# Yet more proof Fox News is a literal danger to the country (as if we needed more examples) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 23, 2020, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-more-proof-fox-news-is-a-literal-danger-to-the-country-as-if-we-needed-more-examples/852429 "2020-04-23T12:43:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2020, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-more-proof-fox-news-is-a-literal-danger-to-the-country-as-if-we-needed-more-examples/852429/21 "2020-04-23T20:30:29Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Fox news is not 100% protected by the Bill of Rights. It is broadcast, and thus comes under FCC regulations. > > The FCC could revoke their license or fine them. This is not true. Fox News is a cable channel and is not licensed by the FCC. You should sue whoever told you differently. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2020, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-more-proof-fox-news-is-a-literal-danger-to-the-country-as-if-we-needed-more-examples/852429/22 "2020-04-23T20:34:01Z")
So, we have here a story that, even if we take it at face value, is comparing viewers of one Fox News show to viewers of another Fox News show. Right from the start, this can’t be used to show that Fox News is bad: It could just as well be interpreted to mean that Fox News host Tucker Carlson is doing a really good job. And that’s even if we take the study at face value. The only possible confounding variable they can think of is sunset times? Really? How about average age of the viewers, urban vs. rural, male vs. female, education level, economic status? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2020, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-more-proof-fox-news-is-a-literal-danger-to-the-country-as-if-we-needed-more-examples/852429/23 "2020-04-23T20:34:59Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > IIRC newspapers and other media and their staff had 1st Amendment freedom of _press_ protection \*before \*Citizens United. Indeed. And back in the day when they respected that. We know that free speech is not a catch-all blanket to say whatever you want (see slander/libel, incitement to violence and so on). I do not think it is amiss to demand something more from mega-media when it comes to informing the public. They have a special role in society and I think the citizens are well within their right to demand their news sources relay an objective truth as near as possible. It may seem crazy but other countries manage this and still have free speech (see: Canada). I am hard pressed to defend “free speech” when it costs thousands of lives. All we need to demand is honest reporting about the illness and not politically motivated/business motivated wrong information. I have no desire to trash free speech. I do have a desire for more accountability for what you say/publish. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2020, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-more-proof-fox-news-is-a-literal-danger-to-the-country-as-if-we-needed-more-examples/852429/24 "2020-04-23T20:41:49Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > So, we have here a story that, even if we take it at face value, is comparing viewers of one Fox News show to viewers of another Fox News show. Right from the start, this can’t be used to show that Fox News is bad: It could just as well be interpreted to mean that Fox News host Tucker Carlson is doing a really good job. > > And that’s even if we take the study at face value. The only possible confounding variable they can think of is sunset times? Really? How about average age of the viewers, urban vs. rural, male vs. female, education level, economic status? I am pretty familiar with the University of Chicago. One of the best universities on the planet (say top ten(ish)). If you think their methodology is so fucked…well go for it. Take down the institution or, at least, get them to disown these researchers as hacks. If you’ve got the evidence. Make a name for yourself spanking the University of Chicago for allowing crap research. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2020, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-more-proof-fox-news-is-a-literal-danger-to-the-country-as-if-we-needed-more-examples/852429/25 "2020-04-23T20:53:57Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > This is not true. Fox News is a cable channel and is not licensed by the FCC. You should sue whoever told you differently. Yes and no: > **[Did Fox News Change Its Accreditation from 'News' to 'Entertainment'?](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/fox-news-entertainment-switch/)** > > There's a lot to unfold in this meme, including the fact that Fox News (and CNN and MSNBC) are not "accredited news stations" to begin with. _The Fox Broadcasting Company is an over-the-air television network licensed by the FCC. This is the station where you find programming such as “The Simpsons. The Fox News Network is a cable news channel. The latter is where you’d find programming such as “Fox & Friends” and “Hannity.” While the FCC licenses and regulates over-the-air broadcasts, it has no authority over cable news channels._ Fox has both broadcast and cable news shows. They can and do lie their asses off on the cable. They do that same for broadcast, but there they can be sanctioned. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2020, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-more-proof-fox-news-is-a-literal-danger-to-the-country-as-if-we-needed-more-examples/852429/26 "2020-04-23T21:07:33Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Yes and no: > > [Did Fox News Change Its Accreditation from 'News' to 'Entertainment'? | Snopes.com](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/fox-news-entertainment-switch/) > _The Fox Broadcasting Company is an over-the-air television network licensed by the FCC. This is the station where you find programming such as “The Simpsons. The Fox News Network is a cable news channel. The latter is where you’d find programming such as “Fox & Friends” and “Hannity.” While the FCC licenses and regulates over-the-air broadcasts, it has no authority over cable news channels._ > > Fox has both broadcast and cable news shows. They can and do lie their asses off on the cable. They do that same for broadcast, but there they can be sanctioned. So either you think Fox should be sanctioned because of the Simpsons’ lies, or they should be punished for something said on another channel? ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2020, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-more-proof-fox-news-is-a-literal-danger-to-the-country-as-if-we-needed-more-examples/852429/27 "2020-04-23T21:19:39Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > There have been plenty of “Fox News Sucks” threads and here is one more. They are, literally, making the pandemic worse. And not just in a “feels like it” sort of way but provably so. > > They should be sued into oblivion and this study is a good start to build that case. > > I am all for free speech but surely when you aid in the deaths of thousands maybe free speech should not be a protection. The Trump supporting Faux News Fool at work almost adversarially refuses to respect social distancing guidelines. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2020, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-more-proof-fox-news-is-a-literal-danger-to-the-country-as-if-we-needed-more-examples/852429/28 "2020-04-23T21:52:16Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > So either you think Fox should be sanctioned because of the Simpsons’ lies, or they should be punished for something said on another channel? They lie on their broadcast channel as well. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2020, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-more-proof-fox-news-is-a-literal-danger-to-the-country-as-if-we-needed-more-examples/852429/29 "2020-04-23T23:22:49Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > If Republicans are ignoring the quarantine and running around spreading the virus, that will raise infection rates among the population as a whole, not just among Republicans. The virus doesnt care what your political views are. If Republicans (the subset that worships Fox News, or at least prefers Hannity over Carlson) accepted the word of their Masters and engaged in risky lifestyle decisions that far smarter Democrats avoided, then those Republicans should logically experience higher rates of coronavirus infection and death. After all, recent measles outbreaks have shown that most cases occurred among unvaccinated children, whose parents made risky lifestyle decisions for them. I don’t think the intrepid researchers cited in the OP have quite triangulated the evidence to back their claims, despite a “plausibly orthogonal” mindset. _Show me where the lines can reconnect And I will parallelogram you to the ground_ - The Minus Five ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2020, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-more-proof-fox-news-is-a-literal-danger-to-the-country-as-if-we-needed-more-examples/852429/30 "2020-04-23T23:31:22Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I am pretty familiar with the University of Chicago. One of the best universities on the planet (say top ten(ish)). This sounds a bit argument-from-authorityish. Research (using the term loosely in this case) stands on its own merits. The University of Chicago [has been embarrassed before](https://news.uchicago.edu/story/religious-upbringing-associated-less-altruism-study-finds) by research reinforcing a particular mindset. ---
**Author:** ![RioRico](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f04885/32.png) [@RioRico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RioRico)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2020, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-more-proof-fox-news-is-a-literal-danger-to-the-country-as-if-we-needed-more-examples/852429/31 "2020-04-24T00:45:56Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Viruses don’t read the constitution. You’re assuming that some political advisors and pundits are not themselves pathogens. > [@DrDeth](#): > > The FCC could revoke their license or fine them. Fox or any other US network is not licensed; individual over-the-air broadcast outlets are licensed, revocable for failing to abide by FCC rules. WFUX-TV can be sanctioned - Fox can’t - but WFUX-TV will likely get away with almost any shoddy crap because “public interest” guidelines are no longer enforced. > [@DrDeth](#): > > [Did Fox News Change Its Accreditation from 'News' to 'Entertainment'? | Snopes.com](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/fox-news-entertainment-switch/) > _…While the FCC licenses and regulates over-the-air broadcasts, it has no authority over cable news channels._ FCC _does_ have jurisdiction over all wireless or wired communications in the US, but mostly technically, not for content. Any commercial device capable of generating EMF must meet technical requirements - see notes stuck on TV remotes, phones, fans, etc. But FCC doesn’t care if you mutter threats or obscenities on your iPhone or podcast. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2020, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-more-proof-fox-news-is-a-literal-danger-to-the-country-as-if-we-needed-more-examples/852429/32 "2020-04-24T01:38:38Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > If Republicans (the subset that worships Fox News, or at least prefers Hannity over Carlson) accepted the word of their Masters and engaged in risky lifestyle decisions that far smarter Democrats avoided, then those Republicans should logically experience higher rates of coronavirus infection and death . . . Would that it were so. But CV-19 in the US still has a reproduction rate in excess of 1 - that is to say, each person infected with CV-19 infects more than one other person besides themselves. And those who refuse to practice basic protective measures will infect more people than those who don’t. So the idiots who are influenced by Fox are a danger not only to themselves but, to a greater degree, to their families, friends, co-wokers, neighbours and the people they encounter in daily life. And there is no reason to expect _them_ to be Foxists as well. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2020, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-more-proof-fox-news-is-a-literal-danger-to-the-country-as-if-we-needed-more-examples/852429/33 "2020-04-24T13:16:09Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I am pretty familiar with the University of Chicago. One of the best universities on the planet (say top ten(ish)). > > If you think their methodology is so fucked…well go for it. Take down the institution or, at least, get them to disown these researchers as hacks. > > If you’ve got the evidence. Make a name for yourself spanking the University of Chicago for allowing crap research. One bad study is not going to take down a university or otherwise there would be no universities. If the study is pristine and everything is perfect with the various regression and there are no Everest regressions, the study says nothing about Fox News as an organization because it does not compare viewers with a control group only viewers of two shows on the network. As someone who like Carlson more than Hannity it makes sense to me that viewers of his show are better informed. However, since Fox News viewers are [better informed](https://www.people-press.org/2010/09/12/section-4-who-is-listening-watching-reading-and-why/) than the general public it would not surprise me if Hannity viewers were more likely to be cautious than nonFox news viewers. This study did not examine that, so people are leaping to a conclusion for a question that this study did not ask. ---
**Author:** ![etasyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9f8e36/32.png) [@etasyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etasyde)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2020, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-more-proof-fox-news-is-a-literal-danger-to-the-country-as-if-we-needed-more-examples/852429/34 "2020-04-24T13:25:16Z")
nm, misread quote. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2020, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-more-proof-fox-news-is-a-literal-danger-to-the-country-as-if-we-needed-more-examples/852429/35 "2020-04-24T14:40:09Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > … However, since Fox News viewers are [better informed](https://www.people-press.org/2010/09/12/section-4-who-is-listening-watching-reading-and-why/) than the general public it would not surprise me if Hannity viewers were more likely to be cautious than nonFox news viewers. … Lest anyone else be tempted to waste a click on this claim, it’s a 2010 report in which “better informed” was based on correct answers to 4 questions. > [@](#): > > People were asked which party currently controls the House of Representatives (Democrats), to identify the post held by Eric Holder (U.S. attorney general), which company is run by Steve Jobs (Apple) and which country has an active volcano that disrupted international air travel earlier this year (Iceland). 31% of Hannity viewers got all answers correct, 30% of Maddow viewers, 29% of O’Reilly viewers. 23% of Glen Beck viewers. Among more general categories, 51% of Wall St. Journal readers got all answers correct, 42% of NY Times readers, 32% of NPR viewers, 22% of USA Today readers, 20% of Fox News viewers. Yes, I suppose the numbers might be worked to support **puddleglum** ’s claim … especially if the location of that volcano is of key importance in American civics. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2020, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-more-proof-fox-news-is-a-literal-danger-to-the-country-as-if-we-needed-more-examples/852429/36 "2020-04-24T14:57:10Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Indeed. And back in the day when they respected that. > … > I do not think it is amiss to demand something more from mega-media when it comes to informing the public. They have a special role in society and I think the citizens are well within their right to demand their news sources relay an objective truth as near as possible. > … > All we need to demand is honest reporting about the illness and not politically motivated/business motivated wrong information. > > I have no desire to trash free speech. I do have a desire for more accountability for what you say/publish. \*That \*became a market problem ever since the “fairness doctrine” went into the bin (which was \*also \*well before Citizens United) which seems to be what you really are seeking to reestablish (and you are by no means alone!) not just for broadcast but for electronic Big Media in general. (BTW print journalism historically could be one-sided partisan all along as long as not outright libel or incitation.) But yes, citizens should seek to hold their media accountable. Either in the market or in court. Liberty after all is not unfettered license. That the newscaster will raise a Freedom of Press defense does not mean that they will automatically succeed. Now, sure, it’s tough, but it should be. So ISTM the argument becomes if things are so far much worse and the stakes are so far higher that it requires making it easier to challenge or penalize a false or bad-faith publication. OTOH remember it was the current WH occupant who in his campaign spoke of relaxing the libel laws so I have my reservations of what group of society is the one who stands more ready to hit the courts to make one outlet or another shut up. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2020, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-more-proof-fox-news-is-a-literal-danger-to-the-country-as-if-we-needed-more-examples/852429/37 "2020-04-24T15:19:18Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > One bad study is not going to take down a university or otherwise there would be no universities. > If the study is pristine and everything is perfect with the various regression and there are no Everest regressions, the study says nothing about Fox News as an organization because it does not compare viewers with a control group only viewers of two shows on the network. As someone who like Carlson more than Hannity it makes sense to me that viewers of his show are better informed. > > However, since Fox News viewers are [better informed](https://www.people-press.org/2010/09/12/section-4-who-is-listening-watching-reading-and-why/) than the general public it would not surprise me if Hannity viewers were more likely to be cautious than nonFox news viewers. This study did not examine that, so people are leaping to a conclusion for a question that this study did not ask. I read through your link and found nothing to support your assertion that fox news viewers are better informed. I did a control+f search on your link for the word “informed” and got 0 hits. Are you referring to something specific on that page, or are you just not very well informed? ---
**Author:** ![etasyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9f8e36/32.png) [@etasyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etasyde)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2020, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-more-proof-fox-news-is-a-literal-danger-to-the-country-as-if-we-needed-more-examples/852429/38 "2020-04-24T15:31:13Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > I read through your link and found nothing to support your assertion that fox news viewers are better informed. I did a control+f search on your link for the word “informed” and got 0 hits. Are you referring to something specific on that page, or are you just not very well informed? Yall fell for the same trap I did, which is why I quickly revised my earlier post. He’s right. Reread the studies, or just glance over the charts. The **general population** is the one in red. Fox news is better than the general population, but much worse than almost any other outlet. He only made the claim that fox was better than the general population, and that much is true. Apparently, most of the population consumes no news _at all_. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2020, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-more-proof-fox-news-is-a-literal-danger-to-the-country-as-if-we-needed-more-examples/852429/39 "2020-04-24T15:32:42Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > There have been plenty of “Fox News Sucks” threads and here is one more. They are, literally, making the pandemic worse. And not just in a “feels like it” sort of way but provably so. > > They should be sued into oblivion and this study is a good start to build that case. > > I am all for free speech but surely when you aid in the deaths of thousands maybe free speech should not be a protection. And what, exactly, is your cause of action? What are the elements of that claim, and how will you prove them? Or are you just hand waving actual legal requirements the same way you handwave the First Amendment? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2020, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-more-proof-fox-news-is-a-literal-danger-to-the-country-as-if-we-needed-more-examples/852429/40 "2020-04-24T22:37:56Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > New York state went for Hillary in 2016. New York state was hit harder by COVID-19 than most other states. Therefore, we should make it illegal to vote. > > Regards, > Shodan Well the Mayor of New York did tell his subjects to go out and mingle with the masses in order to celebrate the Chinese New Year. Maybe he should have checked with Carlson first. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-more-proof-fox-news-is-a-literal-danger-to-the-country-as-if-we-needed-more-examples/852429.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yet-more-proof-fox-news-is-a-literal-danger-to-the-country-as-if-we-needed-more-examples/852429.md?page=3)