# You are not freaking E.E. Cummings. English usage exists for a REASON, damn it! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 16, 2008, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-not-freaking-e-e-cummings-english-usage-exists-for-a-reason-damn-it/463899 "2008-09-16T21:17:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-not-freaking-e-e-cummings-english-usage-exists-for-a-reason-damn-it/463899/21 "2008-09-16T23:18:14Z")
> [@poker\_in\_the\_rear](#): > > piss off Assuming that you’re being serious, my OP was not aimed at you; the person who inspired it has actually responded privately. Assuming you’re not being serious: I try to piss ON, not off. It’s more evil. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-not-freaking-e-e-cummings-english-usage-exists-for-a-reason-damn-it/463899/22 "2008-09-16T23:21:54Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Sadly, I must point out that the phrase “general consensus” is redundant. It’s as bad as “consensus of opinion.” I thought that in an _actual_ consensus, everyone had accepted the eventual conclusion. Not so in a “general concensus” - those allow for the occasional disagreer. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-not-freaking-e-e-cummings-english-usage-exists-for-a-reason-damn-it/463899/23 "2008-09-16T23:24:29Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Sadly, I must point out that the phrase “general consensus” is redundant. It’s as bad as “consensus of opinion.” It’s an idiom. Call it a colloquialism if you will. It is popular and not incorrect in a language based on - _ahem_ - general consensus :). Edit: Ah, begbert2 is right anyway. And Merriam Webster explicitly states that consensus of opinion is correct. ---
**Author:** ![LurkMeister](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3da27b/32.png) [@LurkMeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkMeister)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-not-freaking-e-e-cummings-english-usage-exists-for-a-reason-damn-it/463899/24 "2008-09-16T23:24:34Z")
I’ve always felt that it was better to be pissed off than to be pissed on. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-not-freaking-e-e-cummings-english-usage-exists-for-a-reason-damn-it/463899/25 "2008-09-16T23:24:37Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > I thought that in an _actual_ consensus, everyone had accepted the eventual conclusion. Not so in a “general concensus” - those allow for the occasional disagreer. Nope. [consensus General agreement, characterized by the absence of sustained opposition to substantial issues by any important part of the concerned interests and by a process that involves seeking to take into account the views of all parties concerned and to reconcile any conflicting arguments NOTE Consensus need not imply unanimity](http://www.bsi-global.com/en/Standards-and-Publications/About-standards/Glossary/) ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-not-freaking-e-e-cummings-english-usage-exists-for-a-reason-damn-it/463899/26 "2008-09-16T23:27:15Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > It’s an idiom. Call it a colloquialism if you will. It is popular and not incorrect in a language based on - _ahem_ - general consensus :). :: sighing :: :: teleporting Cisco a loaded revolver, a broadsword & a light saber :: I’ll let you pick the weapon, the place, AND the time. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-not-freaking-e-e-cummings-english-usage-exists-for-a-reason-damn-it/463899/27 "2008-09-16T23:28:33Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Nope. > > [consensus > General agreement, characterized by the absence of sustained opposition to substantial issues by any important part of the concerned interests and by a process that involves seeking to take into account the views of all parties concerned and to reconcile any conflicting arguments > NOTE Consensus need not imply unanimity](http://www.bsi-global.com/en/Standards-and-Publications/About-standards/Glossary/) I’ll see your cite and raise you [the Merriam-Webster’s online dictionary](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/consensus) (which actually spikes you on a front I did not). Main Entry: con·sen·sus Pronunciation: \kən-ˈsen(t)-səs\ Function: noun Usage: often attributive Etymology: Latin, from consentire Date: 1843 1 a: general agreement : unanimity \ b: the judgment arrived at by most of those concerned \ 2: group solidarity in sentiment and belief usage The phrase consensus of opinion, which is not actually redundant (see sense 1a; the sense that takes the phrase is slightly older), has been so often claimed to be a redundancy that many writers avoid it. You are safe in using consensus alone when it is clear you mean consensus of opinion, and most writers in fact do so. Both are correct. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-not-freaking-e-e-cummings-english-usage-exists-for-a-reason-damn-it/463899/28 "2008-09-16T23:30:28Z")
Lightsabers, underneath Cloud City, at dusk. I AM your father. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-not-freaking-e-e-cummings-english-usage-exists-for-a-reason-damn-it/463899/29 "2008-09-16T23:32:53Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > It’s an idiom. Call it a colloquialism if you will. It is popular and not incorrect in a language based on - _ahem_ - general consensus :). > > Edit: Ah, begbert2 is right anyway. And Merriam Webster explicitly states that consensus of opinion is correct. I was going to say that you’ve gone mad again, but glancing the entry I see that it could be read your way. We’ll have to call off the duel; I have some lexicographers to murder. I was going to cheat in the duel anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Orbifold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/779978/32.png) [@Orbifold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orbifold)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-not-freaking-e-e-cummings-english-usage-exists-for-a-reason-damn-it/463899/30 "2008-09-17T00:05:29Z")
Amen, I say. Making the effort to use correct spelling, capitalization, and grammar is a courtesy. It shows respect for the reader. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-not-freaking-e-e-cummings-english-usage-exists-for-a-reason-damn-it/463899/31 "2008-09-17T00:05:45Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I agree that he signed his name that way. Did you look at the link I offered? – [http://www.gvsu.edu/english/cummings/caps.htm](http://www.gvsu.edu/english/cummings/caps.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-not-freaking-e-e-cummings-english-usage-exists-for-a-reason-damn-it/463899/32 "2008-09-17T00:08:00Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > Did you look at the link I offered? – > > [http://www.gvsu.edu/english/cummings/caps.htm](http://www.gvsu.edu/english/cummings/caps.htm) :: growling:: Hmm. I was right and wrong at the same time. If this were Star Trek and I, an android, there’d be positronic matrix bits all over the damn floor. ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-not-freaking-e-e-cummings-english-usage-exists-for-a-reason-damn-it/463899/33 "2008-09-17T00:17:11Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > \*using ellipses not to indicate excisions in quotations, but instead strewing them about as randomly as the enter key Ellipses are also legitimately used as a mark to indicate a pause in speech… or an unfinished thought… or a sentence trailing away into silence (an em-dash can also be used to mark aposiopesis). Otherwise a good rant, I haven’t read a better since… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-not-freaking-e-e-cummings-english-usage-exists-for-a-reason-damn-it/463899/34 "2008-09-17T00:19:05Z")
> [@](#): > > posted by **Orbifold** > Amen, I say. Making the effort to use correct spelling, capitalization, and grammar is a courtesy. It shows respect for the reader. Plus, it leaves the idiots with fewer excuses for misunderstanding you. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![djf750](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ea666f/32.png) [@djf750](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/djf750)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-not-freaking-e-e-cummings-english-usage-exists-for-a-reason-damn-it/463899/35 "2008-09-17T00:51:59Z")
fuck you hi miller > **[funny thing about the matrix](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=184591)** > > did anyone nodice that when the original matrix came out there was a glut of teenagers that were amazeingly elitist and had a “none of you can understand this deep movie, your much to stupid to like such a wonderful movie why can’t you be as smart... ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-not-freaking-e-e-cummings-english-usage-exists-for-a-reason-damn-it/463899/36 "2008-09-17T00:56:16Z")
> [@djf750](#): > > fuck you > > hi miller > [funny thing about the matrix - The BBQ Pit - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=184591) Five years ago? Jeezus, let it go already. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-not-freaking-e-e-cummings-english-usage-exists-for-a-reason-damn-it/463899/37 "2008-09-17T01:08:08Z")
My guess is pinkyvee thinks she’s being cute, while trying to troll as much as possible. But at least it isn’t working, huh Skald? ---
**Author:** ![djf750](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ea666f/32.png) [@djf750](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/djf750)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-not-freaking-e-e-cummings-english-usage-exists-for-a-reason-damn-it/463899/38 "2008-09-17T01:11:50Z")
> [@Q.E.D](#): > > Five years ago? Jeezus, let it go already. hey, he started it ---
**Author:** ![5-HT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/f19dbf/32.png) [@5-HT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5-HT)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-not-freaking-e-e-cummings-english-usage-exists-for-a-reason-damn-it/463899/39 "2008-09-17T01:16:20Z")
i don’t get it whats the problem ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-not-freaking-e-e-cummings-english-usage-exists-for-a-reason-damn-it/463899/40 "2008-09-17T06:07:56Z")
God you must really hate my user name. I’m not sure why I avoided spaces or capitalization, I had been lurking long enough to know the (rather lax) limits of user names on this site. I make up for it by using impeccable\* English everywhere, including text messages. Please spare me from your purges of those who oppose you, almight Skald! \*I fully expect Gaudere to strike my post at any time [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-not-freaking-e-e-cummings-english-usage-exists-for-a-reason-damn-it/463899.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-not-freaking-e-e-cummings-english-usage-exists-for-a-reason-damn-it/463899.md?page=3)