# You are not French! Pronounce the "h"! (lame rant) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 28, 2003, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-not-french-pronounce-the-h-lame-rant/171571 "2003-04-28T01:37:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Super\_Gnat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Super\_Gnat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Super_Gnat)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-not-french-pronounce-the-h-lame-rant/171571/1 "2003-04-28T01:37:49Z")
For the last time, it’s “a historical event”. Not “an istorical event”. You are not speaking French. Perhaps you feel that you are erudite or learned or something by leaving off the first letter. To me you just sound silly. The “h” is there for a reason. Use it and stop annoying me! ---
**Author:** ![I\_can\_t\_believe\_that\_s\_butter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@I\_can\_t\_believe\_that\_s\_butter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_can_t_believe_that_s_butter)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-not-french-pronounce-the-h-lame-rant/171571/2 "2003-04-28T01:47:29Z")
So, ah, who’s the guilty party? ---
**Author:** ![JonScribe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3be4f8/32.png) [@JonScribe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JonScribe)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-not-french-pronounce-the-h-lame-rant/171571/3 "2003-04-28T01:47:53Z")
Just you wait, 'enry 'iggens. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-not-french-pronounce-the-h-lame-rant/171571/4 "2003-04-28T01:48:42Z")
I thought you were supposed to use “an” before “historical” even in English when pronouncing the h. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-not-french-pronounce-the-h-lame-rant/171571/5 "2003-04-28T01:54:01Z")
Some - people’s - lects - do - not - have - the - fucking - overt - “h” - at - the - beginning - of - “historical”. Jesus Christ. Do you get this pissy when someone pronounces it “leftenant”? ---
**Author:** ![jovan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/0ea827/32.png) [@jovan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jovan)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-not-french-pronounce-the-h-lame-rant/171571/6 "2003-04-28T03:26:43Z")
matt, hi’m sorry, hi don’t hunderstand what you say. Can you hexplain, it would be elpfull. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-not-french-pronounce-the-h-lame-rant/171571/7 "2003-04-28T03:32:21Z")
> [@](#): > > Perhaps you feel that you are erudite or learned or something by leaving off the first letter. To me you just sound silly. The “h” is there for a reason. Use it and stop annoying me! The H is there for the purpose of orthographic continuity. Where I come from, several words beginning H do not get aspirated if the accent falls on the second syllable. I do not get silly mad at people who say “a **h** istorical,” but I am not going out of my way to change my speech just because you grew up with different rules. “An 'istorical” works fine. I do not say “an 'istory lesson” because the accent in history falls on the first syllable and is aspirated. (If you’d like, however, I’ll see whether I have a spare crutch for you to use with your rant.) ---
**Author:** ![LifeOnWry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/96bed5/32.png) [@LifeOnWry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LifeOnWry)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-not-french-pronounce-the-h-lame-rant/171571/8 "2003-04-28T03:51:16Z")
[Hawkeye Pierce} “This is Major Charles Emerson Winchester. I require an harmonica!” [/Hawkeye Pierce} Until I was well into adulthood, I never heard anybody say “an 'istorical.” Nor did they say “Cro Man-yon” or “Neandertal” - that was Cro-MaGnon and NeanderTHal. I was just wondering the other day why American English speakers have switched over to pronouncing some words more… correctly, I suppose, more like the languages from which these words come (if THAT made any damn sense.) As for me, I’ve started pronouncing the “H” in “herbs” and “herbal” just because it makes my 'usband cringe 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![FranticMad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c68b51/32.png) [@FranticMad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FranticMad)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-not-french-pronounce-the-h-lame-rant/171571/9 "2003-04-28T03:52:30Z")
Where you from, boy? Y’all talk funny, if you ask me. ---
**Author:** ![Profane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e47774/32.png) [@Profane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Profane)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-not-french-pronounce-the-h-lame-rant/171571/10 "2003-04-28T04:15:20Z")
Is it really proper to say “an historical…” if you pronounce the H? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-not-french-pronounce-the-h-lame-rant/171571/11 "2003-04-28T04:48:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by LunaSea \* > \*\*Is it really proper to say “an historical…” if you pronounce the H? \*\* According to Bryan Garner, in _A Dictionary of Modern American Usage_, no. > [@](#): > > Writers on usage formerly disputed whether the correct article is _a_ or _an_ with _historian, historic_, and a few other words. The traditional rule is that if the _h-_ is sounded, _a_ is the proper form. Most people following that rule would say _a historian_ and _a historic_… > > The theory behind using _an_ in such a context, however, is that the _h-_ is very weak when the accent is on the second rather than the first syllable…Thus no authority countenances _an history_, though a few older ones prefer _an historian_ and _an historical_. > > Today, however, _an hypothesis_ and _an historical_ are likely to strike readers and listeners as affectations. This is, however, from an American usage dictionary. In England, and in some parts of the Commonwealth, _an_ is considered acceptable. According to _Fowler’s Modern English Usage_ (third edition), edited by R.W. Burchfield: > [@](#): > > When preceded by the indefinite article, the following pattern is recommended: _an historic, an historian_; but _a history_. > > \ > > The type _an historical_ (not _a historical_) is recommended. Personally, i have no problem with someone using _an historian_ in formal writing, although i think this construction tends to sound a little odd when spoken. I tend to agree with Garner, at least regarding the spoken form, when he says: > [@](#): > > _An_ humanitarian is, judged even by the most tolerant standards, a pretentious humanitarian. ---
**Author:** ![Super\_Gnat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Super\_Gnat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Super_Gnat)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-not-french-pronounce-the-h-lame-rant/171571/12 "2003-04-28T04:49:19Z")
Note to all: Yes, this is a lame and stupid rant. It’s just on the list of things that piss me off for no discernable reason. I am fully aware that the the strength of the English language is in its diversity and many varying dialects. Feel free to say stuff however you like. However, this does not lessen my annoyance unless you drop all of your h’s. **matt** : I thought “leftenent” was a different rank (or from a different hierarchy) than “lieutenant”. Are they really the same, and if so when did the spelling cross over? **LifeOnWry** , I’ve never heard anyone say “Cro Man-yon” or “Neandertal”. ---
**Author:** ![j\_kat\_251](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/71c47a/32.png) [@j\_kat\_251](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j_kat_251)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-not-french-pronounce-the-h-lame-rant/171571/13 "2003-04-28T04:51:28Z")
There is no discrepancy in spelling, they both refer to the same rank, it is (like your crying about istorical) a pronunciation issue. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-not-french-pronounce-the-h-lame-rant/171571/14 "2003-04-28T04:53:53Z")
I’m with Tom on this one. Where I learned the lingo, the “h” rules are the same as he’s recounted. The whole OP reminds me of a bit from Barney Miller: [ul]Carter Administration Flunky: We don’t speak with accents. Y’all speak with accents.[/ul] ---
**Author:** ![Super\_Gnat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Super\_Gnat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Super_Gnat)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-not-french-pronounce-the-h-lame-rant/171571/15 "2003-04-28T05:00:25Z")
**j\_kat** , I’ve read books where an officer was referred to as “Leftenant Lastname”. This was never interchanged with “Lieutenant”, so I figured it was a rank in a different miiltary hierarchy. (Though now that I think of it, I’m not sure whether or not I read this in more than one book. I read a lot of SF, so it may be a rank some author made up for their particular book(s).) ---
**Author:** ![LifeOnWry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/96bed5/32.png) [@LifeOnWry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LifeOnWry)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-not-french-pronounce-the-h-lame-rant/171571/16 "2003-04-28T05:14:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Super Gnat \* > \*\* > **LifeOnWry** , I’ve never heard anyone say “Cro Man-yon” or “Neandertal”. \*\* Start watching the History Channel, Discovery, and assorted episodes of National Geographic. It’s been years since I heard any narrator say “Cro-MaGnon” or “NeanderTHal.” The WryGuy watches almost nothing but. (Well, Wings and Mail Call, of course.) ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-not-french-pronounce-the-h-lame-rant/171571/17 "2003-04-28T05:34:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by LifeOnWry \* > \*\*As for me, I’ve started pronouncing the “H” in “herbs” and “herbal” just because it makes my 'usband cringe 🙂 \*\* The American insistence on saying “erb” and “erbal” still grates like fingernails on a chalkboard for me, three years after moving to the US. I realize that this is standard American usage, but it doesn’t make it any easier to get used to. [Eddie Izzard] There’s a fuckin’ “h” in it!!! [/Eddie Izzard] 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-not-french-pronounce-the-h-lame-rant/171571/18 "2003-04-28T05:46:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Super Gnat \* > **LifeOnWry** , I’ve never heard anyone say “Cro Man-yon” or “Neandertal”. Very quick Google turned up this: [Neanderthal or Neandertal?](http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/spelling.html) On the OP, it may well be regional / dialectal… I grew up in New Zealand with the usage “an Historical text”… and I would always say “an Heraldic dictionary”… OK, so that doesn’t come up in conversation all that much, but being a herald in the SCA rather more than you might think. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-not-french-pronounce-the-h-lame-rant/171571/19 "2003-04-28T05:51:22Z")
Oh, and just to add… the “H” isn’t silent (at least in the accent with which I am familiar), it may be soft and weak… and probably gets beaten up in the playground by labial fricatives… but it is not completely missing. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-not-french-pronounce-the-h-lame-rant/171571/20 "2003-04-28T07:35:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Joe K \* > \*\*So, ah, who’s the guilty party? \*\* It’s that damn Andy Capp. He thinks he’s all that with his black beer and his hat pulled over his eyes. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-not-french-pronounce-the-h-lame-rant/171571.md?page=2)