# Yet another SWAT raid death and no charges filed **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 20, 2011, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-swat-raid-death-and-no-charges-filed/568278 "2011-01-20T02:57:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-swat-raid-death-and-no-charges-filed/568278/161 "2011-01-20T23:59:21Z")
Well, it probably would have been a good idea to have it on them, in case the homeowner asked to see it. At least the _cops_ dodged a bullet, that night. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-swat-raid-death-and-no-charges-filed/568278/162 "2011-01-20T23:59:33Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > I don’t see why you keep bring up that the guy was a drug dealer. > > It might be relevant to whether there was additional misconduct on the part of the cops, but it has no relevance to the shooting itself. > > How does whether the victim was a crackhead or not change the cop’s actions from manslaughter to justifiable homicide? It doesn’t. But it’s relevant to address the “This guy did nothing wrong,” whining. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-swat-raid-death-and-no-charges-filed/568278/163 "2011-01-21T00:02:13Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > As far as I’m concerned, the issue is one you’ve ignored in favour of claims that it was a good shoot based on some _pro forma_ adherence to ritual, as well as a stubborn resistance to the idea that somebody woken up by a lot of crashing and yelling might not be a mind reader. The critical issue here is was the raid necessary in the first place? What did the police hope to accomplish, and why couldn’t it be accomplished by other means that pose a much lower risk to both officer and civilian? My claim is that there was no criminal conduct of the part of the police. I have already listed several areas in which the police did not behave as they should. The raid can’t be blamed on police. As a society, we have sanctioned this type of law enforcement. If you wish to argue it should be changed, then the proper target is the legislature, not the police. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-swat-raid-death-and-no-charges-filed/568278/164 "2011-01-21T00:04:00Z")
Who’s whining, dare I ask. I’m just curious because I think we’ve had enough argument-by-innuendo in this thread already. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-swat-raid-death-and-no-charges-filed/568278/165 "2011-01-21T00:08:57Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > My claim is that there was no criminal conduct of the part of the police. I have already listed several areas in which the police did not behave as they should. That’s fine, I can imagine this incident resulting in no criminal charges. I would hope that this particular police department seriously reconsider their tactics in future, taking a good hard look at what these raids accomplish and if they are necessary, and removing officers who have demonstrated at critical moments a tendency to overreact and shoot the civilians they ostensibly should be protecting and, yes, that includes drug-users, regardless of what they might otherwise deserve. > [@](#): > > The raid can’t be blamed on police. As a society, we have sanctioned this type of law enforcement. If you wish to argue it should be changed, then the proper target is the legislature, not the police. Oh, I’m happy to blame your society… so hysterical over drugs that a few random deaths now and then are deemed acceptable. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-swat-raid-death-and-no-charges-filed/568278/166 "2011-01-21T00:10:01Z")
He did nothing wrong in the context of the raid. He may have been a scumbag, but his actions on the night he was killed were blameless. He stumbled into a doorway holding a golf club, and was immediately shot. If the same cops had raided your house that night, you’d be dead too. You’d have heard a noise, stumbled out of bed, grabbed your gun, and been shot on sight by trigger-happy cops. And then your widow would shake the cops hands and tearily proclaim the whole thing an unavoidable accident, right? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-swat-raid-death-and-no-charges-filed/568278/167 "2011-01-21T00:19:20Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > I guess we can update the old figure of speech to: “You just signed your own search warrant.” “Sleeping while home” is the new “driving while black.” ---
**Author:** ![SubliminaLiar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/da6949/32.png) [@SubliminaLiar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SubliminaLiar)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-swat-raid-death-and-no-charges-filed/568278/168 "2011-01-21T00:36:56Z")
Will this be listed as another ‘drug-related death’? Maybe they tried to do a traffic stop first, not for officer safety or to avoid kicking doors down in the middle of the night, but because of asset-seizure or forfeiture laws where they keep your car to use in the ‘war on drugs’…? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-swat-raid-death-and-no-charges-filed/568278/169 "2011-01-21T00:58:21Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > If the same cops had raided your house that night, you’d be dead too. You’d have heard a noise, stumbled out of bed, grabbed your gun, and been shot on sight by trigger-happy cops. And then your widow would shake the cops hands and tearily proclaim the whole thing an unavoidable accident, right? It doesn’t even have to be a gun. The homeowner, still half-asleep, imagines that all the noise is coming from a television he left on. He picks up the remote, points it… And that’s enough, apparently, to justify the police “protecting themselves” in a situation they themselves created. ---
**Author:** ![stretch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a6a055/32.png) [@stretch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stretch)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-swat-raid-death-and-no-charges-filed/568278/170 "2011-01-21T01:45:07Z")
The [article](http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/home/50932722-76/blair-burnett-officers-police.html.csp?page=2)I read says (bolding mine) > [@SLC Tribune](#): > > On Sept. 16, the day of Blair’s death, Weber-Morgan Narcotics Strike Force investigator Shane Keyes received word that **Blair had 2 ounces of heroin and would be getting more that night**. Keyes asked 2nd District Judge Scott M. Hadley for a no-knock, nighttime search warrant because house “lookouts” were known to give warning when police were nearby. **Meth dissolves quickly, Keyes added, and “if given the opportunity, Chournos will destroy the evidence**.” Was the judge too sleepy to see that contradiction? Who the fuck was the warrant actually for? Someone’s getting heroin–quick give me a no-knock for someone else’s meth? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-swat-raid-death-and-no-charges-filed/568278/171 "2011-01-21T01:55:58Z")
> [@stretch](#): > > Was the judge too sleepy to see that contradiction? Maybe the police showed up at his house late at night. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-swat-raid-death-and-no-charges-filed/568278/172 "2011-01-21T02:22:33Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > That’s fine, I can imagine this incident resulting in no criminal charges. I would hope that this particular police department seriously reconsider their tactics in future, taking a good hard look at what these raids accomplish and if they are necessary, and removing officers who have demonstrated at critical moments a tendency to overreact and shoot the civilians they ostensibly should be protecting and, yes, that includes drug-users, regardless of what they might otherwise deserve. Sure, I can certainly get behind everything said above. But since the title of the thread bemoans that fact that no charges were filed, it seemed a relevant point to rebut. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-swat-raid-death-and-no-charges-filed/568278/173 "2011-01-21T02:52:07Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Sure, I can certainly get behind everything said above. > > But since the title of the thread bemoans that fact that no charges were filed, it seemed a relevant point to rebut. Well, technically the title is just stating a fact, without the necessary adjectives or embellishments that suggest bemoaning, which I propose would take a form along the lines of “Fascist pigs skate” or “Gestapo no stop-o!” or “Thin Blue Line delivers Lethal Papercut with Specious Warrant!” or “Golf Flog!” ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-swat-raid-death-and-no-charges-filed/568278/174 "2011-01-21T03:26:11Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Wait, when did police learn that Chournos had moved out? > > And by the way – it’s Melanie Chournos, who is a she, not a he. It’s pretty clear from the context of the article that they knew before the warrant. They had the house under observation for at least some time, and the warrant was issued the same day as the raid. Besides, we are looking at two options here: (1) They knew she didn’t live there and lied. (2) They swore that she lived there while having the house under observation. I have no idea why you insist on clawing for the small possibility that they were merely grossly incompetent instead of lying. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-swat-raid-death-and-no-charges-filed/568278/175 "2011-01-21T05:48:48Z")
Jesus Christ. Watched the vid again and I am stunned **Bricker** that you or anyone could call this a justifiable homicide. The officer was rushing towards that little hallway and as soon as he saw the man he shot him down. At about 8 feet away. Bang, bang, bang. Three shots. No warning. Consider that the shooter, could not really tell if they were armed, or what with (by his own admission) and SWAT teams are supposed to be well trained professionals, from what I see, this is completely indefensible. Police officers need to consider and not just react. Shit, if I was armed and saw Blair in my house with a Golf club, I would not just shoot him down. And we have the ‘Make my day law here in Colorado’. The cop that shot him had what? Five other guys behind him with weapons drawn and he claims that Blair was a threat? Bull Fucking Shit. He over reacted and killed a man. Simple as that. He needs a desk job. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-swat-raid-death-and-no-charges-filed/568278/176 "2011-01-21T06:41:49Z")
I find it odd that after Blair is shot and down, 6 SWAT members walk past him and into, I suppose his bedroom. It does not look like the rest of the apartment is in any way secured. Perhaps another 6 SWAT members are in the Kitchen and living room. But I don’t see the flashlight beams. Now, of course I’m just seeing one camera view. But, six guys to secure a bedroom? Seems very odd, they walk by him and seem unconcerned. And Blair falls in front of what looks like another bedroom door, it’s open, you can see it right at about 51-52 seconds, yet no SWAT team member goes in there. I would like to know the layout of that apartment. I do know however, that it does not take 6 armed men to secure a bedroom. And it’s pretty bad tactics to just walk in the door to do so. Idiots? Poorly trained? Follow the leader? Something fishy going on? Pick any two. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-swat-raid-death-and-no-charges-filed/568278/177 "2011-01-21T08:19:08Z")
> [@hansel](#): > > I’ll take a stab at this: > … > 3. Don’t be mistaken for a criminal Maybe the cops should take this under advisement. If they weren’t using tactics that are likely to lead people to mistake them for criminals breaking into their house, we wouldn’t have this problem, would we? ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-swat-raid-death-and-no-charges-filed/568278/178 "2011-01-21T10:10:43Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I agree that it’s very likely that, at that instant, Blair was more likely than not unable to process what was happening and **take the correct action to save his own life**. Hmm…well that’s certainly an interesting perspective. So he had to take action to SAVE his life? As in, his death was a foregone conclusion and it needed saving? Well gee whiz, I guess that doesn’t show up any sort of bias on your part or anything like that does it? So next time, I am driving home, at night, a drunk runs a red light and kills me - I guess my wife doesn’t get the benefit of my life insurance, because afterall, I didn’t take the correct action to save my own life. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-swat-raid-death-and-no-charges-filed/568278/179 "2011-01-21T10:17:19Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Look at it from the officer’s point of view. He enters a home. He believes a warning has been given and that they are entering the home of a drug addict/dealer, and that they have a valid warrant. The officer is holding a gun and a flashlight. It’s dark. He moves the flashlight to a doorway where he sees an individual with a “thin silver weapon” above his head ready to strike. He has no way to know the intention of the individual, the frame of mind of the individual, or whether the guy is even sane. He reacts by doing what he was trained to do. Protect himself and his partners. Tragic, yes it is. But I don’t see anything criminal. Well ok. BOTH Blair and the police were in the same situation, neither knew much of anything, both had scant seconds to react in a confusing situation, it was dark for both, neither knew the state of mind of the other. There’s only one very minor difference. The police are (supposedly) professionals, and train (suppesedly rigorously) for EXACTLY this sort of situation, for determining who and what is a threat. Who should be able to make better decisions in such a situation? While Blair **may** have made a bad decision (it’s not exactly clear what he could have done differently at that point to save his life), we KNOW the police officer made a bad decision. And of the two, who should we hold more culpable for making a bad decision? Perhaps to put it differently, I go into hospital, have a heart attack and need CPR. The doctor performs CPR incorrectly, and I die. I am playing backyard football, have a heartattack, and my neighbour, without the benefit of training, tries to perform CPR after calling the paramedics, but fails and I die. I guess you would let the doctor off, and charge my neighbour with Medical Malpractise right? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-swat-raid-death-and-no-charges-filed/568278/180 "2011-01-21T12:32:45Z")
Add in the factor that the situation in which life-or-death decisions must be made in “scant seconds” is entirely a creation of the police themselves, and I’ve no problem assigning them full responsibility for this death. Faulting/blaming the victim because of his lifestyle completely evaporates in relevance. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-swat-raid-death-and-no-charges-filed/568278.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-swat-raid-death-and-no-charges-filed/568278.md?page=10)