# You are not French! Pronounce the "h"! (lame rant) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 28, 2003, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-not-french-pronounce-the-h-lame-rant/171571 "2003-04-28T01:37:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-not-french-pronounce-the-h-lame-rant/171571/21 "2003-04-28T13:18:44Z")
So do the words “honour” and “hour” bug you folks? To answer the question, the word is spelt “lieutenant” and pronounced “leftenant” in all branches of the Canadian armed forces, and in such usages as “lieutenant-governor” and a prime minister’s “Quebec lieutenant.” ---
**Author:** ![racinchikki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eada6e/32.png) [@racinchikki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racinchikki)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-not-french-pronounce-the-h-lame-rant/171571/22 "2003-04-28T16:27:12Z")
I have never heard an American person say “an historical.” When did that start? I’d expect it from non-Americans, but I was unaware that it had a place in the American dialects. ---
**Author:** ![fessie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@fessie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fessie)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-not-french-pronounce-the-h-lame-rant/171571/23 "2003-04-28T16:31:32Z")
Pretty ballsy rant for someone with a superfluous “g”. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-not-french-pronounce-the-h-lame-rant/171571/24 "2003-04-28T17:03:52Z")
I may say “an historical”, but only if I don’t pronounce the h. If I do pronounce it, I change it to “a historical”. ---
**Author:** ![FranticMad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c68b51/32.png) [@FranticMad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FranticMad)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-not-french-pronounce-the-h-lame-rant/171571/25 "2003-04-28T17:22:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Super Gnat \* > **LifeOnWry** , I’ve never heard anyone say “Cro Man-yon” or “Neandertal”. \*\* What cave do you live in? Guess where Cro-Magnon bones were found? If you guessed in Cro-Magnon, France, you’d get 5 points! Now guess how _Cro-Magnon_ is pronounced in French? “Cro-MAG-NON?” Bzzzt! Non! Have you **ever** traveled outside of your village? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-not-french-pronounce-the-h-lame-rant/171571/26 "2003-04-28T17:35:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by FranticMad \* > \*\*What cave do you live in? Guess where Cro-Magnon bones were found? If you guessed in Cro-Magnon, France, you’d get 5 points! > > Now guess how _Cro-Magnon_ is pronounced in French? “Cro-MAG-NON?” Bzzzt! Non! > > Have you **ever** traveled outside of your village? \*\* Was this level of derision really necessary in response to what was a straightforward statement of experience? _SuperGnat_ never offered any assertion as to the correct pronuniation; s/he simply said that s/he had never heard those words pronounced in that particular way before. Lighten up, huh? ---
**Author:** ![FranticMad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c68b51/32.png) [@FranticMad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FranticMad)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-not-french-pronounce-the-h-lame-rant/171571/27 "2003-04-28T17:50:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mhendo \* > **Was this level of derision really necessary in response to what was a straightforward statement of experience? _SuperGnat_ never offered any assertion as to the correct pronuniation** The fact that this thread is posted in the Pit, as well as the general tenor of Super G-nat’s post, makes the whole _raison d’être_ of the thread to be derision of people who speak a different style of English. My suggestion, made somewhat heavy-handedly perhaps, is that Mr. G-nat go out and see the world, as I suspect his/her annoyances are based on ignorance of said world. If he wanted a non-derisive response to his ignorance, he could post in IMHO or General Questions where I would treat him/her with the civility which you think he/she deserves. I, however, think that advertising one’s own ignorance in the Pit deserves a slight textual slap. ---
**Author:** ![racinchikki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eada6e/32.png) [@racinchikki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racinchikki)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-not-french-pronounce-the-h-lame-rant/171571/28 "2003-04-28T18:50:49Z")
You know, I hadn’t known there was a place in France called Cro-Magnon. I thought “Cro-Magnon” was the name for the bones based on some sort of latin term that meant something scientific about the actual bones. Color me ignorant. ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-not-french-pronounce-the-h-lame-rant/171571/29 "2003-04-28T18:53:27Z")
When I was at Oxford, my supervisor said “a historical.” My secondary supervisor said “an historical.” I mean, if anyone was going to give the definitive answer, you’d think it would be the Oxford University Department of Modern History (founded Fifteen Hundred Umpty-Three, AD). Just for the record, NOBODY there said “'istory.” In my experience living in ten cities in three countries and traveling to just about every part of England, Wales and Scotland, I probably only heard someone say it about five or six times, and all in London. Question to drive **matt\_mcl** further up the wall 😃 : If enough people mispronounce a word, is that considered “dialect”? ---
**Author:** ![Zenham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a5b964/32.png) [@Zenham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenham)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-not-french-pronounce-the-h-lame-rant/171571/30 "2003-04-28T19:13:32Z")
Hurray for the OP! Would you like a horse-deeoveres? ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-not-french-pronounce-the-h-lame-rant/171571/31 "2003-04-28T19:21:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by matt\_mcl \* > So do the words “honour” and “hour” bug you folks? No, but “spelt” does.😛 It’s in the dictionary, but it just sounds so archaic. Is that common usage in Canada? ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Carnage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/max_carnage/32/12775_2.png) [@Max\_Carnage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Carnage)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-not-french-pronounce-the-h-lame-rant/171571/32 "2003-04-28T19:22:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by matt\_mcl \* > \*\*So do the words “honour” and “hour” bug you folks? > > \*\* Only that silly extra “u” in “honor” ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-not-french-pronounce-the-h-lame-rant/171571/33 "2003-04-28T19:28:52Z")
“She offered her honor He honored her offer And all through the night He was on her and off her” sorry, I couldn’t control myself ---
**Author:** ![Super\_Gnat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Super\_Gnat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Super_Gnat)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-not-french-pronounce-the-h-lame-rant/171571/34 "2003-04-28T19:52:51Z")
For further reference, this be a she. Now that I am aware of the proper pronunciations of Cro-Magnon and Neanderthal, I shall endeavor to use them in my daily life. I should clarify that “an istorical” doesn’t sound strange to me in a British accent. Also, those Americans that say it naturally probably fly right under my radar. The jarring times are when it seems (to me) to be arrhythmic, as if it was not a natural part of the speaker’s dialect but an affectation. I realize it’s a silly thing to be annoyed by, and I’m sorry if I gave the impression that it in any way affects my opinions and judgements. ---
**Author:** ![Indygrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@Indygrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indygrrl)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-not-french-pronounce-the-h-lame-rant/171571/35 "2003-04-28T19:59:56Z")
It bothers me when Americans spell these words like this: colour cheque theatre I don’t know which other ones, but it drives me slightly nuts. ---
**Author:** ![FranticMad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c68b51/32.png) [@FranticMad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FranticMad)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-not-french-pronounce-the-h-lame-rant/171571/36 "2003-04-28T20:22:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Super Gnat \* > \*\* The jarring times are when it seems (to me) to be arrhythmic, as if it was not a natural part of the speaker’s dialect but an affectation. \*\* Okay, that’s a good point. Hmmm, I wonder if people stall when saying it because no one is really sure what the correct pronounciation is – maybe at the moment the words are leaving the speaker’s lips, she’s thinking “Oh gorf, do I say ‘a historical’ or ‘an historical’ and will I sound like an idjut?” Hence, the irritating overemphasis. Sorry for being rude, before, but I was expecting a cheque today for some theater work I did, and it didn’t never show up today. I’ll chill now. ---
**Author:** ![Lodrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c4cdca/32.png) [@Lodrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lodrain)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-not-french-pronounce-the-h-lame-rant/171571/37 "2003-04-28T20:52:02Z")
I speak standard American English, and I elide the ‘h’ in rapid speech, if ‘historical’ is unstressed: _That was an 'istorical event._ _Historically, that’s inaccurate._ Historically (:D), this is where we got ‘it’ from. It used to be ‘hit’ in stressed positions and ‘it’ otherwise: _I didn’t see 'it._ _Hit’s not meant to be that way._ This still holds true in some conservative dialects of English, especially in the less industrialized regions of the United States. ---
**Author:** ![lisacurl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/41988e/32.png) [@lisacurl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisacurl)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-not-french-pronounce-the-h-lame-rant/171571/38 "2003-04-28T20:52:07Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Apollyon_ > Oh, and just to add… the “H” isn’t silent (at least in the accent with which I am familiar), it may be soft and weak… and probably gets beaten up in the playground by labial fricatives… but it is not completely missing. Thank you, **Apollyon** , for that afternoon nasal coffee douche. I’m glad to know that the $8,000 plus in student loans for that English degree was not in vain. At least I can appreciate jokes about labial fricatives, which, if I may note, is an excellent name for a band. **Indygrrl** , I think that Americans affecting the spelling of “theatre” comes from so many cinemas using that spelling in their business names. Of course, that brings up the whole cinema/theater issue. I’ve gotten into the habit of using the word cinema rather than movie theater because I so often am discussing movies in online forums where the audience is international. Luckily, in verbal discourse in my part of the world, one is more likely to say, “Hey, y’all wanna go to the movies?” ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-not-french-pronounce-the-h-lame-rant/171571/39 "2003-04-28T21:03:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Indygrrl \* > \*\*I don’t know which other ones, but it drives me slightly nuts. \*\* Centre? Through? Armour? I often feel that our form of English is slowly drifting US-wards. I would still always write colour or honour with a “U” (unless of course the latter without a U was someones name – Honor Harrington for instance… and working in IT “color” fails to jar the way it once did), but will tend to write “center” for the middle of a circle… but retain “centre” for a mall. (I note that Websters lists “Rockville Centre” as a proper name, so some historical usage of the british variant appears to persist in the US). What drives me a bit nuts – but makes life more interesting – is working for an NZ company with clients in Oz, US and Canada and being expected to produce documents written in the client’s language and spelling. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-not-french-pronounce-the-h-lame-rant/171571/40 "2003-04-28T21:15:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Amanita \* > **Thank you, Apollyon, for that afternoon nasal coffee douche** You’re most welcome. 'Course, _Nasal Coffee Douche_ would make a good band name too. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-not-french-pronounce-the-h-lame-rant/171571.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-not-french-pronounce-the-h-lame-rant/171571.md?page=3)