# Yet another texting driver kills someone. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 29, 2007, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-texting-driver-kills-someone/431571 "2007-12-29T05:40:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2007, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-texting-driver-kills-someone/431571/1 "2007-12-29T05:40:17Z")
Again, all I can say is [FUCK!](http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/2007/12/man_texting_whi.html) This lump of emulsified mummy crap fucks around with text messaging while driving his car, hits and kills a 13 year old kid, and is now waltzing around town on a mere $5,000 bail. The only mitigating factor here is that vehicular homicide charges are on his court dance card. One wonders if the DA will actually have the nerve & balls to follow through on that one. Oh, and did we mention he was driving without a license? Oh, the murdering fucker is ‘remorseful’, for the moment at least. Wonder how long that will last? ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2007, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-texting-driver-kills-someone/431571/2 "2007-12-29T07:21:08Z")
Murder? He acted with malicious aforethought? What happened was bad enough and the guy’s a tool for killing the kid and then splitting but don’t make it worse than what it was. ---
**Author:** ![ParentalAdvisory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@ParentalAdvisory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParentalAdvisory)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2007, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-texting-driver-kills-someone/431571/3 "2007-12-29T11:55:20Z")
Yes, murder. Murder as a result of neglect. ---
**Author:** ![dgrdfd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/eb8c5e/32.png) [@dgrdfd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dgrdfd)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2007, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-texting-driver-kills-someone/431571/4 "2007-12-29T12:12:52Z")
Meh. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2007, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-texting-driver-kills-someone/431571/5 "2007-12-29T12:45:54Z")
A truck driver did that in the UK a few years ago. In court they produced his SMS records as evidence, and found that he’d texted something like “BRB just had a bit of a problem” _after_ he’d killed his victim. Not murder though. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2007, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-texting-driver-kills-someone/431571/6 "2007-12-29T13:54:10Z")
From the on-line encyclopedia: > [@](#): > > murder, criminal homicide, usually distinguished from manslaughter by the element of malice aforethought. The most direct case of malicious intent occurs when the killer is known to have adopted the deliberate intent to commit the homicidal act at some time before it is actually committed. Very often, however, the law presumes the existence of malice aforethought from the circumstances, and it does not necessarily have to be proved directly. The most clear-cut case of this presumption of malice is when the killer inadvertently murders a person other than his intended victim. **Here, malice is presumed if the killer intended to inflict serious bodily injury, or if he behaved with such reckless disregard of the safety of others as to betray a “depraved heart.”** Sorry…Looks like manslaughter to me. Thoughtless and stupid, but I don’t think this is murder. ---
**Author:** ![phungi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/phungi/32/395_2.png) [@phungi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phungi)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2007, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-texting-driver-kills-someone/431571/7 "2007-12-29T14:10:45Z")
In this case, removal of the defendant’s thumbs would be appropriate… ---
**Author:** ![BoBettie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4af34b/32.png) [@BoBettie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BoBettie)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2007, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-texting-driver-kills-someone/431571/8 "2007-12-29T14:34:17Z")
WTF are people thinking? I like how he just thought that he hit a mailbox, so he kept on going. Um, what? You hit something; ANYTHING, you stop and freaking deal with it! I watched a Dr. Phil a while back on this topic and there was a teenaged twit on there claiming that she could drive just fine while texting. Of course, when they put her into a driving simulator, she was running people over, hitting other cars, swerving lanes, etc. Afterwards she was like “Well, that wasn’t fair- there were a lot of things happening in that simulation!” YES. Exactly like real driving! People figure that accidents happen to other people and people not as skilled as they are. It’s too bad that other people die when they’re wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2007, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-texting-driver-kills-someone/431571/9 "2007-12-29T15:43:29Z")
[QUOTE=dgrdfd] Meh. [/QUOTE] Now that you’ve cleared your throat, do you have a point to make, or something to add? A lot of things people do behind the wheel every day add up to criminally willful stupidity. I think it’s because, for modern Americans, driving feels as natural as walking, and they kinda forget that they’re operating a big heavy machine that can kill somebody in a heartbeat. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2007, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-texting-driver-kills-someone/431571/10 "2007-12-29T15:59:02Z")
[QUOTE=Kalhoun] From the on-line encyclopedia: Sorry…Looks like manslaughter to me. Thoughtless and stupid, but I don’t think this is murder. [/QUOTE] In some states, the driver could be charged with murder in the second degree. [Wiki link](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_degree_murder#Degrees_of_murder_2) > [@](#): > > The first scheme, used by Pennsylvania among other states: > > ``` > 1. First Degree Murder: A premeditated murder, and (in some states) murders involving certain especially dangerous felonies, such as arson or rape, or committed by an inmate serving a life sentence. > **2. Second Degree Murder: Non pre-meditated killing.** > 3. Third Degree Murder: Any other murder. > > ``` ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2007, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-texting-driver-kills-someone/431571/11 "2007-12-29T16:13:43Z")
[QUOTE=Baldwin] A lot of things people do behind the wheel every day add up to criminally willful stupidity. [/QUOTE] And only by creating a new Thread of Outrage™ for each and every incident can we ever hope to make a difference. I’ve said it before: this senselessness will only end when all vehicles are equipped with mandatory electronic steering-wheel finger cuffs. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2007, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-texting-driver-kills-someone/431571/12 "2007-12-29T16:16:30Z")
[QUOTE=Rick] In some states, the driver could be charged with murder in the second degree. [Wiki link](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_degree_murder#Degrees_of_murder_2) [/QUOTE] I’m sure someone will correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought second-degree murder was the “crime of passion” thing, or something along those lines. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2007, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-texting-driver-kills-someone/431571/13 "2007-12-29T16:26:50Z")
[QUOTE=Rick] In some states, the driver could be charged with murder in the second degree. [Wiki link](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_degree_murder#Degrees_of_murder_2) [/QUOTE] I don’t think so. Even in second-degree murder, there is malice aforethought. The person is suddenly struck with an intention to kill or severely injure someone, and they act on it. This is still not the same as manslaughter, where at no point is there any intention to kill anyone. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2007, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-texting-driver-kills-someone/431571/14 "2007-12-29T16:48:46Z")
I hate hearing stories like this. I was once talking to a coworker who said she texted while driving and when I expressed shock, she hastily added that she would never text if someone else was on the road. Yeah, right! However… Texters are not the only people who cause these kinds of accidents, but you don’t hear about the others. When’s the last time you heard about a driver slamming into a Mac Truck while eating a Big Mac? Or a driver mowing down a pedestrian while searching for a CD to pop into the deck? Or a driver causing an accident because they were too busy yelling at their kids’ reflections in the rear view mirror? Surely these kinds of incidents happen, but we never hear about them. Probably because evidence is lacking, but also because every single one of us has been guilty of doing something as equally dumb. Doesn’t make for a very sensationalized headline when it’s a crime you’ve committed. So while I’m all for piling on irresponsible texters, I don’t think it’s fair for us to call for their heads on a silver platter. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2007, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-texting-driver-kills-someone/431571/15 "2007-12-29T17:08:25Z")
[QUOTE=Cosmic Relief] I don’t think so. Even in second-degree murder, there is malice aforethought. The person is suddenly struck with an intention to kill or severely injure someone, and they act on it. This is still not the same as manslaughter, where at no point is there any intention to kill anyone. [/QUOTE] From the same Wiki link > [@](#): > > To repeat, at common law murder is defined as the unlawful killing of a human person with malice aforethought. Malice aforethought exists if the defendant acts with any of the following states of mind: > > (i) Intent to kill; (ii) Intent to inflict serious bodily harm; (iii) Reckless indifference to an unjustifiably high risk to human life (abandoned and malignant heart); or (iv) Intent to commit a felony (felony-murder doctrine)… > Under element (iii) abandoned and malignant heart, the killing must result from defendant’s conduct involving a reckless indifference to human life and a conscious disregard of an unreasonable risk of death or serious bodily injury. IANAL but it looks like texting while driving could come under section iii. Now I agree that there is a higher chance of a conviction under manslaughter than murder 2, but I could see a aggressive DA filing both and allowing the jury to make the call. **Kalhoun** you are incorrect. I was a jury foreman on a murder trial, and we convicted on murder 2. It was not a crime of passion. Intent to kill/ premeditation was the difference. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2007, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-texting-driver-kills-someone/431571/16 "2007-12-29T17:19:47Z")
[QUOTE=Rick] From the same Wiki linkIANAL but it looks like texting while driving could come under section iii. Now I agree that there is a higher chance of a conviction under manslaughter than murder 2, but I could see a aggressive DA filing both and allowing the jury to make the call. **Kalhoun** you are incorrect. I was a jury foreman on a murder trial, and we convicted on murder 2. It was not a crime of passion. Intent to kill/ premeditation was the difference. [/QUOTE] How would that apply to a person who was texting? There is no intent or premeditation. And I don’t see how it could be classified as reckless indifference. ---
**Author:** ![SnakesCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4af34b/32.png) [@SnakesCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakesCatLady)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2007, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-texting-driver-kills-someone/431571/17 "2007-12-29T17:42:34Z")
I can certainly see texting while driving as reckless indifference. One thing that stood out to me in the article was the statement that the guy “had four kids with his girlfriend of 12 years”. Big fucking deal. He can screw. He and his girlfriend have their kids - he didn’t run over one of his own. What does his having 4 kids have to do with the fact that he killed someone else’s son? Question - you have the cellphone in your hand. To me, actually calling on the cellphone requires much less attention to the phone than texting. Why not use the phone to call someone instead of texting? I have a friend who text messages me all the time at hockey games. I hate it. I have no intention of taking my attention off of the game I paid to see to read a stupid message. If it is so blasted important, call me! ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2007, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-texting-driver-kills-someone/431571/18 "2007-12-29T17:55:01Z")
[QUOTE=Kalhoun] How would that apply to a person who was texting? There is no intent or premeditation. And I don’t see how it could be classified as reckless indifference. [/QUOTE] No premeditation is needed for murder 2. If there is premeditation it is by definition murder 1. To be any type of murder it has to meet on the element of murder. Under element iii > [@](#): > > abandoned and malignant heart, the killing must result from defendant’s conduct involving a reckless indifference to human life and a **conscious disregard of an unreasonable risk of death or serious bodily injury.** Did the defendant intend to text? If the answer is yes, then I can argue that it was a conscious act. Is texting while driving present an unreasonable risk of death or or serious bodily injury? Well besides the fact that someone did in fact die as a result of the driver texting, you can make the argument that if you are looking at the little screen on the phone, you are not looking out the big window in front of you. Not looking out the windshield in a moving car, IMHO, presents an unreasonable risk of death or serious bodily injury. YMMV of course, and this is why we have jury trials. Regardless of what the DA decides to charge the driver with, it is up to the 12 people in the box to make the call. While the likelihood of a murder 2 conviction is slim, I can see the charge being made. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2007, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-texting-driver-kills-someone/431571/19 "2007-12-29T18:18:35Z")
[QUOTE=Kalhoun] How would that apply to a person who was texting? There is no intent or premeditation. And I don’t see how it could be classified as reckless indifference. [/QUOTE] Looking at a cell phone instead of the fucking road is _ipso facto_ reckless indifference. It’s no different than making a decision to drive drunk. If you are operating a deadly weapon, you are responsible for being aware of where the fuck you are directing it. Taking your eyes off the road to text (or even dial) while you’re driving is like firing a gun randomly into the air. It shows a profound indifference to the lives of other people. In my opinion, it’s murder and if your child was the victim of one of these self absorbed assholes, you might feel less charitable about it. I think texting (or even talking) on a cell phone while driving should be a felony. I’m sick of having to dodge these weaving, non-signalling, brake-slamming assholes all the time. I would favor some kind of public humiliation and/or flogging for those people. They’re nothing but a menace, no better than drunks. And I don’t want to hear from all the people who swear they personally aren’t the least bit impaired by having a yammer box next to their heads when they drive. Drunks always say the same thing. Everybody thinks they’re special. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2007, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-texting-driver-kills-someone/431571/20 "2007-12-29T18:25:22Z")
Incidentally, this guy had no licence so he had no right to be driving a car at _all_, much less thumbing tard messages to his moron friends while he was doing it. That measn he either had it suspended for some other offense (which shows a pattern of irresponsibility and a disregard for the law) or he never got one in the first place, which shows even more reckless indifference. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-another-texting-driver-kills-someone/431571.md?page=2)