# You are transported to a forest. How long until you make a fire? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 4, 2012, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-transported-to-a-forest-how-long-until-you-make-a-fire/627208 "2012-07-04T13:19:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-transported-to-a-forest-how-long-until-you-make-a-fire/627208/21 "2012-07-05T02:58:27Z")
With just what I’m wearing right now…forever. But dressed as I usually am, maybe a couple of hours. I know the procedures and have done them before. I’d search out flint first before trying friction. But the laces on my running shoes are quite long, so they would work well in a bow. ---
**Author:** ![Qwakkeddup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/90ced4/32.png) [@Qwakkeddup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qwakkeddup)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-transported-to-a-forest-how-long-until-you-make-a-fire/627208/22 "2012-07-05T05:00:52Z")
Last week I went out side and piled up some dryish branches and made myself a little kindle bundle. I used a magnesium bar and a multitool. Having read instructions, and watched a few YouTube vids, I was confident I would have a roaring fire in just a few minutes. Confident enough that I tried to do this at 12:00 am in the dark. After the first 15 minutes I used a lighter to light my Coleman lantern. 15 more minutes I took the kindle pile over by the lantern to make sure I had a good pile of shavings and got my first burst of flame. Lost before I made it back to my burn pile. All in all, it took me 45 minutes at least, not including lighting the lantern or piling and collecting the fuel. Just the shaving and igniting parts to get a fire started that actually made it to a full fledged fire. I now have some knowledge on how to, and some experience, and I firmly believe that even with the Mag bar, it will take at least an hour to build a fire if I really have to. Unless I have lighter fluid, lighter, charcoal, or firewood ready to go. ---
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-transported-to-a-forest-how-long-until-you-make-a-fire/627208/23 "2012-07-05T05:05:27Z")
The clothes on my back, like, right now? I’m gonna die. 😛 Otherwise, I know the theories on how to make fire, I’m just not up on any kind of practical experience. I think I’d need some endurance and some pretty intense focus to get a fire started with raw materials. ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-transported-to-a-forest-how-long-until-you-make-a-fire/627208/24 "2012-07-05T07:24:43Z")
With the lighter I always carry in my pocket? A couple of minutes at the worst. ---
**Author:** ![madrabbitwoman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c37758/32.png) [@madrabbitwoman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madrabbitwoman)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-transported-to-a-forest-how-long-until-you-make-a-fire/627208/25 "2012-07-05T07:43:35Z")
I can start a fire but it would probably take all night ---
**Author:** ![Cazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cazzle/32/75_2.png) [@Cazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cazzle)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-transported-to-a-forest-how-long-until-you-make-a-fire/627208/26 "2012-07-05T07:54:11Z")
With a backpack full of boxes of matches, several cans of gasoline and a fully stocked woodshed, I think I would still manage to freeze to death the first night. I have the survival instincts of a soap bubble. I suspect my daughter is the same… At the zoo she wanted to jump in the swimming hole with the brown bears and she was yelling at the sleeping lions to wake up. Now to self: acquire basic survival skills, just in case. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-transported-to-a-forest-how-long-until-you-make-a-fire/627208/27 "2012-07-05T07:56:30Z")
I think everyone contributing to this thread should say whether they have _actually done before_, to completion (ie actual fire) what it is they think they could do to produce a fire. Because my experience is - as \*\*Toxylon \*\*says - that it is far, far harder than it looks on any video or in any set of instructions. Also, my experience is that getting sparks and embers is one thing but getting a fire is another whole thing altogether. Those who think they can produce sparks or that they can use a magnifying glass, have you actually made a fire this way? It’s _hard_. Getting the sparks or the glowing spot is nuthin’. ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-transported-to-a-forest-how-long-until-you-make-a-fire/627208/28 "2012-07-05T13:28:09Z")
Given that I could find the correct materials with relative ease, a few hours. I’ve made friction fires before, but I pretty much never travel without two methods of making fire on me at any time. I have a tiny lighter that fits on my keyring, as well as an itty bitty magnifying glass that focuses the sun adequately to start a fire. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-transported-to-a-forest-how-long-until-you-make-a-fire/627208/29 "2012-07-05T13:30:18Z")
> [@August\_West](#): > > Don’t you have shoelaces?? 😃 Didn’t know if clothes were allowed as part of the solution. I may start wearing a belt with a built in flint for just such emergencies. ---
**Author:** ![minlokwat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/minlokwat/32/2844_2.png) [@minlokwat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minlokwat)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-transported-to-a-forest-how-long-until-you-make-a-fire/627208/30 "2012-07-05T13:30:50Z")
> [@Nars\_Glinley](#): > > Would that help? ISTM that they would burn your face if they could be used for starting a fire. When this was done on _Survivor_, I remember Yau Man (that was the contestant’s name) had placed a drop of water on his lens before concentrating the beam on the target. Speaking of _Survivor_, I’ve always wondered why the hell don’t the contestants come in having practiced making fire on their own. You would think once the contestants were selected, they would naturally brush up on, you know, survivor skills such as making a fire. Considering **Toxylon** ’s experience and very informative post, seems there’s a bit more to it than meets the eye. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-transported-to-a-forest-how-long-until-you-make-a-fire/627208/31 "2012-07-05T14:03:47Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > I think everyone contributing to this thread should say whether they have _actually done before_, to completion (ie actual fire) what it is they think they could do to produce a fire. Because my experience is - as \*\*Toxylon \*\*says - that it is far, far harder than it looks on any video or in any set of instructions. Also, my experience is that getting sparks and embers is one thing but getting a fire is another whole thing altogether. Those who think they can produce sparks or that they can use a magnifying glass, have you actually made a fire this way? It’s _hard_. Getting the sparks or the glowing spot is nuthin’. I’ve done it by friction, using a bow-drill (well, under the guidance of my grandfather providing the prepared materials and standing over me telling me what to do - I have no confidence in my ability to replicate this with stuff I have to prepare myself), and with a magnifying glass. Never done it with flint and steel, except with a ready-made firestarter (that hardly counts). With a bow-drill everything has to be just so. Magnifying glass on a sunny day struck me as being around 50 times easier than friction, maybe 100 times. The trick is having material that readily burns when you get the glowing happening, rather than simply chars. What I’ve used is very fine bits of birchbark, rather than paper. Seemed to work pretty well - paper tends to just turn black and char, but birchbark is more likely to actually ignite. Once you have that initial bit of flame on birchbark, the job is done - easy enough to feed more bark, then twigs, kindling, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Tad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/278dde/32.png) [@Tad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tad)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-transported-to-a-forest-how-long-until-you-make-a-fire/627208/32 "2012-07-05T14:17:54Z")
> [@Toxylon](#): > > Friction fire enthusiast checking in (several hundred friction fires using dozens of different materials in various natural environments under my belt). Twice I’ve made fire on the spot in the woods using only natural materials collected as I go, plus a pocket knife. Without the knife, shaping the pieces of the hand drill sets would’ve taken maybe an hour each instead of five minutes (making notches in wood is particularly tedious with improvised tools). The actual making of fire takes a couple of minutes, from starting the drilling to a roaring fire, given dry, warm conditions (not likely in a true survival situation). > > In my opinion, unless the scenario in the OP takes place in an extremely dry environment, the inexperienced person has no way to succeed. Making fire by friction doesn’t take just perseverance and a desperate need for heat and light. Many little things have to be just so for the method to work. Getting wood hot by applying muscle is dead easy. Creating a wisp of smoke by rubbing two dry sticks together is doable by any fit person. But, unlike most people assume, there’s a huge leap from smoking sticks to an actual ember. > > If the two pieces of wood are incompatible in terms of dust quality, no ember - no matter how much smoke pours out. If the woods are not shaped just so the wood dust collects into a single spot for ignition to take place, no willpower will overcome the flaw. Moisture is a big hindrance to impromptu attempts at friction fire. Most materials in most environments are simply too wet to work as is, even if workmanship and technique is flawless. Details like whether the hearthboard is 1/2" or 5/16" thick (totally dependent on the properties that particular piece of wood has in relation to the other particular piece of wood in the set) may easily make or break the try. > > Few things wear a person down as quickly as trying the get an ember from two sticks. The hypothetical inexperienced, fit person in the woods has a couple of real tries to succeed before muscles give out, blisters pop and desperation sets in. Even an experienced, fit person has to expend energy wisely from start to finish to succeed in friction fire under field conditions. > > Having trained dozens of motivated people in the hand drill method, I’ve never seen anyone with good enough a technique to make it on their own. I’d estimate, given an excellent pre-made set and intense hands-on coaching, maybe one person in ten succeeds in creating an ember without further training sessions. Having done it is only half-way there, though. The tiny ember has to be transported into a just-so tinder nest, pre-made and bone-dry, and blown into a flame. No small task, as there’s every chance of killing the ember before it grows, especially when out of breath and shaking from exertion. Blow too little a couple of seconds too late, and the ember dies. Fail to squeeze the nest gently just as it starts to open up from the heat, and the ember breaks down etc. Myriad ways to mess it up, as in every step of the way. > > Making fire on the spot would have been a challenge to a hunter-gatherer, as well. Friction fire materials were traditionally collected from specific spots in specific times of year, collected and cured in advance and taken great care of. The Hadzabe of Tanzania, for instance, get their fire sticks from one particular slope of a mountain, up to 60 km from their hunting camps. No sticks growing nearer will do. > > The fire plow, as depicted in _Castaway_, is the most difficult, skill-dependent friction fire method there is. Any other method would have been more realistic, although not by much. The scene itself was realistic, all the way to the crucial moment. The feeble output by Hanks, the hearthboard, rocking this way and that, the sound of wood getting polished instead of wearing down, next to no smoke…just what a beginner would look and sound like. Then, BAM! Fire, out of the blue. > > The European folk methods of making a need-fire, as presented by Frazer, were dependent on heavily-worked, pre-made wooden implements and plenty of manpower. Even then, the components had to be just so. > > I’d say it is more likely for a totally inexperienced driver to take a manual-transmission car through heavy city traffic without stalling once and then parallel-parking succesfully, without coaching, than an inexperienced person to succeed in making friction fire in the woods, solo. > > ETA: The ‘patent’ combination of a hardwood stick rubbing a softwood groove is an old wives’ tale that kept me from succeeding for a long time. For maximum friction (= heat), two pieces of wood of _equal_ hardness work infinitely better. Great post. I’m certainly not an enthusiast, but I do come from the North and was very interested in these kinds of tools and knowledge and so I’ve learned my way around friction-made fires and some flint/spark fires. So I answer that, depending on my surroundings, it may take something like 5 hours or more–but I’d get one made without much confusion or trouble. If not, I know lots of other ways to keep warm depending on the season and the climate. ---
**Author:** ![gwendee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/35a633/32.png) [@gwendee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gwendee)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-transported-to-a-forest-how-long-until-you-make-a-fire/627208/33 "2012-07-05T17:38:29Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > I’m really starting to hate the way this tablet auto-corrects the word I’ve into the name I’very. I wasn’t even aware of Ivery as a name. Whenever I type " I’ " my phone handily suggests O’Neil. O’Neil, really? As far as I know I’ve never had occasion to type O’Neil on my phone. I’m, I’ll, I’ve and I’d all come in handy in text messages and are used frequently. But no, O’Neil wins the race to the front of the line. Regarding the actual thread: I’m in a heat wave plagued area and the air conditioning isn’t functioning at work. My gut reaction was that it will be at least two weeks before I feel cool enough to need a fire. In a situation of real need I can be focused and determined, but if building a fire weren’t a matter of someone’s life and I could stay warm enough by lying next to a decomposing log I probably wouldn’t go to the trouble of making a fire. But all this talk of making fire has me thinking of the King Louie (Louis Prima) scene in Disney’s **Jungle Book**. Think I’ll go watch that. ---
**Author:** ![Chopper9760](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cdc98d/32.png) [@Chopper9760](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chopper9760)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-transported-to-a-forest-how-long-until-you-make-a-fire/627208/34 "2012-07-05T21:46:07Z")
I always carry a knife so that’s a plus but I don’t know if I could start a friction fire. Maybe if it was late summer and everything was nice and dry. Knowing that it’s possible would lend perseverance but I wouldn’t be surprised if I couldn’t do it. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-transported-to-a-forest-how-long-until-you-make-a-fire/627208/35 "2012-07-05T21:51:47Z")
Sure, I could do it. Just strangle a camper with my pants and take his fire. ---
**Author:** ![Ibanez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a4c791/32.png) [@Ibanez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibanez)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-transported-to-a-forest-how-long-until-you-make-a-fire/627208/36 "2012-07-05T21:58:07Z")
> [@Toxylon](#): > > Friction fire enthusiast checking in …\. Very informative, thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2012, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-transported-to-a-forest-how-long-until-you-make-a-fire/627208/37 "2012-07-06T12:38:03Z")
I’m traveling in the Philippines at the moment. This afternoon I saw a demonstration of friction fire-making by the Aeta, a local jungle-dwelling indigenous (Negrito) group. They used shavings from bamboo for tinder, then placed a large halved bamboo stem over it. They rubbed another bamboo stem in a groove in the bottom stem with a hole over the tinder. It took about 30 seconds of rubbing for the tinder to ignite from the hot dust falling from above, and then careful blowing made a flame. The whole process took maybe 2 minutes. I’m sure this is much harder than it looks, and requires a lot of practice to get right. And they were using a steel knife to shave the tinder and trim the hole in the bamboo. But assuming dry bamboo is available, plus a sharp rock to make shavings and a hole, it didn’t look to be too difficult to duplicate given some time. Of course, if you’re lost in a blizzard in the Yukon knowing how to make a fire from dry bamboo might not help very much.🙂 ---
**Author:** ![fisheatingbagel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b5e925/32.png) [@fisheatingbagel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fisheatingbagel)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2012, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-transported-to-a-forest-how-long-until-you-make-a-fire/627208/38 "2012-07-06T13:34:29Z")
> [@Toxylon](#): > > Friction fire enthusiast checking in (several hundred friction fires using dozens of different materials in various natural environments under my belt). Twice I’ve made fire on the spot in the woods using only natural materials collected as I go, plus a pocket knife. Without the knife, shaping the pieces of the hand drill sets would’ve taken maybe an hour each instead of five minutes (making notches in wood is particularly tedious with improvised tools). The actual making of fire takes a couple of minutes, from starting the drilling to a roaring fire, given dry, warm conditions (not likely in a true survival situation). > > In my opinion, unless the scenario in the OP takes place in an extremely dry environment, the inexperienced person has no way to succeed. Making fire by friction doesn’t take just perseverance and a desperate need for heat and light. Many little things have to be just so for the method to work. Getting wood hot by applying muscle is dead easy. Creating a wisp of smoke by rubbing two dry sticks together is doable by any fit person. But, unlike most people assume, there’s a huge leap from smoking sticks to an actual ember. > > If the two pieces of wood are incompatible in terms of dust quality, no ember - no matter how much smoke pours out. If the woods are not shaped just so the wood dust collects into a single spot for ignition to take place, no willpower will overcome the flaw. Moisture is a big hindrance to impromptu attempts at friction fire. Most materials in most environments are simply too wet to work as is, even if workmanship and technique is flawless. Details like whether the hearthboard is 1/2" or 5/16" thick (totally dependent on the properties that particular piece of wood has in relation to the other particular piece of wood in the set) may easily make or break the try. > > Few things wear a person down as quickly as trying the get an ember from two sticks. The hypothetical inexperienced, fit person in the woods has a couple of real tries to succeed before muscles give out, blisters pop and desperation sets in. Even an experienced, fit person has to expend energy wisely from start to finish to succeed in friction fire under field conditions. > > Having trained dozens of motivated people in the hand drill method, I’ve never seen anyone with good enough a technique to make it on their own. I’d estimate, given an excellent pre-made set and intense hands-on coaching, maybe one person in ten succeeds in creating an ember without further training sessions. Having done it is only half-way there, though. The tiny ember has to be transported into a just-so tinder nest, pre-made and bone-dry, and blown into a flame. No small task, as there’s every chance of killing the ember before it grows, especially when out of breath and shaking from exertion. Blow too little a couple of seconds too late, and the ember dies. Fail to squeeze the nest gently just as it starts to open up from the heat, and the ember breaks down etc. Myriad ways to mess it up, as in every step of the way. > > Making fire on the spot would have been a challenge to a hunter-gatherer, as well. Friction fire materials were traditionally collected from specific spots in specific times of year, collected and cured in advance and taken great care of. The Hadzabe of Tanzania, for instance, get their fire sticks from one particular slope of a mountain, up to 60 km from their hunting camps. No sticks growing nearer will do. > > The fire plow, as depicted in _Castaway_, is the most difficult, skill-dependent friction fire method there is. Any other method would have been more realistic, although not by much. The scene itself was realistic, all the way to the crucial moment. The feeble output by Hanks, the hearthboard, rocking this way and that, the sound of wood getting polished instead of wearing down, next to no smoke…just what a beginner would look and sound like. Then, BAM! Fire, out of the blue. > > The European folk methods of making a need-fire, as presented by Frazer, were dependent on heavily-worked, pre-made wooden implements and plenty of manpower. Even then, the components had to be just so. > > I’d say it is more likely for a totally inexperienced driver to take a manual-transmission car through heavy city traffic without stalling once and then parallel-parking succesfully, without coaching, than an inexperienced person to succeed in making friction fire in the woods, solo. > > ETA: The ‘patent’ combination of a hardwood stick rubbing a softwood groove is an old wives’ tale that kept me from succeeding for a long time. For maximum friction (= heat), two pieces of wood of _equal_ hardness work infinitely better. I can vouch for this. For the past 3 or 4 years, I’ve organized a yearly fire starting contest with friends and people from work. The rules have changed a bit over the years, but basically I provide a kit of materials containing tinder (dryer lint, wood shavings), dowel rod, string, fireblock for making a bow drill, 9 volt battery, 22 gauge copper wire. The contest takes place on a river beach with lots of drift wood, rocks and all sorts of accumulated trash from when the river is in spring flood. Contestants are able to bring knives and other basic tools, but no obvious flammables. Out of maybe 25 or 30 contestants, no one has been able to make a fire using a bow drill. There has been lots of smoke, hot sawdust, but that’s it. The second year, I allowed people to bring their own tinder and using charcloth , chert and a knife several people had water boiling in a few minutes (the winner is the first person to boil a cup of water) - I doubt you could do faster with a lighter. ---
**Author:** ![MegaBee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f0a364/32.png) [@MegaBee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MegaBee)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2012, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-transported-to-a-forest-how-long-until-you-make-a-fire/627208/39 "2012-07-06T15:02:24Z")
Yeah, that fire’s not getting started unless I have matches or a lighter. ---
**Author:** ![pohjonen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pohjonen/32/423_2.png) [@pohjonen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pohjonen)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2012, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-transported-to-a-forest-how-long-until-you-make-a-fire/627208/40 "2012-07-06T23:05:48Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > I would just die, I have no outdoorsy skills at all. I’d be eating all of the poison berries and trying to pet the wolves Just wanted to say I like your post. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-transported-to-a-forest-how-long-until-you-make-a-fire/627208.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-are-transported-to-a-forest-how-long-until-you-make-a-fire/627208.md?page=3)