREE SO NOT TO INCONVENIENCE LOBBYISTS. OOK. I CLAIM WE CANNOT ESCAPE CONSIDERING COSTS EVER WHNE MAKING POLICY. OOK OOK. NOT SAME THING UNLESS YOU COMPLETE FUCKING MORON OOK. > [@](#): > > You don’t give basic human life any more than a financial value, and not only do not understand that you’re stunting yourself that way but laugh at those who suggest there’s more to life. You’re clearly a red, swollen asshole who wears his hatred of Everyone Else on his sleeve. Why should I take empathy lessons from you? ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-reason-to-pit-the-nra-no-taggants-in-gunpowder/656031/142 "2013-04-19T20:53:41Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > I thought we were talking about putting taggants on black powder sold in cans etc. What does that have to do with our gun deaths? I honestly don’t think that **ElvisL1ves** is intelligent enough to pick up on the difference. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-reason-to-pit-the-nra-no-taggants-in-gunpowder/656031/143 "2013-04-19T20:54:17Z")
> [@artemis](#): > > I’m sure the taggants wouldn’t bee too expensive; the database you’d need to track sales in order to make those taggants useful would be an entirely different matter, though. I bet more video surveillance would be cheaper - and would have broader applicability as well, as it would be effective in helping solve crimes other than rare bombings (such as flash mobs, wilding, muggings, etc.) > > I don’t like the idea of cameras everywhere - but I have to concede that in a public place I have no right to complete anonymity, and so no right is violated by using video surveillance of public places where crowds gather. And given that it was photographic evidence which led to the identification of the bombers in question, it would seem to be a better investment of resources. Maybe taggants would have helped identify the Unibomber more quickly, but he was unusually clever - most bombers aren’t as careful as he was. I agree on cameras, I think the London style camera system should be deployed in every major American city. I definitely think it makes it easier to stop criminals in the act, catch them after the fact, and also is a clear disincentive to commit crimes when there is a certainty of being recorded. I don’t know anything at all about how much taggants would cost. Like you I suspect the taggants themselves wouldn’t be too expensive, but I wonder about the tracking infrastructure and how much room in said infrastructure there would be for error and bad record keeping which would undermine their usability in criminal trials. I also am intrinsically opposed to “do nothing regulations” which is why I think it reasonable to ask for some projection of how often such a system would be useful. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-reason-to-pit-the-nra-no-taggants-in-gunpowder/656031/144 "2013-04-19T21:03:16Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > I honestly don’t think that **ElvisL1ves** is intelligent enough to pick up on the difference. Did **Elvish** unfriend you on Facebook? Or what, exactly? Its like you’re Javert to his Valjean. Or maybe Clouseau. ---
**Author:** ![WarmNPrickly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d78d45/32.png) [@WarmNPrickly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WarmNPrickly)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-reason-to-pit-the-nra-no-taggants-in-gunpowder/656031/145 "2013-04-19T21:05:51Z")
> [@artemis](#): > > Too bad, because it’s true. Gunpowder sales, ammunition sales, and fireworks sales are not tracked in any meaningful fashion. Even in the most restrictive states, like Illinois, you only have to show the appropriate card before you make the purchase; the actual purchase itself is not recorded. > > Impractical in this case because of the sheer volume of those sales. (And I’m really looking forward to hearing how we’re going to implement such tracking with gasoline, bleach, acids, etc. Hazardous substances aren’t limited to gunpowder, and your local Home Depot has plenty of things on sale which can be used in terror attacks.) So your saying that if a quality control error missed a bad lot and people’s hands started getting blown off, there would be no way to recall the bad lot. Wow, the gun industry is run by imbecilles. They all need to be shut down immediately. My peanut butter has better tracking than that! Or, your just full of shit. ---
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-reason-to-pit-the-nra-no-taggants-in-gunpowder/656031/146 "2013-04-19T21:15:08Z")
> [@WarmNPrickly](#): > > So your saying that if a quality control error missed a bad lot and people’s hands started getting blown off, there would be no way to recall the bad lot. Sure - the company would publish the lot number and tell people it’s defective and not to use it, just like they do with any other product. They would NOT be able to notify each purchaser individually, because they don’t have purchase records. Really, it’s no different than a food manufacturer making a bad batch of product - it’s up to the consumer to check their product’s label to see if the jar of peanut butter in their pantry is from the bad lot; they don’t get an individual notification from the peanut butter manufacturer. > [@](#): > > Or, your just full of shit. No, you just don’t know what you are taking about. Have you ever purchased gunpowder, ammunition, or fireworks? if not, maybe you should shut up and listen to those people who have. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-reason-to-pit-the-nra-no-taggants-in-gunpowder/656031/147 "2013-04-19T21:20:06Z")
A company like JIF or Peter Pan will generally know which wholesaler they’ve sold to, but after that you’d need to contact each of their wholesalers to know where specific parcels have gone definitively. The manufacturing might have some institutional knowledge of how their customers supply chains work, and might say, “typically peanut butter produced at our Elk Snout location goes to RFS foods and Big Ed’s Foods who primarily wholesale to Wal-Mart, Target, Kroger, and 7-11s in the states of Michigan, Indiana, and Ohio.” But to assume the manufacturer of peanut butter regularly tracks where their product goes after it is sold directly to their customer (typically food wholesalers and not direct end customers) is difficult to believe. Even if a big customer like Wal-Mart acts as its own wholesaler (probably does for much/most of its stuff) you’d have to consult Wal-Mart to track where it went after it hit its distribution center. ---
**Author:** ![wevets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9a140/32.png) [@wevets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wevets)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-reason-to-pit-the-nra-no-taggants-in-gunpowder/656031/148 "2013-04-19T21:29:51Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Adding taggants to black powder is a waste of time and money because taggants can easily be removed from black powder. I was curious, so I looked up what kind of taggants are proposed… > **[Taggants in explosives.](https://books.google.com/books?id=k-bfbzuPrIAC&lpg=PA3&ots=GRf43rs71s&dq=gunpowder%2Btaggant&lr=&pg=PA3&hl=en)** > > At the request of the Senate Committee on Governmental Affairs, the Office of Technology Assessment has undertaken an analysis of the proposal to mandate, the use of taggants in explosive materials manufactured for commercial use. A "taggant" is a... > [@](#): > > At the present time the leading contender for an identification taggant is a color-coded microscopic plastic chip which has been developed by 3M Co. Do you have any idea how hard it would be to remove microscopic chips from a powder? Your random homemade bomb person probably doesn’t have a centrifuge handy. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-reason-to-pit-the-nra-no-taggants-in-gunpowder/656031/149 "2013-04-19T21:45:06Z")
> [@WarmNPrickly](#): > > No. For several reasons, no. For one thing, the taggant is going to be embedded into the gunpowder so far that you will have to separate all of the components, then remake the gunpowder. At that point, you will have to test your gunpowder, and that will attract a lot of attention. > > This would be made even more difficult by the fact that the taggants will be in such low concentrations that simple techniques are simply not going to work well. In order to know that you have removed the taggant, you will need access to the very same equipment the FBI will be using to detect the taggant, and that will certainly narrow the suspect range. > > The ideal taggant, IMO would be parts per billion concentration ratios of common contaminants like calcium. I would be suprised if even the highest quality gunpowder didn’t already have 10 ppb of calcium, but it won’t have a 10:1 ratio of 43Ca to 44Ca and 10 parts per billion is thousands of times higher than the lower detection limit of either isotope. If you could make this work, you’ll become rich. You’re suggesting changing the actual composition of the black powder or propellant. That would change the burn rate. Slow-burning gun powder still burns very, very quickly. Fast-burning gun powder burns even quicker. Too fast or too slow and the projectile could become stuck in the barrel. A 2nd round could destroy the receiver or barrel. The increasing pressure from the 1st round could blow up the barrel. Adding taggants to gun powder creates unstable and dangerous gun powder which is why it isn’t done. Added taggants can be removed which defeats the “help solve crimes” notion. Law Enforcement personel have many other, more effective, ways of tracking down criminals. Simply asking for the public’s help seems to have helped locate these two morons. If some crazy person has decided that others must die in order to satisfy their own personal sociopathic whim, they don’t need gun powder, with or without taggants, to do it. ---
**Author:** ![WarmNPrickly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d78d45/32.png) [@WarmNPrickly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WarmNPrickly)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-reason-to-pit-the-nra-no-taggants-in-gunpowder/656031/150 "2013-04-19T21:45:18Z")
> [@artemis](#): > > Sure - the company would publish the lot number and tell people it’s defective and not to use it, just like they do with any other product. They would NOT be able to notify each purchaser individually, because they don’t have purchase records. Really, it’s no different than a food manufacturer making a bad batch of product - it’s up to the consumer to check their product’s label to see if the jar of peanut butter in their pantry is from the bad lot; they don’t get an individual notification from the peanut butter manufacturer. That’s all the FBI needs. Now ever gunpowder seller is checking the lot numbers they have. Then the FBI has a list of stores that has that lot number. Those stores will have some records of the sales they make, the ones they don’t have records of will be pretty few in number and can be narrowed down by the amount and other things they bought. Few people, in my experience, pay with cash anymore. I just think suddenly gun proponents are incredibly ignorant about how an investigation works. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-reason-to-pit-the-nra-no-taggants-in-gunpowder/656031/151 "2013-04-19T21:50:27Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > I thought we were talking about putting taggants on black powder sold in cans etc. What does that have to do with our gun deaths? Perhaps you see a moral difference in the mechanics of how a piece of metal is propelled into human flesh by an explosive material. Odd, perhaps, but you’re welcome to it. > [@](#): > > If we’re talking about putting taggants in all gunpowder and tracking it as it makes its way into every round of ammunition I see that being very laborious record keeping. Another foot-dragging excuse, given the experience you no doubt have with record-keeping being done quickly and automatically every time you do a financial transaction. The technology exists, the willpower is the problem. If you’re referring to registries being forbidden by NRA-bought law to be _computerized_, and therefore laborious, then you’re not really identifying the heart of the problem. > [@](#): > > Solving murders is certainly compelling, but at what cost. So, no numbers. I didn’t expect any, though. > [@](#): > > You want to look at the taggants as an “I hate the NRA and gun owners” argument. Supercilious twit as already noted, now combined with fucking liar. You must feel so proud. > [@](#): > > But a system with no quantified utility Human life has to have \*quantified utility \*to you? Really? Do you really not understand that your desire to feel superior to the dum libruls requires you not only to strawman their arguments, but to actually discount the value of human life? You might want to take a step back and think a bit. > [@](#): > > Maybe I’m crazy but I think new proposed regulations on society need to be justified by the person proposing them. Done. You just don’t like admitting it. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-reason-to-pit-the-nra-no-taggants-in-gunpowder/656031/152 "2013-04-19T21:56:04Z")
> [@Paranoid\_Randroid](#): > > That’s a culpably blatant mischaracterization. If you don’t like what you see in the mirror, it isn’t the mirror’s fault. > [@](#): > > Hey, dimwit, of course not every problem in life is containable within the realm of monetary quantification. Yet that’s the only realm in which you’re willing to explore the subject, and the only way in which you can form a rebuttal. If that’s not how you view the world, with humans being merely agents of economic action, you might show some evidence of it. > [@](#): > > I’m not allowed to suggest that some policy may not be worth its cost? That’s totally fucking asinine. What is asinine is dismissing any action aimed at reducing deaths and peremptorily dismissing it that way - _especially since you haven’t even fucking bothered to define any such costs._ > [@](#): > > OOK OOK Thanks for demonstrating what is obviously your typical method of discourse. Now go get your diaper changed. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-reason-to-pit-the-nra-no-taggants-in-gunpowder/656031/153 "2013-04-19T21:58:34Z")
> [@WarmNPrickly](#): > > That’s all the FBI needs. Now ever gunpowder seller is checking the lot numbers they have. Then the FBI has a list of stores that has that lot number. Those stores will have some records of the sales they make, the ones they don’t have records of will be pretty few in number and can be narrowed down by the amount and other things they bought. Few people, in my experience, pay with cash anymore. > I just think suddenly gun proponents are incredibly ignorant about how an investigation works. I would hypothesize that those in the gun culture are more likely to use cash to make purchases. Again - we buy powder in lots as small as a pound or less. When I am reloading, I go through many pounds of powder (and even play with mixing types for fun). There is also powder in the boxes of ammo you buy. Not sure how many 12 gauge shotgun shells I would have to strip to make a bomb, but I could do it if needed. That is going to mix up your taggants as well. ---
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-reason-to-pit-the-nra-no-taggants-in-gunpowder/656031/154 "2013-04-19T21:59:56Z")
> [@WarmNPrickly](#): > > That’s all the FBI needs. Now ever gunpowder seller is checking the lot numbers they have. Then the FBI has a list of stores that has that lot number. Those stores will have some records of the sales they make, the ones they don’t have records of will be pretty few in number and can be narrowed down by the amount and other things they bought. Few people, in my experience, pay with cash anymore. > I just think suddenly gun proponents are incredibly ignorant about how an investigation works. You’re overestimating the amount of information those stores are going to be able to provide to the FBI. They’ll be able to determine how much of Lot X was sold in a given time interval, but not who bought it. They’re not recording sales at that level of granularity. Buying gunpowder and ammunition has a lot more in common with buying salt at the grocery store than you seem to believe. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-reason-to-pit-the-nra-no-taggants-in-gunpowder/656031/155 "2013-04-19T22:03:49Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > …many pounds of powder (and even play with mixing types for fun)… Well, that _does_ sound like a rockin’ good time! But I’ll most likely just stick to Frisbees… ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-reason-to-pit-the-nra-no-taggants-in-gunpowder/656031/156 "2013-04-19T22:14:37Z")
> [@WarmNPrickly](#): > > That’s all the FBI needs. Now ever gunpowder seller is checking the lot numbers they have. Then the FBI has a list of stores that has that lot number. Those stores will have some records of the sales they make, the ones they don’t have records of will be pretty few in number and can be narrowed down by the amount and other things they bought. Few people, in my experience, pay with cash anymore. > I just think suddenly gun proponents are incredibly ignorant about how an investigation works. you remind me of the pointy-haired boss in _Dilbert._ “I just assume that anything I don’t understand is easy.” so far this place is one of two forums I’ve been involved with where the posters love to blow themselves about how smart and awesome they are. And in both places, I’ve seen a depressing number of prolific posters who seem to think “I’m right because I think I’m smart” is proof enough for all of their assertions. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-reason-to-pit-the-nra-no-taggants-in-gunpowder/656031/157 "2013-04-19T22:19:24Z")
> [@wevets](#): > > I was curious, so I looked up what kind of taggants are proposed… > Do you have any idea how hard it would be to remove microscopic chips from a powder? Your random homemade bomb person probably doesn’t have a centrifuge handy. How about a simple filter screen? Microscopic chips fall thru, the larger black powder granule would not. I’m sure there is more current informatino available but according to the book you linked - \*…Due to severe time constraints, OTA did litle original research: instead, an intenseive review of existing research was supplemented by discussions with manufacturers, distributors, and users of explosives and gunpowders, and with law enforcement personnel and experts… …OTA also directed a series of tests on the recovability of the 3M identification taggant. The Aerospace Corp. had conducted a large number of laboratory tests on the survivability of the 3M identification taggants, but the ONLY INFORMATION on the recovery of the taggants under field conditions came from POORLY DOCUMENTED demonstrations and training tests, conducted by BATF, the FBI, and other organizations. These tests, and others conducted by the Institute of Makers of Explosives, HAD PRODUCED CONFLICTING AND CONTRADICTORY RESULTS. …Some Project Limitations There are three general limitations to the completeness of this analysis of the proposal to legislate the use of taggants in explosive materials. THE PRIMARY LIMITATION IS CAUSED BY THE PRELIMINARY NATURE OF THE TAGGANT RESEARCH - MUCH DATA ARE SIMPLY NOT AVAILABLE. \* Adding taggants creates an unstable and unsafe product. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-reason-to-pit-the-nra-no-taggants-in-gunpowder/656031/158 "2013-04-19T22:25:06Z")
Obviously **ElvisL1ves** simply has nothing to say. Is there anyone else in this thread, pro-taggant or anti-taggant, who believes that people proposing regulations have no requirement to estimate their costs? I’ve yet to even see a single person mention how many crimes are committed with black powder sold in loose form. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-reason-to-pit-the-nra-no-taggants-in-gunpowder/656031/159 "2013-04-19T22:31:28Z")
> [@WarmNPrickly](#): > > That’s all the FBI needs. Now ever gunpowder seller is checking the lot numbers they have. Then the FBI has a list of stores that has that lot number. Those stores will have some records of the sales they make, the ones they don’t have records of will be pretty few in number and can be narrowed down by the amount and other things they bought. Few people, in my experience, pay with cash anymore. > > I just think suddenly gun proponents are incredibly ignorant about how an investigation works. What records will they actually have? And how can you be sure they could be tied to an individual? If each can has its own unique taggant, and you can track each can of powder sold down to time of sale, that isn’t necessarily going to get you the buyers name. They could buy with cash (and probably would if they were going to use it for criminal activity), and even if not, most stores don’t retain credit card slips forever. If you can’t link the individual transaction to a person, you’re stuck with looking through tape back to when the sale happened to see if you can identify the person from the tape, but just like credit card slips stores don’t necessarily store tape for that long (usually less than they do credit card slips.) But let’s assume all of that comes together and works out for the investigator. It leaves us with 3 simple questions: 1. How often will this provide investigators with a suspect or information on a suspect that investigators will not have already obtained through other investigative routes? 2. How often do criminals commit crimes with this product? 3. How much will adding taggants to the product and tracking their lot numbers add as overhead costs? ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-reason-to-pit-the-nra-no-taggants-in-gunpowder/656031/160 "2013-04-19T22:48:47Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Obviously **ElvisL1ves** simply has nothing to say. Is there anyone else in this thread, pro-taggant or anti-taggant, who believes that people proposing regulations have no requirement to estimate their costs? > > I’ve yet to even see a single person mention how many crimes are committed with black powder sold in loose form. I’ve concluded that **ElvisL1ves** hates the NRA and doesn’t care if adding taggants is a workable system or not. He wants to blame the NRA for something, anything. Cost analysists would have been done by anyone proposing such a system and by those who would have been expected to impliment such a system. The bottom line is that a taggant system is too easy to beat and it creates an unsafe product. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-reason-to-pit-the-nra-no-taggants-in-gunpowder/656031.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-reason-to-pit-the-nra-no-taggants-in-gunpowder/656031.md?page=9)