Yet another time travel question

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
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  1. By “the speed at which our planet rotates,” I meant that we base our daily “times” on the position of the sun in our sky.
  2. Neuro-trash (gee, that sounds like an insult), do you mean to insinuate that the ball drops BECAUSE of time? I challenge you to name ONE natural phenomenon (not based on the position of the planet-i.e. seasons, the direction in which blades of grass point, etc.) that is dependent on time. Meaning that it occurs when a certain TIME is attained or reached, with no other variables.
    Time is a concept that humans have basically inflicted upon the world, neccessarily, to enhance our own understanding of it. If time is physical, what laws of physics does it obey? Can you bring me some “time?” Can you capture it?
    Boris: In scanning through this topic, and your post, rather quickly (due to TIME constraints), I failed to pick up some important aspects of it. For that I apoligize.

The IQ of a group is equal to the IQ of the dumbest member divided by the number of people in the group.

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Laws of physics it obeys? I’ll say this one more time- ** Time slows down as you approach the speed of light. ** This has been scientifically verified, both in labs and in nature.

Bring you some time? Just because something physically exists doesn’t mean it’s an object. I can’t bring you fusion either, but that doesn’t mean the sun is an imaginary concept. Time is a dimension, similar (but in some ways different) from the ordinary spatial ones.

–John

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“I can’t bring you fusion either, but that doesn’t mean the sun is an imaginary concept.”
That’s because the sun is a big ball of flaming, FUSING gas. It is not “fusion.”

You can say your “time slows down as you approach the speed of light” shpeel until you’re blue in the face, but you’re still not getting the concept of time.

The IQ of a group is equal to the IQ of the dumbest member divided by the number of people in the group.

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Okay, if you’re so smart, why don’t you explain to us what time is and how it behaves? You’ve spent your previous three posts explaining what it isn’t and how it doesn’t behave. If time doesn’t slow down as you approach the speed of light, then what does it do? If a ball falling to the floor has nothing to do with time, then what does it have to do with?

Modest? You bet I’m modest! I am the queen of modesty!

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Look, Rosseau, obviously the sun is a ball of gas. But it is proof that the concept of fusion exists. That’s why I used it. I was trying to make a point with someone who is notoriously thick-headed. But now I’ll say it an absolutely clear statement. I cannot give you a bundle of time because it is a dimension, not an object. Neither could I give you “length” or “breadth.”

I keep saying that time slows down because that is a law of physics that applies to time, something you asked for.

–John

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They only thing that can transend time is the Tycyon particle that moves faster than light because it has no mass. You could send messages to the past with them. The problem is how do you interface with this particle to send the message.

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Rousseau, have you ever stepped foot into a physics class?

Let me see can I name one natuarl phenomenon that is dependent on time.

Uh. . .
Anything that changes or moves.

If time didn’t exist, NOTHING would be able to move or change.

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Phobia-- the particle you’re thinking of is the “tachyon”. Tachyons are theoretical particles that travel faster than the speed of light.

According to Modern Physics by Hans C. Ohanian:

So there you are.
– Sylence

And now, for my next trick, I will talk in spooky half-references.

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Relativity for one. Quantum mechanics for another.

Can you capture some length for me?
Do you think we invented the concept of space as well? Well, space and time are a unified entity that is very real, beyond watches and meter sticks.

I’m afraid it is you that are indeed not getting the idea of time. Time is a very tangible concept that follows very real rules in physics. It is fundamental to the definition of all phenomena that we observe. It is central to some of the most basic laws of relativity and quantum mechanics. Quantum mechanics even has a very important unit of time called the Planck time – 5.3906 x 10[sup]-44[/sup] s. That unit is not something that we made up because we saw it in our environment. It is a part of the fabric of the theory of quantum mechanics.

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Thank you, Undead Dude, for saying what I’ve been trying to all along. You are my superhero.

–John

Miksch’s Law- It’s better to have a horrible ending than horrors without end.

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I tire of this too easily to read all the way through. But has anyone considered that time is a wheel? Think of a wagon wheel. Scratch that. A CD. The center is the big bang (or Creation, for you Creationists out there, me included, but NOW IS NOT THE TIME OR THE PLACE so don’t start cuz I won’t change… sorry. Back to OT), and moving out to the edge is entropy. Now think of a series of scratches radiating out in perfect straight lines from the center. An infinite amount. We may be on scratch #11239492302, right beside #11239492303. We’re about a quarter inch out. We can move forward and backwards, because we’ve invented that technology. But, in this case, we’re still flatlanders. We’re thinking 1-D. Front to back. We need to think 2-D, side to side, also. We could skip over to the next scratch. Everything that ever happened is the same, except that Herman Shmecky died in a wreck at age 5. But everything else, EVERYTHING, is the same. There is no such thing as “alternate timeline” because all timelines are true and real, just unbeknown to us. Everything that may happen WILL happen, to US. Any possible difference is being played out, at the same time, same speed, on another scratch, somewhere. Everything is the same except this ONE change. And ONLY one change, between each timeline. Now, keep in mind, there will be timelines with what we PERCEIEVE to be more than one change. But they do only have one change, compared to it’s neighbor. They have an infinate number of differences, for us. But to it’s neighbor, Jimmy Flattery didn’t ever buy The Far Side Collection 5. And that’s the only difference. But, sadly, we’re thinking only in 2-D when we need to think in 3-D. This isn’t a CD. It’s a sphere. A steel ball, with an infinate number of rivulets running from the core perfectly to it’s smooth surface. Each rivulet is a timeline. We could travel to these, using our machine, if only we could free it of it’s 1-D operation. And free ourselves of thinking we’re ‘the’ timeline. We’re one of infinate number of times. Don’t be so timeist. Bastard.

–Tim

Did I make sense? I’m sure you’ll correct me if I didn’t.

To answer a few questions: Yes, I’m a Creationist, but I believe in adaptation and natural selection. Shit may evolve somewhat, but God put us here in the first place. And I didn’t come from no monkeyoid ancestor. Yes, I believe in aliens. Why would “God’s Plan” be limited merely to one planet out of billions? Who says there’s no gold-based Pracktrakerons living on Practera? I say we’re here to live on Earth until it is time for us to explore the universe, and the second coming will not be until the Universe is ‘conquered’ by a conglomeration of all intelligent species inhabiting it. I’m not a Bible thumper. And I’m a nice guy. And I believe in what I’ve posted above about alternate realities, to an extent. Belief in the theory and belief that the theory is fact is two different things.

We are the children of the Eighties. We are not the first “lost generation” nor today’s lost generation; in fact, we think we know just where we stand - or are discovering it as we speak.

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Homer–

Ever see the show Sliders? :slight_smile:

There isn’t anything wrong with playing around with ideas like that. They don’t really contradict anything we know. There just also isn’t any reason to expect that such a senario is real. Ideas like that can be fun to play with, and are a fertile ground for SF plots.

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Oy.

Sticks and stones, people. For a group that is based on the frank exchange of ideas, you certainly are rabid with people of opposing viewpoints. Howe’er, you still have not gotten one iota of what I have been saying. So, here it goes, one more time, with feeling…

Did you, er, read the “previous three posts?” Because I think I’ve made it rather clear what time is.

Gravity. Duh.

Now that’s just plain mean.

And I get asked about my physics background? Let me see…what one thing about physics does everybody know? “An object at rest stays at rest unless acted upon by an outside force.”
So it would seem to me, Einstein, that time has exactly zero to do with it. Unless the force in question is time, but we all know that that’s not true. I’ve never heard of time moving anything all by its lonesome.
Here’s the bottome line: All that exists is the present. The concepts of “before” and “after” exist. If that’s what you mean by “time,” then yes, “time exists.” Everything else: days, years, minutes, nanoseconds, “Plank time”…all invented by humans. Speaking of which:

That’s precisely what it is. By the way, “something that we made up because we saw it in our environment” is an oxymoron. Think about it. But I know what you meant, and I tend to disagree.
I know that I’m just going to be ridiculed again, and that you people may never understand what it is that I’m saying, and that you will call me arrogant for disagreeing with you (all you Psych 101 peeps know what THAT means…). But I don’t care. I’m just givin’ you the straight dope.

The IQ of a group is equal to the IQ of the dumbest member divided by the number of people in the group.

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K, Rousseau–

You aren’t going to get insults from me. You’re just gonna get my honest attempt to help you see the other side here

Planck time is just as solid of a physics concept as mass, Rousseau.

But seriously, answer me this. Do you belive that space has no reality beyond our perception in the same way that you feel that time has no reality beyond our perception?

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Rousseau, the fact that people disagree with you does not mean that they failed to read your posts; it does not mean that they fail to understand what you say; it does not mean that they are persecuting you for some reason.

I have read your posts.
I completely understand what you are saying.
I have absolutely no motivation to disparage your ideas or undermine your credibility.
Yet I say to you that you are incorrect.

The concept of time is not just a function of perception or imagination. It is a real phenomenon, a property of the universe, which behaves and is structured in ways that we can observe. Physical theory and experimentation has proven this, repeatedly and often.

Once again: I’m not persecuting you, so there’s no need to get upset. I am merely informing you that your statements on this topic are incorrect.

Laugh hard; it’s a long way to the bank.

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Oh, and PS:

Yes, days, years and minutes were all invented by man. So were kilograms, pounds, and meters. These are all just units. Would you use this same perspective to argue that mass, force and distance are nothing more than our perception?

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And P.S. again. (Geez, I’m so bad about this)

Planck time was not invented by humans. It was discovered by humans. It was discovered in the same way that the speed of light or pi was discovered. If an alien race studied physics as we do in an environment that had none of our commonly chosed cycles for time, they would discover Planck time as the same value that we did.

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Ok, just so we know the the backgrounds involved, so we can assign weight to their statements… UndeadDude = physics major in college… Rousseau = ?

–
O p a l C a t
www.opalcat.com

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I have decided to point out that the way we measure force is by how much it can accelerate a certain mass. The way we measure acceleration is by how much velocity it produces in a certain time. The way we measure velocity is by how much distance the object in question covers in a certain time.

I don’t think it will do much good, though.

Modest? You bet I’m modest! I am the queen of modesty!