# Ying and Yang **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 18, 2002, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ying-and-yang/132811 "2002-10-18T12:33:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Jinx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Jinx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jinx)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2002, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ying-and-yang/132811/1 "2002-10-18T12:33:27Z")
Does anyone know how the Eastern cultures justify this idea of such a balance in the world? Do we really find conclusive evidence that good and evil so perfectly counterbalanced? Evil definitely has an upper hand, in general. And, if the unpunished evil ever does get caught and punished, it is often far too late. Perhaps the concept of ying and yang is theoretically the ideal? And, we must assume that, if all evil is eventually punished, then eventually (at infinity) all ying is balanced by all yang? Does any SDoper know more about this, and how Eastern culture explains this concept of ying and yang? - Jinx ---
**Author:** ![jovan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/0ea827/32.png) [@jovan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jovan)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2002, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ying-and-yang/132811/2 "2002-10-18T13:20:45Z")
Yin and Yang and Taoist concepts and I know very little about Taoism. Suffice to say, though, that Eastern and Western concepts rarely mingle all that well. “Good” and “Evil” are essentially products of a certain Judeo-Christian line of thought. As I understand Yin and Yang, it’s more a description of opposite aspects of the same phenomenon. Take hot and cold, or light and dark. AFAIK, you’re right about balance. In traditional Chinese medicine, illnesses are caused by the imballance of Yin and Yang elements. The same idea of balance is also very important in Chinese cuisine. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2002, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ying-and-yang/132811/3 "2002-10-18T13:27:57Z")
and Tawianese acrobats ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2002, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ying-and-yang/132811/4 "2002-10-18T13:38:39Z")
> [@](#): > > Evil definitely has an upper hand, in general. Oh, thanks for clearing that up. Now all the philosophers and theologists can stop wasting their time on that issue. ---
**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2002, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ying-and-yang/132811/5 "2002-10-18T13:44:48Z")
Yin and Yang do not at all represent good and evil. Yin is considered passive, nurturing, soft, and containing aspects of the feminine. Yang is aggressive, hard, initiating, and contains aspects of the masculine. Check out Lao Tse’s Tao Te Ching (Pronounced Dow duh Jing) ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2002, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ying-and-yang/132811/6 "2002-10-18T14:23:13Z")
If evil had the upper hand, would the world(/universe?) still be here? - if there was an imbalance, would not the majority shareholding of evil lead to a situation that increased its foothold and caused a runaway spiral? ---
**Author:** ![photopat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e95f7d/32.png) [@photopat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/photopat)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2002, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ying-and-yang/132811/7 "2002-10-18T15:26:55Z")
I’ve always felt the T’aoists were on to something with regard to explaining some of life’s mysteries. The T’ao didn’t start off as a religion (although it did develop religious aspects over time) as much as a philosophy. The Yin/Yang concept is rooted in the notion of opposites that form a whole. If you look at a monad (the yin/yang symbol) you see that each half has a dot of the other color in it. This suggests that in terms of cycles, each part of the cycle contains the seed of the other, and also that, in order to recognize something for what it is you have to contrast it with it’s opposite. In other words, dark is only recognized as such by the absence of light, and vice versa. (think shadows) If you want to put it in terms of good/evil, bad things happen so we can see the good things. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2002, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ying-and-yang/132811/8 "2002-10-18T15:32:49Z")
I think it goes further than that. “Opposites create each other,” according to the Tao te Ching. What it is saying, I think, is that good _exists_ as a result of bad’s existing, and vice versa. Without evil, there is no good; without good, there is no evil. ---
**Author:** ![AntaresJB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c2a13f/32.png) [@AntaresJB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AntaresJB)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2002, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ying-and-yang/132811/9 "2002-10-18T15:33:45Z")
I don’t know much about this subject, but I work in the library at my university, and I checked out books to an Asian girl the other day who’s name actually was, I swear, “Yin Yang”. Anyone know if this is common, or if she just had really twisted parents? ---
**Author:** ![jovan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/0ea827/32.png) [@jovan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jovan)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2002, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ying-and-yang/132811/10 "2002-10-18T15:39:01Z")
> [@](#): > > “Opposites create each other,” according to the Tao te Ching. Yes, and that’s just about the only part of Taoism I’m pretty sure about. Think of it that way: If you define darkness as a low amount of light, you can also define light as a low amount of darkness. The consequence of this is that if there is _no_ light, there is no darkness either because darkness cannot be differenciated from anything. And vice versa of course. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Kentzel-Griffin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ccd318/32.png) [@John\_Kentzel-Griffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Kentzel-Griffin)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2002, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ying-and-yang/132811/11 "2002-10-18T15:39:43Z")
Off to Great Debates. **DrMatrix** - General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![kniz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@kniz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kniz)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2002, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ying-and-yang/132811/12 "2002-10-18T17:43:38Z")
From **The Prophet** by **Kahlil Gibran** > [@](#): > > Some of you say, “Joy is greater than > sorrow,” and others say, “Nay, sorrow > is the greater.” > But I say unto you, they are inseparable. > Together they come, and when one sits > alone with you at your board, remember that > the other is asleep upon your bed. > > ``` > Verily you are suspended like scales > between your sorrow and your joy. > Only when you are empty are you at > standstill and balanced. > When the treasure-keeper lifts you to > weigh his gold or his silver, needs must > your joy or your sorrow rise or fall. > > ``` ---
**Author:** ![kevlaw](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kevlaw/32/2281_2.png) [@kevlaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kevlaw)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2002, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ying-and-yang/132811/13 "2002-10-18T18:31:41Z")
From the Tao Te Ching at [http://www.edepot.com/tao4.html](http://www.edepot.com/tao4.html) > [@](#): > > When people see some things as beautiful, > other things become ugly. > When people see some things as good, > other things become bad. > > Being and non-being create each other. > Difficult and easy support each other. > Long and short define each other. > High and low depend on each other. > Before and after follow each other. In the yin yang, the dark side creates the light side and vice versa. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2002, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ying-and-yang/132811/14 "2002-10-19T15:58:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by KidCharlemagne \* > **Yin and Yang do not at all represent good and evil. Yin is considered passive, nurturing, soft, and containing aspects of the feminine. Yang is aggressive, hard, initiating, and contains aspects of the masculine.** Is that why a yin-yang symbol looks like a 69 ? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Soup\_du\_jour](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Soup\_du\_jour](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soup_du_jour)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2002, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ying-and-yang/132811/15 "2002-10-20T18:03:20Z")
As has been pointed out…yin and yang aren’t good and evil. They’re simply the two “essences” that the world is made of. One creates the other, and back again. It’s great! That said, all this talk about Taoism reminds me of the South Korean flag. It’s one of the best! ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2002, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ying-and-yang/132811/16 "2002-10-20T19:57:52Z")
tracer: I learned in Korea (back in 1978) that the local term for “69” is “Um-Yang” (which is what the Koreans call “Yin-Yang”). You just have to like a nation that has its symbol for 69 on the flag! ---
**Author:** ![Urban\_Ranger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Urban\_Ranger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urban_Ranger)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2002, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ying-and-yang/132811/17 "2002-10-21T11:54:39Z")
Daoist philosophy is on most levels much more sophisticated than Judeo-Christianity ones. Yin-Yang, as many others Dopers have pointed out, are not necessarily oppose numbers. In some ways they are, but in others, they are also complementary. If you look at the _Taichi_ (that’s the circle thing) you see it is not simply divided into two halves. This represents the dynamics of Yin and Yang shifting, converting to one another. In fact, both Yin and Yang are essential. Yang represents light, but Yang represents water, both are essential to life. Speaking of water, it embodies some of the major Daoist philosophical thoughts.