# Yglesias and Third Way: a blog controversy **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 22, 2008, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yglesias-and-third-way-a-blog-controversy/478286 "2008-12-22T07:43:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yglesias-and-third-way-a-blog-controversy/478286/1 "2008-12-22T07:43:54Z")
A controversy at one of my favorite blogs: The incident started with this [post](http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/archives/2008/12/the_new_moderate.php)by Yglesias about a think-tank called Third Way: > [@](#): > > Third Way is a neat organization — I used to work across the hall from them. And they do a lot of clever messaging stuff that a lot of candidates find very useful. But their domestic policy agenda is hyper-timid incrementalist bullshit. There are a variety of issues that they have nothing whatsoever to say on, and what policy ideas they do have are laughable in comparison to the scale of the problems they allegedly address. Which is fine, because Third Way isn’t really a “public policy think tank” at all, it’s a messaging and political tactics outfit. Apparently this was too much for the powers at CAP where Yglesias works and on Sunday night there was this [post](http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/archives/2008/12/a_special_note_re_third_way.php)on his blog written by the acting CEO: > [@](#): > > This is Jennifer Palmieri, acting CEO of the Center for American Progess Action Fund. > > Most readers know that the views expressed on Matt’s blog are his own and don’t always reflect the views of the Center for American Progress Action Fund. Such is the case with regard to Matt’s comments about Third Way. Our institution has partnered with Third Way on a number of important projects - including a homeland security transition project - and have a great deal of respect for their critical thinking and excellent work product. They are key leaders in the progressive movement and we look forward to working with them in the future. I don’t know what Palmieri hoped to achieve but quite predictably her post has drawn forth an avalanche of criticism with 250+ comments on the blog as of now. It’s been linked to on Kos and Atrios and looks like erupting into a full-fledged blogstorm. It’s not a big issue but it nicely illustrates the cosy relationship that exists between various DC insider outfits which tends to mute criticism. It also illustrates how clueless these insiders often are about how the blogosphere works. If Palmieri hadn’t intervened most people would have forgotten the original post. Now vastly more people will have read it and many will find that their opinion of both Third Way and CAP stands diminished. It will be interesting to see how Yglesias handles the whole thing. ---
**Author:** ![hawthorne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@hawthorne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hawthorne)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yglesias-and-third-way-a-blog-controversy/478286/2 "2008-12-22T11:34:59Z")
Hilarious. Palmieri’s post is perfect in its ineptness. Her work product is likely to transition out of politics going forward. ---
**Author:** ![Discordia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Discordia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Discordia)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yglesias-and-third-way-a-blog-controversy/478286/3 "2008-12-22T12:04:27Z")
Gotta love how these people have no clue how blogs or the internet in general work. > [@Someone there](#): > > Fuck off Palmieri. If we were interested in what you thought, we’d read it on your own blog. Jeez. Yessss. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yglesias-and-third-way-a-blog-controversy/478286/4 "2008-12-22T14:44:47Z")
Palmieri is under consideration for a position at the DoD. I wonder how well that’s going to go after this splendid demonstration of level-headed editorial privilege? It should be noted that Matt’s original [Third Way post](http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/archives/2008/12/the_new_moderate.php) has 16 comments. In other words, no one was even reading it. It would have faded into the primordial ooze of blogdom without a bit of controversy. But it appears that someone at Third Way DID read it and got a hair up their butt about it, and picked up the phone. And Palmieri went ahead and basically exploded the whole thing into blogdom legend. This is a classic case of “Don’t call attention to things you don’t want paid attention to”. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yglesias-and-third-way-a-blog-controversy/478286/5 "2008-12-22T15:32:24Z")
Didn’t she have to say that, though? If this guy is an employee of the Center of American Progress and posting editorials on their website, then that makes him a spokesman for the CAP, right? So, if he’s saying things, isn’t that assumed to be the position of the group he’s writing for? ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yglesias-and-third-way-a-blog-controversy/478286/6 "2008-12-22T15:34:11Z")
Couldn’t she have just asked him to make clear that he was speaking only for himself? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yglesias-and-third-way-a-blog-controversy/478286/7 "2008-12-22T15:52:29Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Didn’t she have to say that, though? If this guy is an employee of the Center of American Progress and posting editorials on their website, then that makes him a spokesman for the CAP, right? So, if he’s saying things, isn’t that assumed to be the position of the group he’s writing for? CAP sponsors his blog, but the blog is HIS blog. It’s called “Yglesias”. He is the blogger. It’s pretty much understood that a blog isn’t a traditional editorial. But the bigger picture here is that this is the executive officer of CAP making a CYA entry in someone else’s blog. It has electrified the issue 1000x more than just leaving well enough alone would have. If Palmieri was TRYING to make this a cause celebre and attract all the attention in the world to it, she did exactly what she should have done. If she was trying to deflect attention away from CAP over Matt’s words, she just had an epic fail. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yglesias-and-third-way-a-blog-controversy/478286/8 "2008-12-22T16:38:18Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > CAP sponsors his blog, but the blog is HIS blog. It’s called “Yglesias”. He is the blogger. It’s pretty much understood that a blog isn’t a traditional editorial. But CAP isn’t like LiveJournal, is it? I mean, you can’t just go on CAP and set up a blog there. And the CAP pays him for his work, I believe. It’s his blog in that he writes it, of course. And I agree that the executive officer of CAP acted inartfully, but I can also understand why she didn’t want to just not do anything. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yglesias-and-third-way-a-blog-controversy/478286/9 "2008-12-22T16:50:39Z")
If Palmieri does get that DOD PR job let’s hope she learns something about the [Streisand effect](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect). The fact is that the netroots are no longer some marginal bloggers with no influence. They are now a major constituency in the Democratic party who provide money, volunteers and ideas. You could make a strong case that without the netroots Obama wouldn’t have beaten Hillary and therefore wouldn’t be president-elect. Some of the bloggers who have commented on this issue include Berkeley economist Brad de Long and Brendan Nyhan (who is doing his Phd in Political Science at Duke): IOW the kind of people who are and will be part of the policy community that think-tanks aim to influence. Palmieri’s silly post has damaged the reputations of the CAP, Third Way and herself with perhaps millions of blog readers in the space of less than a day. Quite a feat for [someone](http://www.politico.com/arena/bio/jennifer_palmieri.html)who is basically a PR person. ``` Meanwhile poor Yglesias is keeping mum about the whole thing and getting grief from his commenters. ``` ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yglesias-and-third-way-a-blog-controversy/478286/10 "2008-12-22T17:01:11Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > But CAP isn’t like LiveJournal, is it? I mean, you can’t just go on CAP and set up a blog there. And the CAP pays him for his work, I believe. It’s his blog in that he writes it, of course. > > And I agree that the executive officer of CAP acted inartfully, but I can also understand why she didn’t want to just not do anything. Actually I am not sure why she couldn’t just let it go. I bet the CAP has a relationship with a vast range of people and institutions on the Democratic side. Are they going to jump in the blog every time Yglesias criticizes one of them? They should just put in a standard disclaimer on the blog saying that Yglesias doesn’t necessarily represent the views of CAP and be done with it. ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yglesias-and-third-way-a-blog-controversy/478286/11 "2008-12-23T01:24:40Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > Couldn’t she have just asked him to make clear that he was speaking only for himself? I’m with Ezra Klein on this – you’d rather the bigwigs at CAP called Yglesias on the carpet internally and gave him editorial guidelines in secret which we’d never know about? Of course not – this was somewhat hamhanded, but without doubt the best possible solution. Yglesias, it appears, is just as free as he was a week ago to call Third Way hypertimid incrementalists, and everyone knows he isn’t an official spokesman for CAP. And people who comment on blogs are proven to be chickenlittles yet again. (And yes, that includes this semi-regular commentor on Yglesias’ blog.) –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2008, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yglesias-and-third-way-a-blog-controversy/478286/12 "2008-12-24T02:21:36Z")
> [@Cliffy](#): > > I’m with Ezra Klein on this – you’d rather the bigwigs at CAP called Yglesias on the carpet internally and gave him editorial guidelines in secret which we’d never know about? Of course not – this was somewhat hamhanded, but without doubt the best possible solution. The best possible solution was for CAP to not say “how high?” when Third Way asked it to jump. But this was the second-best solution. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2008, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yglesias-and-third-way-a-blog-controversy/478286/13 "2008-12-24T02:24:17Z")
And then there’s [this](http://ta-nehisicoates.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/12/hold_on_i_hear_somebody_coming.php), which appeared in Ta-Nehisi Coates’ blog at _The Atlantic Monthly_: > [@](#): > > This is James Bennet, editor of The Atlantic. > > Most readers know that the views expressed on Ta-Nehisi’s blog are his own and don’t always reflect the views of The Atlantic. Such is the case with regard to Ta-Nehisi’s “analysis” of the Dallas Cowboys and the Washington Redskins. Our institution has partnered with the Redskins, and Daniel Snyder, on a number of projects, and we have a great deal of respect for Snyder’s, uhm, personnel moves. We at The Atlantic do not take sides in the ongoing dispute between that asshole Jerry Jones’s Cowgirls and the winning machine built by Daniel Snyder. The Redskins are historic leaders in the sports world, and Dan Snyder may be the greatest owner in history. We look forward to box seats in the future. Sweet. ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2008, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yglesias-and-third-way-a-blog-controversy/478286/14 "2008-12-24T02:38:47Z")
I have no idea what Third Way or CAP are, or who this Yglesias person is. I believe that in Palmieri’s position, I would (1) never host an employee’s blog, (2) discipline any employee who made disparaging comments about a business partner in any public forum, (3) fire such employee if possible, (4) make damn sure that my business partners and everyone else knew that Mr. Asshole Blogger was speaking only for himself. Palmieri did her job. That post is so mild you could feed it to baby cows. What’s the problem again? ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2008, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yglesias-and-third-way-a-blog-controversy/478286/15 "2008-12-24T02:44:40Z")
> [@Nametag](#): > > I have no idea what Third Way or CAP are, or who this Yglesias person is. I believe that in Palmieri’s position, I would (1) never host an employee’s blog, (2) discipline any employee who made disparaging comments about a business partner in any public forum, (3) fire such employee if possible, (4) make damn sure that my business partners and everyone else knew that Mr. Asshole Blogger was speaking only for himself. > > Palmieri did her job. That post is so mild you could feed it to baby cows. What’s the problem again? The problem is that a small comment in a little known blog is now all over the internet. If they had done nothing then 99.999999% of the world would go on having no idea what Third Way or CAP or yglesias is, and now because of her comment this is now a huge deal. It seemed pretty clear cut to me, its like solving an embarrassing problem by screaming about it at the top of your lungs to everyone who can hear. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2008, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yglesias-and-third-way-a-blog-controversy/478286/16 "2008-12-24T02:54:01Z")
Maybe I’m just a bit slow right now, but I don’t quite understand why Palmieri’s post is so inflammatory. She’s just saying that Yglesias is only speaking for himself, not his employers. Is there some other disciplinary thing going on here that’s not mentioned in the OP? Why is that so objectionable? ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2008, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yglesias-and-third-way-a-blog-controversy/478286/17 "2008-12-24T02:57:19Z")
I don’t get what the controversy is: it’s SOP ass-covering procedure to say “The views expressed here do not necessarily reflect our opinion”. She didn’t yank his blog, she didn’t censor him, as far as we know, she didn’t make him promise to recant or not discuss it further, she just tossed a boilerplate disclaimer into his blog. So? I honestly have no idea what could prompt anything resembling outrage. Anyone able to explain what I’m not seeing here? Fenris :: shakes fist at **Miller**! Curse you, you fast-posting scoundrel! :: ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2008, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yglesias-and-third-way-a-blog-controversy/478286/18 "2008-12-24T03:50:42Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > I don’t get what the controversy is: it’s SOP ass-covering procedure to say “The views expressed here do not necessarily reflect our opinion”. > > She didn’t yank his blog, she didn’t censor him, as far as we know, she didn’t make him promise to recant or not discuss it further, she just tossed a boilerplate disclaimer into his blog. > > So? I honestly have no idea what could prompt anything resembling outrage. Anyone able to explain what I’m not seeing here? > > Fenris > > :: shakes fist at **Miller**! Curse you, you fast-posting scoundrel! :: Actually, having read some more of the verbiage this has created, I’ll add: Palmieri didn’t insert anything. She wrote a statement and asked Yglesias to post it in his blog. If Mr. I R A Jernulist had properly labeled this as quoted material, instead of allowing his rabid fans to think she hijacked his blog, , there’d be a lot less fuss. And I still can’t figure out why these guys are hosting blogs. ---
**Author:** ![hansel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6bbea6/32.png) [@hansel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hansel)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2008, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yglesias-and-third-way-a-blog-controversy/478286/19 "2008-12-24T04:06:06Z")
> [@Nametag](#): > > And I still can’t figure out why these guys are hosting blogs. Because they’re a think tank, and they want to demonstrate that they have thinkers, and one way to do that is to pay thinkers like Yglesias to blog. This isn’t a case of a CAP employee having a blog; it’s a case of a blogger being paid by CAP to do his thing, _with editorial independence_. It buys them cred with the progressive side of the spectrum to support progressive bloggers. Really, the screwup here is Matt’s: when he posted Palmieri’s CYA note, he should’ve done so explicitly noting that he was doing it on request. A lot of the initial flames were fanned by outraged blogospherians shrieking about Palmieri “hijacking” Yglesias’s blog to do damage control. Better would have been to have Yglesias write the “This is just my opinion, not CAP’s” post himself. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2008, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yglesias-and-third-way-a-blog-controversy/478286/20 "2008-12-24T06:15:09Z")
The basic problem is not the disclaimer itself but that Palmieri felt the need to insert it in the blog specifically in response to a post critical of Third Way and then go on to say what a wonderful organization Third Way was. No one would have a problem if CAP put in a general disclaimer in the corner somewhere on the blog. ``` As it stands now, the episode obviously undercuts Yglesias's authority and credibility. How can it not when your boss contradicts you on your own blog? In the future you can bet that Yglesias will think twice about criticizing Third Way or any organization working closely with CAP. This reduces the value of the blog to its many readers. Even apart from all this, as an objective fact the incident has triggered a huge response on the blogosphere, most of it highly critical of Palmieri. It has diminished the reputation of Third Way and CAP far more than the original post. In PR terms it's unquestionably been a fiasco. Not a good sign for someone looking for a PR job with the Pentagon. ``` The larger issue which I think is fascinating is how the Democratic establishment reacts to the increasing power of the netroots and comes to terms with the fact that the netroots doesn’t behave like the insiders they are used to working with. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yglesias-and-third-way-a-blog-controversy/478286.md?page=2)