# You better get yourself a good lawyer, Captain. (Open Trek spoilers likely) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 2, 2006, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-better-get-yourself-a-good-lawyer-captain-open-trek-spoilers-likely/359160 "2006-06-02T17:01:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2006, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-better-get-yourself-a-good-lawyer-captain-open-trek-spoilers-likely/359160/41 "2006-06-04T23:16:49Z")
> [@Raguleader](#): > > IIRC, in the kids vs. Ferengi episode, a number of the kids were actual Starfleet officers (Picard, Guinan, and maybe Troi, I can’t remember) who got de-aged in a transporter accident. So basically they weren’t REALLY kids (though I think they may have gotten some real kids to help them, I’m not sure). Picard, Ro, Keiko O’Brien and Guinan (the last two aren’t Starfleet). Alexander, son of Worf, helps out. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2006, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-better-get-yourself-a-good-lawyer-captain-open-trek-spoilers-likely/359160/42 "2006-06-04T23:28:55Z")
How about that DS9 episode where Sisko dumped toxic waste on that one human colony in relaliation for a terrorist attack against a Cardassian colony. WTF? Did Starfleet learn its problem-solving skills from the Israelis? Wasn’t that some sort of Crime Against Humanity (or whatever the intergalactic equivalent of that crime would be)? To make matters worse, he did it without any approval from his superiors. In any real-world scenario, that would be guaranteed life in prison. > [@Otto](#): > > Picard, Ro, Keiko O’Brien and Guinan (the last two aren’t Starfleet). Alexander, son of Worf, helps out. Wasn’t Keiko some sort of low-level officer, like a teacher or something? ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2006, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-better-get-yourself-a-good-lawyer-captain-open-trek-spoilers-likely/359160/43 "2006-06-04T23:42:03Z")
She’s a civilian botanist although she did teach for a few years on Deep Space Nine due to the station having no immediate use of her specialty. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2006, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-better-get-yourself-a-good-lawyer-captain-open-trek-spoilers-likely/359160/44 "2006-06-04T23:46:23Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > WTF? Did Starfleet learn its problem-solving skills from the Israelis? Excuse me? ;j ---
**Author:** ![chrisk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@chrisk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chrisk)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2006, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-better-get-yourself-a-good-lawyer-captain-open-trek-spoilers-likely/359160/45 "2006-06-04T23:48:04Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > Wasn’t Keiko some sort of low-level officer, like a teacher or something? Hmm… interesting question. Back when she was on _Enterprise-D_, she was a botanist, in charge of the Arboretum. However… I don’t think we ever saw her in a Starfleet uniform when she was on duty, which would seem to suggest that she wasn’t in the Starfleet science divisions, but a civilian. If so, it raises the question of how civilians get assigned to a ship like the Enterprise. In the episode with the junior officers, (Lower Decks,) there was a ten-forward waiter who was bragging about how life was much easier as a civilian, how he didn’t have to take things as seriously as the junior officers or insist on addressing the bridge crew strictly according to protocol. Hmm… (on preview.) Hi Aesiron. Do you have a cite that she’s a civilian? It occurs to me that the sciences might be less formal about uniforms than other branches of starfleet… I mean, imagine trying to get a roomful of scientists to all dress alike… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2006, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-better-get-yourself-a-good-lawyer-captain-open-trek-spoilers-likely/359160/46 "2006-06-04T23:56:00Z")
Nothing primary but Memory Alpha, Star Trek’s wiki project, corroborates that she is a civilian in its opening sentence of her biography. > **[Keiko O'Brien](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Keiko_O'Brien)** > > Professor Keiko O'Brien (née Ishikawa) was a 24th century civilian botanist aboard the USS Enterprise-D and on Bajor, as well as the primary school teacher aboard the starbase Deep Space 9. Keiko Ishikawa, daughter of Hiro Ishikawa, was a native of... ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2006, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-better-get-yourself-a-good-lawyer-captain-open-trek-spoilers-likely/359160/47 "2006-06-05T00:11:36Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Excuse me? ;j I knew someone would take issue with that comment. I was referring to the Israeli government’s infamous “collective punishment” strategy for dealing with terrorist attacks. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2006, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-better-get-yourself-a-good-lawyer-captain-open-trek-spoilers-likely/359160/48 "2006-06-05T14:59:35Z")
> [@Terminus Est](#): > > The very first episode of TNG “Encounter at Farpoint”, where Picard surrendered to a space jellyfish. No, he surrendered to Q. ---
**Author:** ![chrisk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@chrisk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chrisk)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2006, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-better-get-yourself-a-good-lawyer-captain-open-trek-spoilers-likely/359160/49 "2006-06-05T15:51:37Z")
> [@Aesiron](#): > > Nothing primary but Memory Alpha, Star Trek’s wiki project, corroborates that she is a civilian in its opening sentence of her biography. > > [Keiko O'Brien | Memory Alpha | Fandom](http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Keiko_O%27Brien) Wow. I read that very same MA article, and didn’t notice the opening sentence. Duh! [quote=Malacandra] No, he surrendered to Q. [quote] Okay, technically he didn’t surrender to the space alien. But consider this… the space jellyfish was attacking the Bandi, who Picard was in negotiations with. Picard sent over a party to explore the ‘ship’, found out that the Bandi leader had been abducted and was being tortured somehow, and what did he do? He fed an energy beam into Farpoint station, allowing the jellyfish there to escape the planet and leave with the attacking space jellyfish. Of course, his decision was phrased in terms of humanitarian sentiments, high Federation ideals, and emancipation… but it might also be viewed as an act of appeasement to a dangerous enemy that he didn’t entirely understand. The jellyfish got what they wanted, right? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2006, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-better-get-yourself-a-good-lawyer-captain-open-trek-spoilers-likely/359160/50 "2006-06-09T14:04:09Z")
Picard _did_ have a troubling tendency to surrender in the first two years of the _Enterprise_-D’s mission: - to Q in “Encounter at Farpoint” - to the Ferengi in “The Last Outpost” - to a Klingon Bird of Prey (granted, it was with a wink and a nod to Riker, who was technically in command of the Klingon ship at the time) in “A Matter of Honor” Fortunately, he got over it. He didn’t surrender in “Rascals,” but the Ferengi did capture the _Enterprise_ in that episode. :rolleyes: If that didn’t get him court-martialed, nothing would… ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2006, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-better-get-yourself-a-good-lawyer-captain-open-trek-spoilers-likely/359160/51 "2006-06-09T14:25:50Z")
> [@chrisk](#): > > Okay, technically he didn’t surrender to the space alien. But consider this… the space jellyfish was attacking the Bandi, who Picard was in negotiations with. Picard sent over a party to explore the ‘ship’, found out that the Bandi leader had been abducted and was being tortured somehow, and what did he do? > > He fed an energy beam into Farpoint station, allowing the jellyfish there to escape the planet and leave with the attacking space jellyfish. Of course, his decision was phrased in terms of humanitarian sentiments, high Federation ideals, and emancipation… but it might also be viewed as an act of appeasement to a dangerous enemy that he didn’t entirely understand. The jellyfish got what they wanted, right? 😃 And what they deserved - the freeing of the jellyfish who had been unjustly enslaved by the Bandi. An adept assessment of the rights and wrongs of the situation that even Q couldn’t fault, much as he might have wanted to. It’s not like there was any hint that the Enterprise D couldn’t have stood up to the orbiting jellyfish if it had had to. _And_ the Bandi got out of it alive and well - all without the series’ new captain having to get into a single fistfight. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Cerowyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/82dd89/32.png) [@Cerowyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cerowyn)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2006, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-better-get-yourself-a-good-lawyer-captain-open-trek-spoilers-likely/359160/52 "2006-06-09T15:06:28Z")
Like every episode of every Star Trek series _didn’t_ have plot holes big enough to drop a spacestation through?? As an apparently dedicated masochist, I am finally sitting through all of the Enterprise episodes as they air in reruns on [Space](http://www.spacecast.com/). Trying to ignore the staggeringly inconsistent use of speed and distance in the storylines, nary an episode goes by in which I don’t identify a serious crime or two by one of the senior officers. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2006, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-better-get-yourself-a-good-lawyer-captain-open-trek-spoilers-likely/359160/53 "2006-06-09T15:15:03Z")
> [@Cerowyn](#): > > Like every episode of every Star Trek series _didn’t_ have plot holes big enough to drop a spacestation through?? > > As an apparently dedicated masochist, I am finally sitting through all of the Enterprise episodes as they air in reruns on [Space](http://www.spacecast.com/). Trying to ignore the staggeringly inconsistent use of speed and distance in the storylines, nary an episode goes by in which I don’t identify a serious crime or two by one of the senior officers. So name 'em. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-better-get-yourself-a-good-lawyer-captain-open-trek-spoilers-likely/359160.md?page=2)