# Yo-Yo Ma: The Std Operating Procedure Sucks **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 26, 2009, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yo-yo-ma-the-std-operating-procedure-sucks/483073 "2009-01-26T17:21:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yo-yo-ma-the-std-operating-procedure-sucks/483073/21 "2009-01-26T18:05:04Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > I don’t buy that people prefer to be subject to deception. If it’s too cold for live music, just say, “Sorry, it’s too cold for live music.” Treat “people” like grownups, not like children who have to be distracted by mimes. > > I don’t watch the Olympics; I don’t watch any sporting events or their related musical presentations. I’ve never watched American Bandstand or any show like that. I listen to recordings and I watch (what seem to be) actual live performances on television. If what you’re saying is true and that any “live” performance on TV is likely to be faked, then I no longer have any interest in them. It sounds to me as though you’ve never actually watched a television, and so do not understand that this is, in fact, SOP. It’s hardly “deception” when the entire population of a country knows it is happening and understands it to be the norm. Don’t let that keep you from using emotionally charged language if you’d like. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yo-yo-ma-the-std-operating-procedure-sucks/483073/22 "2009-01-26T18:06:30Z")
> [@hobscrk777](#): > > I don’t think anyone involved is actively trying to perpetuate the illusion that the performance _was_ live. What else would you call it? From my perspective, watching my television, everything was made to look as if it were a live performance. This is what should have happened: “We would very much have liked to join in the celebration of this occasion by performing live. Unfortunately, our instruments will not function in the cold, so we will now play a recording that the four of us made yesterday. We hope you will enjoy it.” ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yo-yo-ma-the-std-operating-procedure-sucks/483073/23 "2009-01-26T18:08:39Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > What else would you call it? From my perspective, watching my television, everything was made to look as if it were a live performance. > > This is what should have happened: > > “We would very much have liked to join in the celebration of this occasion by performing live. Unfortunately, our instruments will not function in the cold, so we will now play a recording that the four of us made yesterday. We hope you will enjoy it.” It would be better for you to make an attempt to understand certain cultural norms before you go and make ridiculous demands on performers. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yo-yo-ma-the-std-operating-procedure-sucks/483073/24 "2009-01-26T18:09:45Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > It sounds to me as though you’ve never actually watched a television A ridiculous conclusion. I watch television all the time. I don’t, however, find myself in the position of watching recorded music that is made to look a like genuine live performance. > [@](#): > > and so do not understand that this is, in fact, SOP. That’s, in fact, the subject of this debate: The S.O.P. sucks. > [@](#): > > It’s hardly “deception” when the entire population of a country knows it is happening and understands it to be the norm. I would be very curious to see an actual survey of “the entire population” of the country to see what proportion actually knew, while it was going on, that it was recorded. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yo-yo-ma-the-std-operating-procedure-sucks/483073/25 "2009-01-26T18:12:43Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > A ridiculous conclusion. I watch television all the time. I don’t, however, find myself in the position of watching recorded music that is made to look a like genuine live performance. > > That’s, in fact, the subject of this debate: The S.O.P. sucks. > > I would be very curious to see an actual survey of “the entire population” of the country to see what proportion actually knew, while it was going on, that it was recorded. I’m not saying that they know every single instance, only that it is common & accepted practice. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yo-yo-ma-the-std-operating-procedure-sucks/483073/26 "2009-01-26T18:13:00Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > A couple of days ago I heard an interview with Yo-Yo Ma on N.P.R. in which he explained that the quartet performance at the inauguration amounted to a pantomime to a recording made the previous day. Mr. Ma seemed to be unapologetic about this fact. I think he should be embarrassed and should apologise for participating in the deception. > > I, for one, thought I was listening to a live performance and was impressed. Now, of course, if I had thought about it for a minute, I might wonder how one could play wood-bodied stringed instruments in 10-degree weather. I suppose I would guess that they had found a way to heat that small area. But I would not have guessed that Yo-Yo Ma and Itzhak Perlman were miming to a recording. > > Mr. Ma also said that this is standard operating procedure for the Marine Corps Band. Well, fuck. Don’t I hear the Marines constantly talking about their integrity and honor? How about this for integrity and honor: _If you’re not playing live, you don’t try to make it look like you’re playing live_. > > Now, you know what? That means that sometimes the weather will be too cold or rainy or whatever for live music, _which is the case now_. But people in charge of these ceremonies should rather say “We would have liked to present a live performance, but the weather doesn’t permit it, so we’re going to play a recording.” _Which is what they’re doing anyway_. Why don’t they just admit it up front and dispense with the Yo-Yo Mas and Marine Corps Bands miming to it? > > I’m pissed about this, but I prefer a real debate, so that’s why it’s not in the pit. We had some discussion about this in the Aretha Franklin thread. I thought it was real, too (using heaters) but was told by others in the thread that it was announced the next day that it was pre-recorded. It wasn’t a deception. That’s simply the way it goes when there are string instruments coupled with cold weather. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yo-yo-ma-the-std-operating-procedure-sucks/483073/27 "2009-01-26T18:13:06Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > It would be better for you to make an attempt to understand certain cultural norms Frankly, I consider this an insult. What am I, an alien from outer space? I was born in Illinois, grew up in Ohio, and now live in Virginia. I’ve watched television nearly every day of my life. Which part of the culture am I missing out on? Perhaps I’m missing out on the assumptions and professional practices of professional musicians. If that’s the case, then I think the problem is not my lack of understanding of cultural norms but rather the lack of communication between professional musicians and the wider culture. > [@](#): > > before you go and make ridiculous demands on performers. Which part is ridiculous, the being frank and honest part? ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yo-yo-ma-the-std-operating-procedure-sucks/483073/28 "2009-01-26T18:19:00Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > Frankly, I consider this an insult. What am I, an alien from outer space? I was born in Illinois, grew up in Ohio, and now live in Virginia. I’ve watched television nearly every day of my life. Which part of the culture am I missing out on? Perhaps I’m missing out on the assumptions and professional practices of professional musicians. If that’s the case, then I think the problem is not my lack of understanding of cultural norms but rather the lack of communication between professional musicians and the wider culture. > > Which part is ridiculous, the being frank and honest part? Blah blah blah. Like I said, you need to learn to better understand **certain** cultural norms before you make ridiculous demands on performers. Tom Hanks does not announce to the world at the beginning of a movie that he was faking that whole part about being stranded on a deserted island for four years. Yes, it is frank and honest, but unnecessary. ---
**Author:** ![hobscrk777](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a6a055/32.png) [@hobscrk777](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hobscrk777)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yo-yo-ma-the-std-operating-procedure-sucks/483073/29 "2009-01-26T18:21:14Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > I don’t buy that people prefer to be subject to deception. If it’s too cold for live music, just say, “Sorry, it’s too cold for live music.” Treat “people” like grownups, not like children who have to be distracted by mimes. > > I don’t watch the Olympics; I don’t watch any sporting events or their related musical presentations. I’ve never watched American Bandstand or any show like that. I listen to recordings and I watch (what seem to be) actual live performances on television. If what you’re saying is true and that any “live” performance on TV is likely to be faked, then I no longer have any interest in them. I’m sorry to hear that your appreciation for music is such that your enjoyment goes down substantially when it is not live. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yo-yo-ma-the-std-operating-procedure-sucks/483073/30 "2009-01-26T18:24:37Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > Blah blah blah. Like I said, you need to learn to better understand **certain** cultural norms before you make ridiculous demands on performers. Again, I ask, which part is ridiculous and what makes it ridiculous. And I think you’re mistaken about the norm here. I don’t believe I’m the only one who assumed that what looked like a live performance was actually a live performance. I don’t believe this is a “cultural norm” at all. If it is as common as you say, then I think it’s rather a standard practice of consumer deception on the part of (musical) service providers. > [@](#): > > Tom Hanks does not announce to the world at the beginning of a movie that he was faking that whole part about being stranded on a deserted island for four years. Yes, it is frank and honest, but unnecessary. Do you really see a live performance at a supposedly real event as being comparable to a scripted work of fiction? Why not save our new president and chief justice from the risk of freezing weather and instead sent out look-alikes of Obama and Roberts to perform the oath of office outdoors while the real Obama and Roberts do it privately indoors? What’s the difference so long as it looks real? ---
**Author:** ![hobscrk777](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a6a055/32.png) [@hobscrk777](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hobscrk777)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yo-yo-ma-the-std-operating-procedure-sucks/483073/31 "2009-01-26T18:27:11Z")
[quote=“acsenray, post:30, topic:483073”] [quote=“Labrador\_Deceiver, post:28, topic:483073”] Blah blah blah. Like I said, you need to learn to better understand **certain** cultural norms before you make ridiculous demands on performers. > [@](#): > > Again, I ask, which part is ridiculous and what makes it ridiculous. > > And I think you’re mistaken about the norm here. I don’t believe I’m the only one who assumed that what looked like a live performance was actually a live performance. > > Do you really see a live performance at a supposedly real event as being comparable to a scripted work of fiction? Why not save our new president and chief justice from the risk of freezing weather and instead sent out look-alikes of Obama and Roberts to perform the oath of office outdoors while the real Obama and Roberts do it privately indoors? What’s the difference so long as it looks real? There’s a very real difference difference in the analogy you’re attempting to draw. Musical instruments are extremely sensitive to minute changes in temperature and humidity. The human body is much more robust, and no one was going to be judging them (i.e. Obama and Roberts) based on their intonation. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yo-yo-ma-the-std-operating-procedure-sucks/483073/32 "2009-01-26T18:29:14Z")
> [@hobscrk777](#): > > I’m sorry to hear that your appreciation for music is such that your enjoyment goes down substantially when it is not live. And where exactly do you get that? In fact, I think I said “I listen to recordings.” I love recorded music, I listen to recordings daily. But I see no reason to watch someone miming to a recording – what’s the point? If I want to listen to a recording, I listen to a recording. But when I am viewing what seems to be a live performance, then it should be a genuine live performance; otherwise, it’s wasting my time. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yo-yo-ma-the-std-operating-procedure-sucks/483073/33 "2009-01-26T18:30:46Z")
I’m with the OP. Not a burning issue and not the biggest affront to human dignity and rationality out there. But mimes? We don’ need no stinkin’ mimes. I assume the OP and I suffered similar injuries to the forehead (from intense eye-rolling) over the Chinese sending CGI feeds during the opening ceremonies that neither of us watched. Again, not really that big a deal in the grand scheme of things, but ridiculous none the less. I suppose some water ballet in the Reflecting Pool would have been a nice touch, and with a nice feed and some chroma-keying could have been accomplished. Why didn’t they go that far? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yo-yo-ma-the-std-operating-procedure-sucks/483073/34 "2009-01-26T18:32:11Z")
> [@hobscrk777](#): > > There’s a very real difference difference in the analogy you’re attempting to draw. Musical instruments are extremely sensitive to minute changes in temperature and humidity. The human body is much more robust, and no one was going to be judging them (i.e. Obama and Roberts) based on their intonation. The deception is of exactly the same nature. It doesn’t matter why you’re doing, but if you’re going to do it, you shouldn’t do it in a deceptive manner. Miming is deception, unless you state explicitly “We’re going to mime our performance now.” Miming in a fictional movie is not deception, because the assumption is that everything is fake. ---
**Author:** ![hobscrk777](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a6a055/32.png) [@hobscrk777](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hobscrk777)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yo-yo-ma-the-std-operating-procedure-sucks/483073/35 "2009-01-26T18:33:10Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > And where exactly do you get that? In fact, I think I said “I listen to recordings.” I love recorded music, I listen to recordings daily. But I see no reason to watch someone miming to a recording – what’s the point? If I want to listen to a recording, I listen to a recording. But when I am viewing what seems to be a live performance, then it should be a genuine live performance; otherwise, it’s wasting my time. I get that from the following [QUOTE=acsenray;] If what you’re saying is true and that any “live” performance on TV is likely to be faked, then I no longer have any interest in them. [/QUOTE] You explicitly state that if a given performance is actually not “live” performance, then you are no longer interested in the performance. The only way I know how to interpret that is that you enjoy the performance less after knowing that it is not live. ---
**Author:** ![hobscrk777](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a6a055/32.png) [@hobscrk777](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hobscrk777)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yo-yo-ma-the-std-operating-procedure-sucks/483073/36 "2009-01-26T18:35:05Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > The deception is of exactly the same nature. > > It doesn’t matter why you’re doing, but if you’re going to do it, you shouldn’t do it in a deceptive manner. Miming is deception, unless you state explicitly “We’re going to mime our performance now.” > > Miming in a fictional movie is not deception, because the assumption is that everything is fake. This is approaching an entirely new issue here, but does that mean your assumption in everyday life is that everything is _not_ fake? I agree with you that in a movie it’s both obvious and implied that everything is fake. The way you worded your above phrase leads me to believe your default assumption when you’re walking around is that everything you encounter is real. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yo-yo-ma-the-std-operating-procedure-sucks/483073/37 "2009-01-26T18:36:09Z")
> [@hobscrk777](#): > > You explicitly state that if a given performance is actually not “live” performance, then you are no longer interested in the performance. The only way I know how to interpret that is that you enjoy the performance less after knowing that it is not live. No, I’m no longer interested in the _show_, if the show is nothing more than miming to a recording. I’ll listen to the recording at my convenience (if it’s good), without the superfluous miming. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yo-yo-ma-the-std-operating-procedure-sucks/483073/38 "2009-01-26T18:36:32Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > Again, I ask, which part is ridiculous and what makes it ridiculous. I already made it pretty clear that it is unnecessary to screw with the audience’s suspension of disbelief to that degree. The vast majority of those who have watched any music outdoors or on television, in an event that isn’t designed specifically to be a paid concert of that performer’s music, know that dubbed music is a very real possibility. You can rant and rave about it all you want, calling it “deception” and the like, but you’re aren’t going to get the amount of vitriol from the general public that you would like. Your analogies about look-alikes is nonsensical, since performs who are performing to live music are doing so to their own music. When they aren’t, people get pissed. Your analogy would work better if Obama was shown ceremoniously signing a fake piece of legislation on TV for the cameras, when the actual official document was signed quietly some hours before. Do those giant fake checks they give out to award winners piss you off too? ---
**Author:** ![grayhairedmomma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/47e85d/32.png) [@grayhairedmomma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grayhairedmomma)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yo-yo-ma-the-std-operating-procedure-sucks/483073/39 "2009-01-26T18:38:00Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > I just find it a bit ridiculous that they got as far as putting him on the bill. Freezing weather was hardly unexpected, so long ago somebody should have just dropped the whole idea, knowing full well what a charade would inevitably emerge from the use of a backing track. This is my position as well. I understand that Pres. Obama invited them personally, but at some point someone should have either come up with a way to keep the instruments and performers comfortably warm enough so they could play well - or chosen different musicians. I don’t think anyone would have cared that they would play with less fragile instruments. Did the marching bands in the parade march along to pre-recorded music? Re: “cultural norms” When something is presented as “live”, I take it to mean that everything is happening right then. Sure it’s been rehearsed to death to make it as mistake free as possible, but otherwise, this is it. What’s the point of taking the time and effort to tune in, or go see a “live” performance if they’re only going to play a recording you could listen to at anytime? ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yo-yo-ma-the-std-operating-procedure-sucks/483073/40 "2009-01-26T18:39:29Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > I assume the OP and I suffered similar injuries to the forehead (from intense eye-rolling) over the Chinese sending CGI feeds during the opening ceremonies that neither of us watched. Again, not really that big a deal in the grand scheme of things, but ridiculous none the less. He doesn’t watch sports, parades or music shows, so he didn’t catch that. Nobody particularly enjoys watching a mimed performance, particularly if it is obviously bad. However, they aren’t going to pick up pitchforks and start demanding disclaimers by musicians, either. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yo-yo-ma-the-std-operating-procedure-sucks/483073.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yo-yo-ma-the-std-operating-procedure-sucks/483073.md?page=3)