# Yogi Kinder Is A High School Coach, But A Major League Asshole **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 6, 2006, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yogi-kinder-is-a-high-school-coach-but-a-major-league-asshole/375532 "2006-10-06T18:41:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yogi-kinder-is-a-high-school-coach-but-a-major-league-asshole/375532/1 "2006-10-06T18:41:53Z")
Those of you who follow sports might have noticed that recently the single game rushing record (football) was set by Paul McCoy, a player for a small school in West Virginia. He ran for 658 yards and 10 touchdowns in a game his team won 64-0. Now, that lopsided score raised my eyebrows a bit, but often teams are serioulsy overmatched and hey, shit happens. Well, as Paul Harvey would say, here is [the rest of the story.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/05/AR2006100501978.html) Apparently, a few weeks earlier, coach Yogi Kinder, from now on known as Giant Flaming Asshole, had used an eligible player player, which resulted in the forfeiture of two games, and effectively putting the kibosh on their chances for a state title. So, after the first half ended and McCoy had 300 yards rushing, the GFA concocted a plan to\* “lift his team’s spirits and commemorate a great player, all at once.”\* Let’s go for the record guys! Where’s the harm in that? So, instead of sitting McCoy for the second half, which was what normally happens in blowouts – _“I always come out in a blowout,” McCoy said. "I was like, ‘That was fun, but I guess my night’s over.’ "_ the GFA decideced to go to a no-huddle offense, and run the score, and McCoy’s yardage, into the stratosphere. He even went so far as to refuse to field punts, so the ball could roll downfield and give McCoy more chances to pile it on! What a scumbag. What a jackoff. What a role model! ---
**Author:** ![jacquilynne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/67e7ee/32.png) [@jacquilynne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jacquilynne)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yogi-kinder-is-a-high-school-coach-but-a-major-league-asshole/375532/2 "2006-10-06T18:47:27Z")
Yeah, god, trying to cheer his team up like that. What a jerk. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yogi-kinder-is-a-high-school-coach-but-a-major-league-asshole/375532/3 "2006-10-06T18:59:14Z")
[QUOTE=jacquilynne] Yeah, god, trying to cheer his team up like that. What a jerk. [/QUOTE] If you read the whole artcle you will find out that seven players were dancing and screaming in the end zone after the record-breaking run. It really is enough to make one sick about competitive sports, and I am a HUGE sports fan. ---
**Author:** ![bobkitty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c67d28/32.png) [@bobkitty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobkitty)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yogi-kinder-is-a-high-school-coach-but-a-major-league-asshole/375532/4 "2006-10-06T19:04:23Z")
I really, truly don’t get it. The other team sucked, so the coach is obligated to… not play someone to their full potential? WTF kind of a message is that? “Gee, guys, your opponents today are a bunch of pussies. Try not to make them cry, 'k?” It’s not like the coach gets something out of this- they’re not going to the playoffs, _he_ doesn’t wind up in the record books- he did it so that the kid would have a better chance to get into college. Because that led to the other team looking like they had their thumbs up their asses the whole game isn’t the coach’s fault. Someone explain this to me so maybe I can see why I’m supposed to be upset. Especially the part where the other players celebrating the kid’s breaking the record is a bad thing- we’re supposed to ban all end-zone dances now, because they might upset the tender sensibilities of the other players? ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yogi-kinder-is-a-high-school-coach-but-a-major-league-asshole/375532/5 "2006-10-06T19:15:56Z")
Count me as one who also doesn’t have a problem with this. If we were talking about 7 year-olds, that’s one thing, but we’re talking about 17 year-olds, an age where it’s quite appropriate to learn that (a) you aren’t good at everything you attempt, (b) some people are much, much better than you, and © how to get over a good ass-handing. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yogi-kinder-is-a-high-school-coach-but-a-major-league-asshole/375532/6 "2006-10-06T19:22:26Z")
[QUOTE=bobkitty] I really, truly don’t get it. The other team sucked, so the coach is obligated to.. not play someone to their full potential? WTF kind of a message is that? “Gee, guys, your opponents today are a bunch of pussies. Try not to make them cry, 'k?” [/QUOTE] The point of competition is to win, and to foster good sportsmanship. Record setting is secondary. This record was not set under normal competitive conditions. Going to a no-huddle offense with a 50 point lead is the definition of unsportsmanlike. Refusing to field punts is unheard of. This guy piled it on, plain and simple, and partly to ameliorate his cheating by using an ineligible player. As noted, in blowouts the starters usually sit, giving the second stringers a chance to get some game experience. McCoy rushed for 500 yards in the first game of the season. He had 300 at the half. 800 yards is a good year for some backs. Do you really think a college scholarship hinged on the second half of this game? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yogi-kinder-is-a-high-school-coach-but-a-major-league-asshole/375532/7 "2006-10-06T19:25:46Z")
[QUOTE=jacquilynne] Yeah, god, trying to cheer his team up like that. What a jerk. [/QUOTE] Cheering up your team by embarrassing the other team is not a great strategy. There’s a certain level of cluelessness involved in saying “my kids feel bad that they won’t win the state championship, so I’ll make them feel better by beating up on an obviously inferior team that never manages a point against us.” Good effort, bad thinking. I actually feel some sympathy for Kinder after reading the article, but his plan was pretty thoughtless. We had a debate not that long ago about running up the score, and the coach here went past it. It’d be one thing if he kept his starters in and kept playing as if the game was close. Running a no-huddle and refusing to field punts so the back could rack up more yardage is really beyond the pale, it’s just disrespectful. That’s the kind of thing you’d do in a video game, not an actual football game with real kids. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yogi-kinder-is-a-high-school-coach-but-a-major-league-asshole/375532/8 "2006-10-06T19:26:27Z")
Stunts like this are how you end up with even more self-absorbed Terrell Owens style athletes. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yogi-kinder-is-a-high-school-coach-but-a-major-league-asshole/375532/9 "2006-10-06T19:29:52Z")
[QUOTE=jacquilynne] Yeah, god, trying to cheer his team up like that. What a jerk. [/QUOTE] Indeed, I’m sure the team would have been awfully crestfallen to only win 35-0. You should have a problem with it because respecting your opponent is part of what amateur sports is about. Without them, all you can do is play with yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yogi-kinder-is-a-high-school-coach-but-a-major-league-asshole/375532/10 "2006-10-06T19:31:35Z")
[QUOTE=JohnT] Count me as one who also doesn’t have a problem with this. If we were talking about 7 year-olds, that’s one thing, but we’re talking about 17 year-olds, an age where it’s quite appropriate to learn that (a) you aren’t good at everything you attempt, (b) some people are much, much better than you, and (c) how to get over a good ass-handing. [/QUOTE] Did you read the article? This was not a situation where one team simply overpowered another. This was a situation where one team embarassed another for the sole purpose of achieving an individual record in a team sport, and deflecting criticism from an incident of cheating. What world do you live in where running up the score is OK? They went to a no-huddle offense for an entire half, with the game well in hand. I suppose you would consider it OK for a boxer to keep punching an opponent who was TKO’d, so he could learn how to handle an ass whipping. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yogi-kinder-is-a-high-school-coach-but-a-major-league-asshole/375532/11 "2006-10-06T19:36:13Z")
[QUOTE=Cheesesteak] You should have a problem with it because respecting your opponent is part of what amateur sports is about. Without them, all you can do is play with yourself. [/QUOTE] Exactly. I’ve never played rugby, but my understanding is that it is as rough a game as exists; however, when the game is over, both teams gather in a suitable emporium and celebrate the sport with drink and song and the occasional bawdy anecdote. If you do not respect your opponent, you do not respect yourself. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yogi-kinder-is-a-high-school-coach-but-a-major-league-asshole/375532/12 "2006-10-06T19:44:13Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] Did you read the article? This was not a situation where one team simply overpowered another. This was a situation where one team embarassed another for the sole purpose of achieving an individual record in a team sport, and deflecting criticism from an incident of cheating. What world do you live in where running up the score is OK? They went to a no-huddle offense for an entire half, with the game well in hand. I suppose you would consider it OK for a boxer to keep punching an opponent who was TKO’d, so he could learn how to handle an ass whipping. [/QUOTE] I live in a world in which occasionally, you get your ass handed to you. If the team didn’t want the other guy to get the record, they should have stopped him. For the boxing allegory, if the boxer was TKO’d, the fight would be over. I saw nothing in the article that said either team continued to play after the fourth quarter ended. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yogi-kinder-is-a-high-school-coach-but-a-major-league-asshole/375532/13 "2006-10-06T19:49:48Z")
[QUOTE=JohnT] I live in a world in which occasionally, you get your ass handed to you. If the team didn’t want the other guy to get the record, they should have stopped him. [/QUOTE] How often do people in your line of work go out of their way to embarrass you like this? They were obviously totally unable to, and everybody on both sides of the field knew it. That’s why it’s humiliating and unnecessary. Kinder’s act of charity has resulted in this controversy and taken the lustre off the record he wanted for the kid - some reward that is. And actually, he’s lucky that one of the opposing players didn’t snap and break the running back’s leg. That would’ve been some reward, too. This is sports, not war. Scorched earth tactics are not acceptable. ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yogi-kinder-is-a-high-school-coach-but-a-major-league-asshole/375532/14 "2006-10-06T19:52:14Z")
[QUOTE=bobkitty] I really, truly don’t get it. [/QUOTE] you’re right, you don’t. [QUOTE=bobkitty] The other team sucked, so the coach is obligated to.. not play someone to their full potential? WTF kind of a message is that? “Gee, guys, your opponents today are a bunch of pussies. Try not to make them cry, 'k?” [/QUOTE] A highschool coach has several jobs; one is to teach sportsmanship. The coach’s play calling was unsportsmanlike. It went well beyond “running-up the score,” which in some instances might be justified or excused, and into the territory of assholish. This is almost the opposite situation as the one brought up by **Bricker** in the other thread, where the coach had pulled his starters relativley early (there should never be a reason to pull your starters before the conlcusion of the first half) and it was his second and third teams that did the late scoring. This is a situation where a coach kept his best guy in (at his peril) just to set an individual record. [QUOTE=bobkitty] he did it so that the kid would have a better chance to get into college. Because that led to the other team looking like they had their thumbs up their asses the whole game isn’t the coach’s fault.. [/QUOTE] you know this how? as has been mentioned, this would have little impact on a recruiters decision and if anything the caoch was making this kid run “unnecessary” plays at his own peril – what happens if with 2 minutes left while the kid is pursuing a record, a saftey gets a break, has a line on him and takes him out, breaking his leg Tyrone Prothro style in the process. You get to be the one to explain irony to him. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yogi-kinder-is-a-high-school-coach-but-a-major-league-asshole/375532/15 "2006-10-06T19:52:33Z")
[QUOTE=JohnT] I live in a world in which occasionally, you get your ass handed to you. If the team didn’t want the other guy to get the record, they should have stopped him. For the boxing allegory, if the boxer was TKO’d, the fight would be over. I saw nothing in the article that said either team continued to play after the fourth quarter ended. :rolleyes: [/QUOTE] Fine. Is the concept of sportsmanship foreign to you? As **Cheesesteak** pointed out, mutual respect is an essential component of athletic competition. Have you ever played team sports? Did your coaches leave the starters in long after the outcome was no longer in doubt? If so do you believe that you received a positive life lesson? ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yogi-kinder-is-a-high-school-coach-but-a-major-league-asshole/375532/16 "2006-10-06T19:53:01Z")
[QUOTE=JohnT] If the team didn’t want the other guy to get the record, they should have stopped him. [/QUOTE] They could have walked off the field with 4 minutes to go and left the kid 25 yards shy of the record. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yogi-kinder-is-a-high-school-coach-but-a-major-league-asshole/375532/17 "2006-10-06T20:39:18Z")
Where the hell was McCoy to run in the 2 pointers? Kinder sends in 4 fer 10 kicker instead? No doubt, Kinder is getting a little soft on his competition… ---
**Author:** ![bobkitty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c67d28/32.png) [@bobkitty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobkitty)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yogi-kinder-is-a-high-school-coach-but-a-major-league-asshole/375532/18 "2006-10-06T21:46:20Z")
[QUOTE=whole bean] you know this how? [/QUOTE] Ummm, from the linked article: > [@](#): > > McCoy’s parents grew up near Matewan, a mountain town of about 500 people located two hours from the nearest airport in Charleston. They owned a local barbeque restaurant, and \*\*McCoy had promised them he would somehow earn a college scholarship. At 5 feet 8 and about 160 pounds, McCoy could squat 500 pounds and bench 350. He had given up his dreams of playing running back in college and signed up to be a cornerback at summer football camps, hoping college recruiters would notice him at that position. They still said he was too small. > > Maybe, Kinder thought, a national record would change their minds.\*\* > > Early in the second half, the coach gathered his starting offense and asked a question that shocked them: How do you feel about going with a no-huddle offense? Do you want to go after this record for Paul? Bolding mine. Of course there’s no guarantee, but it _may_ have made a difference, and the coach chose to take that chance. It’s not like he sat there and said “You know, we could really trounce these guys! Let’s fuck them up!!” The other coach chose not to toss in the towel when he saw what was happening, and apparently it was clear to him for three quarters of the game. If he is so upset at the unsportsmanlike behavior and his team being humilated, maybe he should have done something earlier? Look, I quite clearly said I don’t get it. I’m not saying it’s right, but geez- we’ve got people who freak out when T-ball kids don’t get “out” because it doesn’t teach them competition, and now we’ve got people freaked out because someone was too competative. Where’s the middle ground? ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yogi-kinder-is-a-high-school-coach-but-a-major-league-asshole/375532/19 "2006-10-06T22:34:39Z")
[QUOTE=bobkitty] I’m not saying it’s right, but geez- we’ve got people who freak out when T-ball kids don’t get “out” because it doesn’t teach them competition, and now we’ve got people freaked out because someone was too competative. Where’s the middle ground? [/QUOTE] There’s an enormous amount of middle ground between not letting kids play to win and humiliating your opponent. Generally speaking, the goal is to win the game. At halftime, it was pretty much clear that the game was won, the winning aspect of this is no longer relevant. Being competitive, “trying to win” does not have any meaning when you’ve already sewn up the victory. At that point, the goal of the game needs to change. In this case, coach changed it to “set a record”, clearly he was not attempting to win the game anymore. Nobody deliberately lets a punt go uncaught in order to win the game. Note that the expectation at the end of the game is to gather in the middle of the field and shake hands with your opponent. That is a sign of respect and thanks for making it possible to play a game that day. If you spend the entire game disrespecting and humiliating your opponent, how do you look them in the eye and shake their hand in good conscience? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yogi-kinder-is-a-high-school-coach-but-a-major-league-asshole/375532/20 "2006-10-06T22:54:11Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > There’s an enormous amount of middle ground between not letting kids play to win and humiliating your opponent. This is the same issue that was discussed in [the recent GD thread about “mercy rules” or “anti-blowout” rules in high school football](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=389337). ISTM that incidents like this are exactly why such rules get enacted. People have different opinions as to where the line should be drawn between a legitimate overwhelming victory and an unsportsmanlike nuts-bashing humiliation. It’s no wonder that some leagues prefer to set up standardized procedures to deal with such situations. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yogi-kinder-is-a-high-school-coach-but-a-major-league-asshole/375532.md?page=2)