Barking Spider, I don’t know what crawled up your ass, bu t I blievie it’s fucking whit your prain as all the stuff that’s come out of your ass just sound s like a pile of shit. Everywhere you go you just take pleasure it seem sin insulting folks, adn taht’s a cryaing shames. how can you cite the Bell Curve as any kind of scholarly source, or even look to IQ tests as anyh sign of an accurate wayu to measure intelligence. Oh, my head hurts from reading your posts. I’ve got to go lay down. Once I sober up, I’ll come back and cuss you out rporper, unless Collounsbury gets here first. Right now, I think I’ll go throw up. …
You know what “crawled up my ass”?
Monstro is an admitted recipient of a racist “affirmative action” plan.
She comes on the SD and calls her co-worker a Bitch because her co-worker wants to claim the same thing. Monsto decides that she can tell Gypsys stricty by their appearance.
Monsto then starts pissing and moaning because Blacks arent proportionatly represented in the “Sciences”. She clams that Blacks are somehow discriminated against, and that is the reason why they are not proportionataly represented in the higher Universitys.
As a man who has read and understood the Bell Curve, all her arguments seem like so much whining and malarky.
Here she is, as a person who has taken advantage of a racist "affirmative action " program, bitches and moans because a White person might want to do the same thing. I ask her, How many more deserving Whites were put on the back burner because some liberal school board decided to admit a less deserving Monstro?
I think you’re missing the point, Monty. It’s all very well to learn about one’s heritage. If that’s all this woman were doing, she’d just say, “Wow, turns out I have Gypsy ancestry. Cool! I want to learn more about this.” That would be fine.
What she’s doing isn’t fine. As others in this thread have said:
“To me, if you have to ‘discover’ your kinship to a group, then you have no business claiming that you are a member of this group…”
“I think if you have to ‘find out’ something like this, then you shouldn’t claim it.”
“If she had no idea about her Gypsy ancestor until just recently, then she has no Gypsy ethnicity.”
In the US, this crops up most frequently in regard to people who, as teens or adults, are told that they have some small fraction of Native American culture, and immediately think, “Wow, I wonder what benefits I can get!”
Whatever scholarships, benefits, or other perks are available to Native Americans, Gypsies, or Whatevers should be reserved for people whoreally are members of the discriminated-against group; that is, people who grew up in the culture – people who, throughout their lives, actually faced discrimination. Not people who grew up as previledged members of the dominent society.
Great! Since the University system has been actively discriminating against White and Asian students for at least the last 25 years, does that mean we can finally go to the head of the line?
The Barking Spider sings, at the top of his lungs:
Oh, why can’t "minorities"compete, like everyone else?
Why can’t minorities compete?
Just like any other normal person, I say,
Why can’t “minorities” compete?
No. There was one study that has been challenged on its flawed protocols that determined that within one specific set of speed limits on one highway system blacks were found to exceed the limit by 15% more than whites. The study made no mention of the routinely reported situation of a black professional being followed through his own neighborhood and being pulled over because the cop didn’t think he “looked like he belonged there.”
One third of all lynchings in this country have been of white men by white men. The remaining two thirds have been of black men by white men. Around 60% of the white men lynched, were lynched in the “Old West” (usually horse thieves and gamblers) making the numbers staggeringly more horriffic toward blacks.
True (sort of).
True.
Absolutely false.
The slavery that existed in Africa prior to the chattel slavery that was created and introduced by whites from Europe and the Mid-East was different in character than chattel slavery. The introduction of the idea of slaves as a commodity changed slavery in Africa and created the demand for slaves that had never existed. Whereas slavery had initially been an occasional and incidental part of tribal warfare, it became, under the impetus of white demands for labor, a new industry in which wars were begun for the sole purpose of taking slaves.
Only seven out of forty-eight states (all of them in the mostly underpopulated West) had allowed women to vote before 1920.
The Bell Curve has been exposed in numerous scientific journals as having used selective data, interpreted badly, with serious flaws in the analysis to deliberately achieve a predetermined goal of making a claim for racial intelligence levels that cannot be supported by the actual data. The fact that the book was published with a deliberate attempt to avoid any peer review indicates the claerly dishonest intentions of the authors. This information has been publicly available for a number of years (and has been posted on the SDMB on several occasions). The Bell Curve was simply unsupportable trash with no legitimate claim to science. One brief history of The Bell Curve (At the bottom of the article are links to five specific cases where the authors fudged data or lied to make their points.)
Given the error rates in your recent posts, I would suggest that you are really not posting in the spirit of The Straight Dope©.
Since I’m black and an AA receipient, I’m obviously not able to engage on the same level of discourse as you, Barking Spider. Why don’t all of us black folks just shut up and deal with the fact that we’re stupid compared to the white man and should never aspire to anything more than a menial worker?
Of course, this particular black person knows “good” science from “bad” science, and thus can read critically through the BS in “The Bell Curve” (But even third graders can read critically, so that’s not much of an accomplishment). As someone who has been on the board, surely Barking Spider knows the criticisms of the particular “research” cited in the book. And if not, he can do a simple google search to find out what’s wrong with it. My being black makes me too stupid to list all the reasons why it’s a bunch of racist shit. You have to forgive me for being so stupid compared to you, Barking Spider.
Since I’m so stupid, I can’t seem to distinguish my “whining and malarky” from yours. In fact, it seems to me that you’ve done a lot more whining and malarky-spewing than I have on the board. But what do I know? I’ve inherited those intellectually inferior genes from all those black people that have come before me. I should be working at McDonald’s, where I don’t have to worry about getting into all those wonderful white people’s ways. I don’t even know how I’m able to work the microscope at school. The microscope must be a special one just for Affirmative Action beneficiaries.
Oops. Did I spell “beneficiaries” right? Probably not. They probably shouldn’t have let me go to Georgia Tech because I can’t spell. I probably shouldn’t have graduated with honors. All those professors probably felt sorry for my ugly nappy headed self and just gave me As to assuage their white guilt. I don’t deserve any of the awards I have won. My publications don’t mean zilch. I don’t deserve a Ph.D. Like I said, I should probably be working at McDonald’s. Since I’m good with the book-learnin’, maybe they’ll put me on the cash register machine with all those purty buttons. Maybe I won’t even have to wear a hair net. But I’m too stupid to know about hair nets, so what the hell am I talking about?
I’ll give back the money the gubmit has given me so they can give it to people like Barking Spider, who love black people so much and won’t talk down to them condescendingly as he studies their health problems or raises their attention to environmental issues in their communities. He won’t think they’re stupid. He won’t think they all deserve to be arrested on the Turnpike. He won’t think they stink or that they’re lazy. He’ll serve as a good role model for all those black kids who only see themselves as ball players and rap artists and somebody’s baby’s mama. And he and people like him will bridge all the disparities that exist in this society, because he knows that doing so is inherently a good thing Because Barking Spider loves the everyone, especially them blacks. Yes, he does.
Well, let me go back to shucking’ and jivin’. I have a pan of fried chicken on the stove that needs tendin’ to.
Lawhamercy. I see another Barking Spider bit-o-wisdom:
Why can’t “minorities” compete?
I know! I know! Because we’re stupid, right? Do I get a gold star? Yippeee!
Given a level p;aying field, they can. Education begets education. Throughout most of this country’s history, it ws the children of the educated who pursued education, with a small trickle of “new blood” coming in at each generation. The one exception to this trend was the post-WWII influx of college entrants promoted by the GI Bill and the attendant promotion of college as a “good thing.” At that time, the number of college educated people expanded rapidly into groups who had not previously begun to avail themselves of that opportunity. Blacks were always restrained from entering colleges (by both poverty and exclusion) and they were not included in the massive campaign to enroll more college students prompted by the GI Bill (both by not being target with pro-education advertising and by being denied entrance when they applied). So, until the late 1960s, blacks were specifically held outside the growing circle of college educated.
The general trend that college-educated parents bring up children to attend college continues, but the numbers (both raw and as a percentage) of blacks who are exposed to this expanding pool are artificially lower because of historic acts. The purpose of programs to bring in more blacks is to offset the discrimination that led to their being an artificially smaller group on campus. Similarly, the Hispanic and Vietnamese immigrants of the past 30 years arrived without the family-determined “college tradition” (and without the Post-WWII campaign to include them). The minority set-asides are an attempt to bring them all into the same tradition so that they can compete.
Monstro, the stupid cracker is not worth it. Don’t fret yourself because some racist asshole wants to give you a hard time. You got more melanin in your skin, other folks got less. What that has to do with intelligence, kindeness, or virtue is beyond me. Skin color is one of those incidental things, like hair color.
Correction: My memory had confused the raw number 602 with the approximate 60%. In fact, the lynching numbers are:
Secessionist States:
Whites: 0,512
Blacks: 3,057
Totals: 3,569
Border States: (“Southern” is open to interpretation)
Whites: 153
Blacks: 257
Totals: 410
Other States:
Whites: 602 (Lot’s of cattle rustlers, horse thieves, and gamblers)
Blacks: 127
Totals: 729
United States Totals 1882-1968 using Tuskegee Institue figures (generally deemed to be the most conservative numbers):
Whites: 1,297
Blacks: 3,446
Totals: 4,743
So as few as 39.4% of the whites were lynched in the South (usually for being “colored” sympathizers, but also for being accused of “trifling” with a woman), or as many as 51.2% (depending on how many whites in Kansas or Missouri were hung as horse thieves vs as “sympathizers”).
As noted in these links:
Lynching in America: Statistics, Information, Images
Lynchings by Year
Lynchings by State
Lynchings by Purported Reason
I think someone else in this thread (or maybe another), said that he was half Puertorrican/half white, nonLatino. He does not live around a Hispanic culture, and neither do his children (with the same Latino surname). Because of that, he doesn’t ask for anything Latino-related, and expects his kids to do the same. Why ask only for money, when you are not immersed or consider yourself part of a culture? You’re only showing greed, which is an ugly trait, regardless of your ethnicity.
PD. I have distant cousins who have some of my surnames but do not know and do not share the Latino culture. I would be very pissed off if they suddenly claimed “minority” status just to help them out of a problem.
I don’t mark race on a form.
- They can’t force you to do so.
- Whose business is it what I am?
- Opal, what are they doing with this info anyway? I’m hard pressed to believe it’s anything good.
- On the PSATs, I put “human”. This led to some unpleasantness. On the SATs, I discreetly left it blank; no reaction.
- Anyone see Stand and Deliver?
- At least they stopped asking about religion.
No, Rilchiam, can you tell me something about Stand and Deliver?
To me, the big picture is “race” is such a flawed concept to begin with…why not use family income or the per-capita income of the student’s high school to determine this? You would still help out a lot of minorities…but not automatically shut out European or Asian-Americans and not automatically give preference to richer minority people.
Also, as far as I know having a Hispanic surname does not automatically make you Hispanic or eligible for AA as much as having another surname excludes you from being Hispanic. A lot of non-Hispanic people have very Spanish surnames. And I have seen Italian, French, and Portuguese surnames that could be perfectly Hispanic.
I don’t even think people or European Spanish origin are “Hispanic” for AA purposes either…depending on who is screening applicants.
Cuate kind of said what i was thinking this whole time. This is just classism that gets mislabeled racism. There is no inherent benefit in being white. Maybe there is in being white from a certain level of affluence. However as there are more white people in this country than there are minorities (thus the term minorities) there are more poor and marginalized white people than there are poor and marginalized people of any particular race. Affirmative Action is racist as it benefits you based upon race.
As for the Bell Curve, well, the only people who believe that are the ones that couldn’t even claim that they were among the white people of superior intelligence, even if it were true.
I see idiocy on both sides.
Erek
Barking Spider-why don’t you just go over to JanL’s board and leave us alone? Because you’re obviously NOT interested in fighting ignorance.
Haven’t read the entire thread; forgive me if this is redundant.
Oh, Monstro, don’t drop out of the fellowship! You know you’re not “getting while the grabbing is good”; what does it matter who you’re associated with? A PhD from the NIH will enable you to correct this kind of foolishness. You can use this story as an example, and people will be more moved if they hear that you continued in the program anyway, for the good of others. Saying “So I quit” will just make you look like someone who turns away from an obstacle.
Oh, and KarlGrenze: Stand and Deliver was a film with Edward James Olmos and Lou Diamond Phillips. Olmos is a math teacher at a school in the barrio. He takes his students through calculus, insisting that math is “the great equalizer” in the job market.
Their goal is the Advanced Placement Calculus Test. There’s an ominous shot (I love non-dialogue shots!) of someone’s pencil filling in the circle next to “Hispanic”. Because 30 or so “Hispanic” students all took the exam on the same day, and all passed, many with top scores, but also made similar mistakes, the Educational Testing Service suspects fraud and sends in investigators (one is played by Andy Garcia!).
“What if thirty white kids had all made the same mistakes?”
“We would have thought that was odd…”
“But they wouldn’t have sent you guys!”
That’s one reason (not the only) that I don’t mark race on a form.
Ok, thanks Rilchiam!
karlGrense,
Stand and deliver was, IIRC, about an inner city LA school where one teacher got his (mostly) Latino students to sit SAT’s. They all got extremely good marks, but the examination board was convinced that they had cheated somehow, because they were Latino.
They were forced to resit the exams, and got the same results.
it was based on a true story.