# You are Prime Minister, what do you put in your 'Letters of Last Resort'? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 2, 2013, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-prime-minister-what-do-you-put-in-your-letters-of-last-resort/667834 "2013-09-02T22:06:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Atomic\_Alex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atomic_alex/32/175_2.png) [@Atomic\_Alex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomic_Alex)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2013, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-prime-minister-what-do-you-put-in-your-letters-of-last-resort/667834/21 "2013-09-04T21:22:12Z")
Thanks for the answers everyone, its certainly made me pause and reconsider my initial reply, though I still think I wouldn’t order a retaliatory response I would hold on to the warheads…just in case. > [@Quartz](#): > > It’s faintly possible that a terrorist could detonate a nuke over London causing GCA to be destroyed (e.g. during a vote of No Confidence). All MPs will be there, Brenda will be to hand etc. Or their could be a large meteor strike. So the first option is out as a simple option, though if Britain were clearly and massively nuked by a foreign country, I would order a massive retaliatory strike. Would a single strike on London be enough to even theoritically take out all command and control? Surely the UK has backup plans in case of that very scenario. Granted the immediate aftermath would probably be utter confusion but somebody or some group should be able to fairly quickly step into the leadership role. > [@Quartz](#): > > However, the Armed Forces swear fealty to the Crown, not the Government, and the order of succession is well planned, so my orders in a scenario other than the above would be to await the order of the next Monarch. Could a monarch order or direct a military response though? The Armed Forces swear loyalty to the Crown but real power rests with the civilian government. Though with London and said civilian government gone I wonder how far down the chain of succession the new monarch would be? > [@usedtobe](#): > > Saying “You handle it” may have been the best option - it you know what your missiles are going to hit, you, as the commander, knows more about whether to launch or not - if launching is going to take out Volgograd, but the attack came from Pakistan, your knowledge is better than the PM’s “launch everything you’ve got”. The third option still doesn’t sit well with me but I can see the logic, however if there are four ballistic missile submarines then thats four potential different centres of decision making, one commander may choose to launch while the other three hold off. _(I’m aware that one sub is always in for refit but it could still ‘launch from the pier’ assuming it wasn’t destroyed in the initial attack)_ > [@usedtobe](#): > > I agree that revenge is a valid option - that is the entire purpose of the sub-based nuke! Those subs can stay submerged for years while cruising the globe - they are there to ensure that attacking you will be very expensive, even if they win. > [@silenus](#): > > Nuke 'em 'til they glow, then bounce the rubble. > > I have no problem with vengeance. > [@Doctor\_Jackson](#): > > Keep pressing the big, red “Fire!” button until your fingers bleed. > [@Doctor\_Jackson](#): > > The purpose of those subs is now vengeance - by the time you lose C&C, the UK has lost - forget military targets - you are not going to win a war that’s already lost - make the bastards pay dearly I have no problem with retaliating against the enemy political and military leadership but not against the civilian population, especially in a nation like the USSR or North Korea how much say does the average citizen have over the policies and actions of their leadership? > [@usedtobe](#): > > Not familiar with targeting problems, are we? > > What are the default targets? How many missiles are targeted at the same thing? That bunker with the entire military command in it HAS to be destroyed. Not every missile is going to hit target - some will be shot down, some will be knocked off course. > Maybe each sub has one missile aimed at it, just to make sure. > Without C&C to tell you that a bomber has already taken it out, blindly shooting everything is going to make that rubble the world’s most expensive rubble - and have absolutely zero strategic value. I’m not sure what you mean by the above, could you rephrase it? This time preferably without the snark? ---
**Author:** ![Atomic\_Alex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atomic_alex/32/175_2.png) [@Atomic\_Alex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomic_Alex)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2013, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-prime-minister-what-do-you-put-in-your-letters-of-last-resort/667834/22 "2013-09-04T22:16:23Z")
btw I forgot to say, I like your answer Baron Greenback! Anyway, off to bed… ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2013, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-prime-minister-what-do-you-put-in-your-letters-of-last-resort/667834/23 "2013-09-04T22:31:23Z")
> [@Disposable Hero](#): > > Would a single strike on London be enough to even theoritically take out all command and control? Surely the UK has backup plans in case of that very scenario. Granted the immediate aftermath would probably be utter confusion but somebody or some group should be able to fairly quickly step into the leadership role. I believe there are measures in place. > [@Disposable Hero](#): > > Could a monarch order or direct a military response though? Absolutely. Many have seen military service. Harry and Andrew, for instance, have served honourably (if not with distinction) in battle. And it was only a little over 200 years ago that a British monarch last led his troops in battle. > [@](#): > > The Armed Forces swear loyalty to the Crown but real power rests with the civilian government. Though with London and said civilian government gone I wonder how far down the chain of succession the new monarch would be? But the government probably isn’t there any more. The new Monarch will likely gather as many members of the Privy Council (who are mainly senior politicians) as are available and rule through that until a new Parliament can be elected. ---
**Author:** ![DeptfordX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DeptfordX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeptfordX)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2013, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-prime-minister-what-do-you-put-in-your-letters-of-last-resort/667834/24 "2013-09-04T22:44:36Z")
The meteor strike is an interesting scenario though. What happens if a 1000 megaton equivalent asteroid comes rolling in and takes out the UK. When they lose contact with, i presume, routine status reports. How much checking do they do before opening the sealed orders. Hopefully they at least run up an antennae and scan the airwaves for information. ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2013, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-prime-minister-what-do-you-put-in-your-letters-of-last-resort/667834/25 "2013-09-05T00:44:23Z")
> [@Disposable Hero](#): > > > [@usedtobe](#): > > > > Not familiar with targeting problems, are we? > > > > What are the default targets? How many missiles are targeted at the same thing? That bunker with the entire military command in it HAS to be destroyed. Not every missile is going to hit target - some will be shot down, some will be knocked off course. > > Maybe each sub has one missile aimed at it, just to make sure. > > Without C&C to tell you that a bomber has already taken it out, blindly shooting everything is going to make that rubble the world’s most expensive rubble - and have absolutely zero strategic value. > > I’m not sure what you mean by the above, could you rephrase it? This time preferably without the snark? This is why the US once had on the order of 17,000 nukes - you can’t be sure every warhead will reach its target - so, in addition to the first one aimed at the bunker, you need at least five to ensure one of them will hit. Oopps! They just installed an anti-missile defense for that bunker - we will need to take out that missile battery BEFORE we launch those 5 actually aimed at the bunker. Add another 5 to make sure those don’t kill the original 5. You now need 10 warheads to take out that bunker. Add in a few for each other possible defending system, and things get out of hand real quick. Now, repeat process with the subs - if you have one of you boats docked, it is going to be the first thing to be destroyed. What if it was the one with the 10 warheads for that super-critical target? You are going to allocate at least some of the warheads on the other boats to replace those. If the bomber has already taken that bunker out, you need to either re-target those warheads or waste them. This is why C&C is such a critical strategic tool, and why it is the first thing destroyed in a war. The Internet was developed by the US DoD to use the ATT network to entirely duplicate the DoD’s own network, should somebody actually manage to take it out. Now do you see the need for the remaining boats to get current info and work out who does what with the remaining weapons. And yes, they should know the status of friendly and enemy communications and who controls them. There is a story that during one of the Arab v Israel wars, Egyptian fighters got into Israeli airspace, The Israel air controllers switched to the Egyptian frequency and hailed the pilots: Brothers! Great News! We have captured the city! Land and join the celebration! You are Heroes! It worked. Once things get hot, communication is vital - had the pilots checked in with THEIR homes, they would have known that the city had not been captured, and the war would have been a very different war. Before you act on instructions from some other country, you’d damned well know who is sending those orders. ---
**Author:** ![Werekoala](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7993a0/32.png) [@Werekoala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Werekoala)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2013, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-prime-minister-what-do-you-put-in-your-letters-of-last-resort/667834/26 "2013-09-05T03:28:36Z")
If you have been advised we are at war (and I assume there would be enough time to send the message out that ICBMs were inbound), then retaliate against the aggressor per your pre-coded launch instructions. If you lose contact suddenly, without a clear indication as to who attacked, then link up with surviving UK forces (as previously mentioned, Canada, Australia, New Zealand) and await further orders. If they are off-line, attempt link-up with United States Forces. If they are off-line, proceed on your own recognizance. God save the Queen. (note: I’m a 'murrican - I assume the pre-written orders given to any ballistic missile sub commander would be similar, with their own nations substituted for the UK as appropriate) ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2013, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-prime-minister-what-do-you-put-in-your-letters-of-last-resort/667834/27 "2013-09-05T06:02:22Z")
Do whatever the Doctor says. ---
**Author:** ![Gleena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b3f665/32.png) [@Gleena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gleena)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2013, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-prime-minister-what-do-you-put-in-your-letters-of-last-resort/667834/28 "2013-09-05T06:47:48Z")
Canada, New Zealand and Australia are not UK forces. Those are sovereign nations. Commonwealth, I think you mean. ---
**Author:** ![fanganga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/58f4c7/32.png) [@fanganga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fanganga)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2013, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-prime-minister-what-do-you-put-in-your-letters-of-last-resort/667834/29 "2013-09-05T08:45:03Z")
> [@Werekoala](#): > > (note: I’m a 'murrican - I assume the pre-written orders given to any ballistic missile sub commander would be similar, with their own nations substituted for the UK as appropriate) I’ve only seen reference to British letters of last resort, and numerous opinions that having such things weakens deterrence because they introduce doubt as to whether or not retaliation will actually be forthcoming - from a deterrence perspective, I can see the benefit of having a policy of retaliation that everybody, especially potential enemies knows about and I’m wondering if other countries have that system. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2013, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-prime-minister-what-do-you-put-in-your-letters-of-last-resort/667834/30 "2013-09-05T12:15:16Z")
Head for Australia and establish communication with the Australian authorities. If communication cannot be established and/or Australia has been overrun or destroyed by the enemy, scuttle the boat and save the crew. Don’t fire the nukes. If you manage to get to a shore safely, quickly re-establish The Ministry Of Silly Walks. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2013, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-prime-minister-what-do-you-put-in-your-letters-of-last-resort/667834/31 "2013-09-15T21:53:34Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > It is entirely possible that the government has been destroyed, but the enemy has _not_ yet completed his nuclear strike, or intends to follow-up with conventional forces. Even in the wake of a crippling nuclear attack, degrading your enemy’s capacity to exploit that attack makes good sense. I would order Her Majesty’s submarines to launch their nukes in accordance with their standard targeting plan, so long as the source of the attack were unambiguous. These would be my orders, as well. Since the subs are armed with torpedoes, as well ([Vanguard-class submarine - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanguard_class_submarine)), and since some of our enemies’ warships may still be at sea, I would order the captain to carry out attacks against our foes while able to do so, and then to proceed to the nearest relatively safe allied port (U.S., Canadian, Australian or New Zealand) and place himself under the command of that nation. See _The Last Ship_ by William Brinkley for a similar scenario involving a U.S. guided-missile destroyer caught up in WWIII. ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-prime-minister-what-do-you-put-in-your-letters-of-last-resort/667834/32 "2013-09-16T00:04:20Z")
‘Exterminate all the brutes’. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-prime-minister-what-do-you-put-in-your-letters-of-last-resort/667834/33 "2013-09-16T12:34:56Z")
> [@Werekoala](#): > > If you have been advised we are at war (and I assume there would be enough time to send the message out that ICBMs were inbound), then retaliate against the aggressor per your pre-coded launch instructions. > > If you lose contact suddenly, without a clear indication as to who attacked, then link up with surviving UK forces (as previously mentioned, Canada, Australia, New Zealand) and await further orders. > > If they are off-line, attempt link-up with United States Forces. > > If they are off-line, proceed on your own recognizance. > … I think this sums it up well, though I would make a slight change. Keep #1: #1) If you have been advised we are at war (and I assume there would be enough time to send the message out that ICBMs were inbound), then retaliate against the aggressor per your pre-coded launch instructions. #2) If you lose contact, try to establish contact with other UK forces #3) Next try to coordinate with surviving NATO command structure/forces. #4) If they are off-line, proceed on your own recognizance. Sorry to give short shrift to Australia & New Zealand, but I think NATO should take precedence. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-prime-minister-what-do-you-put-in-your-letters-of-last-resort/667834/34 "2013-09-16T13:12:20Z")
Yours truly started a [similar thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=610331) entitled “You’re the POTUS. A nuclear first strike is inbound. Do you authorise the second strike?” I meant “retaliatory strike” rather than “second strike”, but feelings ran strong, from letting rip with everything in the American arsenal until the remains of Moscow glowed, to attempting a limited strike on military targets, to doing absolutely nothing at all since MAD had already failed. If I were in command of the _Vanguard_ class subs I’d order them to attempt to link up with remaining NATO and Commonwealth nations to establish what has actually happened before surfacing and firing, once it had been established to the commander’s satisfaction that the UK had been attacked with nuclear weapons from a foreign power it is time for the ultimate defence of the realm. Make priority targets any likely remaining nuclear capabilities said power has and military bases. If the submarine is in imminent danger of being sunk then fire at any targets of opportunity. If in doubt; head to Australia and read _On the Beach_. ---
**Author:** ![Virgil\_Tibbs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/c4cdca/32.png) [@Virgil\_Tibbs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Virgil_Tibbs)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-prime-minister-what-do-you-put-in-your-letters-of-last-resort/667834/35 "2013-09-16T13:22:28Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > I’ve taken the liberty of asking the Commander-in-Chief, Queen Elizabeth, to also sign this part of the letter. Scuttle her in the Holy Loch if you have to. Good luck, Captain, God bless you and your crew, and please forgive us for failing the world so badly. > > Prime Minister, > The Baron Greenback I think scuttling the queen is taking things a little too far. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-prime-minister-what-do-you-put-in-your-letters-of-last-resort/667834/36 "2013-09-16T15:07:00Z")
Find a desert island well away from the fallout zone. Restart civilization. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-prime-minister-what-do-you-put-in-your-letters-of-last-resort/667834/37 "2013-09-16T16:24:20Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > What, no love for the Falklands? Nuke Argentina. It’s the only way to be sure. 20 years ago, I would have said nukes might be an option but not knowing who it is (foreign terrorists, Iran, domestic terrorists, Iceland [Bjork is crazy]) they have to be off the table. And I disagree with putting yourself under U.S. control. I’ve gone to school in England and love it and hope to be an expatriate in London in a couple of years and hell I maybe even become a British citizen 5 years after that but I can tell you that we don’t think like the British and that is not what you want in that situation. So my Letter of Last Resort is to report to the nearest Commonwealth country. God Save the Queen! ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-prime-minister-what-do-you-put-in-your-letters-of-last-resort/667834/38 "2013-09-16T16:33:40Z")
It would begin: _“Before the command for “weapons free,” The Captain must answer these riddles three…”_ And then I have to think about the next few parts a little bit. One is definitely going to be about an island of Liars and Truth-tellers. ---
**Author:** ![Atomic\_Alex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atomic_alex/32/175_2.png) [@Atomic\_Alex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomic_Alex)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-prime-minister-what-do-you-put-in-your-letters-of-last-resort/667834/39 "2013-09-17T21:25:31Z")
Thanks for the answers everyone! > [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > Yours truly started a [similar thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=610331) entitled “You’re the POTUS. A nuclear first strike is inbound. Do you authorise the second strike?” Thanks for the link! > [@Ravenman](#): > > It would begin: > > _“Before the command for “weapons free,” > The Captain must answer these riddles three…”_ > > And then I have to think about the next few parts a little bit. One is definitely going to be about an island of Liars and Truth-tellers. I have to admit that one made me genuinely laugh out loud. Currently reading a very well done Cold War Gone Hot timeline on another forum: > **[Protect and Survive: A Timeline](https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/protect-and-survive-a-timeline.164027/)** > > I: Nuclear Explosions Explained > > They are like ordinary explosions, only many times more powerful. > > It is academic to argue whether the conflict between NATO and the Warsaw Pact was inevitable. Such geo-political and philosophical arguments are... I’m not sure what the policy is on linking to other forums, if its against standard operating procedure I apologise profusely and any mods feel free to nuke it with extreme prejudice. edited to add a random thought: one of my favourite movies growing up was the HBO Special, ‘By Dawns Early Light’, rewatched it recently and it still stands up well, the book its based on ‘Trinity’s Child’ isn’t as good as the movie but still worth a read. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-prime-minister-what-do-you-put-in-your-letters-of-last-resort/667834/40 "2013-09-18T03:04:23Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > So my Letter of Last Resort is to report to the nearest Commonwealth country. God Save the Queen! Even if that Commonwealth country is some dump like Nigeria, Bangladesh or Pakistan? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-prime-minister-what-do-you-put-in-your-letters-of-last-resort/667834.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-prime-minister-what-do-you-put-in-your-letters-of-last-resort/667834.md?page=3)