# You bring. The ketchup. First. GAH! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 13, 2004, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-bring-the-ketchup-first-gah/274518 "2004-11-13T03:21:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2004, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-bring-the-ketchup-first-gah/274518/1 "2004-11-13T03:21:30Z")
Mr. Rilch and I took his dad out to lunch yesterday (Veteran’s Day, yanno). This evening, he and his mom and I went to a sports bar for dinner. Both times I got a burger and fries\*. And both times, I had to wait for the server to bring ketchup. What’s the deal with that, for crissakes? It’s been many moons since I’ve been a waitress, but we were always supposed to bring ketchup, or a rack of condiments, with or just before the entrees. Also, FIL got fries with his steak, which also necessitates ketchup. If fries come with your entree, ketchup is a given. And this is Pittsburgh: the **home** of Heinz ketchup! Why isn’t it already on the table? At least in the sports bar it should have been! And then I had to sit and **wait** for the damn ketchup. Yeah, I know the server has other things to do. But getting ketchup shouldn’t have to be worked in to other tasks. It goes along with bringing the entrees. I shouldn’t even have to ask, let alone wait. Don’t make me wait for my ketchup. God-DAMN. \*Just 'cause I got a burger doesn’t mean we didn’t take his dad someplace nice. It was an Angus burger. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2004, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-bring-the-ketchup-first-gah/274518/2 "2004-11-13T05:44:53Z")
Gotta cut these servers some slack, **Rilch**. Veteran’s Day is one of the busiest holidays of the year at sports bars (just like Mother’s Day brunch is the busiest day of the year for little restaurants that serve vaguely Cajun food in an _ersatz_ New Orleans decor. The servers can run out of condiments within about fifteen minutes; then they have to refill them from a #10 can of ketchup in the side work area. All this while getting the chicken wings and fried mozzarella sticks to the right tables while they’re still hot enough to cause blisters, cause, you know, that’s how sports bar guys like 'em. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2004, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-bring-the-ketchup-first-gah/274518/3 "2004-11-13T05:53:32Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Gotta cut these servers some slack, **Rilch**. Veteran’s Day is one of the busiest holidays of the year at sports bars No, the sports bar was last night, with MIL. On Veteran’s Day, we were at an inn FIL likes to go to. > [@](#): > > The servers can run out of condiments within about fifteen minutes; then they have to refill them from a #10 can of ketchup in the side work area. All this while getting the chicken wings and fried mozzarella sticks to the right tables while they’re still hot enough to cause blisters, cause, you know, that’s how sports bar guys like 'em. Dunno what happened at the inn, but last night at the bar, I saw the server grab an already-filled bottle of ketchup from the server station. What prompts my Pitting is the impression both servers gave that a) ketchup is an odd thing to ask for, not something they should have brought automatically and b) that I’ll be content for them to bring it when they bring it, and don’t mind sitting there watching my burger get cold. And as I said, I slung a lot of hash when I was in my 20s, and I’ve never “run out of ketchup in 20 minutes”. We always had a battalion of ketchup bottles ready. You **plan** for these things. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2004, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-bring-the-ketchup-first-gah/274518/4 "2004-11-13T06:20:41Z")
What I was used to doing as a server, and what I think I can reasonably expect as a customer, is if circumstances prevent the server from bringing ketchup with or before the entrees, s/he says “I’ll be right back with ketchup.” Or at least, “Do you need ketchup?” In both of these cases, it was just “There you go,” and they would have walked off leaving me ketchupless if I hadn’t asked. And in neither case were the servers remiss in other areas. The server at the inn asked Mr. Rilch and FIL if they wanted cream with their coffee, as she was setting the coffee down. The server at the bar asked if I wanted mustard or mayo with my burger. I didn’t specify ketchup because I thought it went without saying. And especially in Pittsburgh! Wait…did I miss the latest food warning? Is ketchup now on the blacklist? Does Atkins prohibit it, or are we onto something else now? ---
**Author:** ![Roland\_Orzabal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c2a13f/32.png) [@Roland\_Orzabal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roland_Orzabal)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2004, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-bring-the-ketchup-first-gah/274518/5 "2004-11-13T06:59:18Z")
Well, at the restaurant where I currently work, we have ketchup on the tables. We do not, however, have A1 on the tables, which, with us being a steakhouse and all, is what everybody wants. Instead, we have barbeque, which nobody ever uses, but that’s beside the point. Anyway. I do not, under any circumstances, leave the kitchen with a steak in my hand without having A1 in my apron. I drop the steak, I drop the A1, I ask if they need anything else. If they want Heinz 57, fine, I’ll go get it; this happens maybe 3% of the time. If I did not bring A1 to the table, I’d be making an extra trip about 70% of the time. At the restaurant where I used to work, we served a lot more sandwiches and fries than we did steak (probably because we had twenty-four sandwiches and only one steak). This being the case, we naturally did not have ketchup on the tables. The sole conclusion I can draw is that restaurants enjoy giving the customer immediate access only to that which they do not particularly want. In any case, my practice there was the same as my current practice: I did not leave the kitchen with a burger and fries without also having ketchup in my apron. I drop the food, I drop the ketchup, I ask if they need anything else. This policy makes my customers happy (because I have predicted their needs and they don’t need to ask and wait for it), and it makes me happy (because I don’t have to make an extra trip _every fucking time I drop food_). The benefits of this are increased tenfold if the restaurant is busy, as it also avoids the possibility of A) being asked for something and forgetting about it, or B) getting sidetracked and taking 20 minutes to get to it, both of which are far more likely when you’re getting your ass kicked. Any server with more than a month’s experience that does not follow this policy is, IMO, being an idiot. In addition to making one’s life a hell of a lot harder, it also shows an unwillingness to actively consider the probable needs of one’s customers. When I used to manage, this sort of thing was a “red flag” in a major way. I don’t like stupidity, I don’t like willful inattention, and I definitely don’t like to see both of those qualities simultaneously exhibited in one of my employees. I have seen complaints regarding servers on this and many other boards that I would argue against tooth and nail. Sometimes, customers simply do not understand the finer points of restaurant operation from an insider’s perspective, yet they insist upon acting on their ignorance and being complete jerks. This is not one of those times. Your server was an idiot. Case closed. Sadly, there isn’t much I can recommend in the way of possible actions you could’ve taken. Complaining to management is pretty much your only recourse, and if they decide to ignore you, then them’s the breaks. All I can suggest to you now is something I’m sure you figured out for yourself: don’t go back there again. Ever. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2004, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-bring-the-ketchup-first-gah/274518/6 "2004-11-13T11:21:17Z")
> [@Rilchiam](#): > > And then I had to sit and **wait** for the damn ketchup. When that happens to me, I just go into the kitchen and politely ask for it. Makes a nice scene and gets the job done. ---
**Author:** ![lee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lee/32/7455_2.png) [@lee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lee)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2004, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-bring-the-ketchup-first-gah/274518/7 "2004-11-13T12:09:55Z")
With us, it is always mayo. **KellyM** orders an olive burer, which invariably is described as having mayo, and then it comes to the table with no mayo on the burger, none on the side either. It seems like the waitron is hard to flag down, and when we finally do and ask for mayo, it takes forever to get. Some times we have to ask twice. Once we asked twice, and then finally sent hubby to go fetch the mayo. A good deal of time later the waitress came back, without the mayo, saw that we had some, and got all snarky that she would have brought it if we had just been patient. So now the exchange when ordering the olive burger included, “That comes with mayo?” “Uh… yes, it does.” “Good! I want the mayo.” AND STILL NO MAYO COMES! This is not one restaurant, there are several it has happened at. I think there is a curse involved. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2004, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-bring-the-ketchup-first-gah/274518/8 "2004-11-13T12:30:52Z")
> [@lee](#): > > A good deal of time later the waitress came back, without the mayo, saw that we had some, and got all snarky that she would have brought it if we had just been patient. WTF? What did she think **Kelly** should have done: eaten the burger as it was and chased it with the mayo? **Roland** : Right on! As for patronizing either of these places, it’s a moot point, since we’re only visiting here. But if I was in a position to return to the bar (which I would; it’s otherwise a terrific place), I’d specifically ask for ketchup while giving my order, then lodge a complaint if I got a repeat of yesterday’s experience. **Liberal** : I’ve done that. But in both of these cases, I was with an in-law, and they’re not familiar with my Rampaging Rilch mode. ---
**Author:** ![MaddyStrut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dbc845/32.png) [@MaddyStrut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaddyStrut)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2004, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-bring-the-ketchup-first-gah/274518/9 "2004-11-13T12:48:20Z")
It’s been 17 years since I waited tables. There are very few things I remember. However, there are two that have stuck with me: 1) how to hold a heavy tray in that over your shoulder fashion and 2) always bring ketchup with the meal. As **Roland** said, you learn pretty quickly that having to go back for ketchup means the person at your table waits while their food gets cold (and sometimes the entire table will wait will them). Looking at food they can’t eat makes people very unhappy. Very. Forgetting the ketchup isn’t as easily solved as quickly dashing off to get it. Every single time one of your other tables will snag you delaying your quest for ketchup. It’s like a law of the universe or something. So you learn pretty quickly that bringing ketchup with the meal makes life easier. However, our restaurant did run short of ketchup bottles on occassion. It was a very poorly run place that actually ran short of \*forks \* a couple of times. When we were short on ketchup and you knew you had an order of fries or a burger coming up, you’d go on the Great Ketchup Hunt. That means scouting around to see if any tables with ketchup were ready to be bussed–even if they weren’t your tables. You did what you could, but there were nightmarish times when your food would be up and there was no ketchup to be found. That meant profuse apologies and a scramble to see if another table was still using their ketchup (I really, really, really hated that). So maybe your restaurant was running short and thinking they could run a “don’t ask/don’t tell” ketchup policy. Pretty stupid since no one really forgets that they prefer ketchup with their burgers, but that’s all I can think of. ---
**Author:** ![TellMeI\_mNotCrazy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tellmei_mnotcrazy/32/3419_2.png) [@TellMeI\_mNotCrazy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TellMeI_mNotCrazy)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2004, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-bring-the-ketchup-first-gah/274518/10 "2004-11-13T13:32:52Z")
> [@Roland Orzabal](#): > > If they want Heinz 57, fine, I’ll go get it; this happens maybe 3% of the time. OK if I knew what restaurant you worked for, I’d be there for life. I’m one of the 3% who wants Heinz 57. I’ve been in exactly one restaurant that carried it. I’m going to start carrying my own bottle, I think. ---
**Author:** ![TeaElle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8491ac/32.png) [@TeaElle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TeaElle)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2004, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-bring-the-ketchup-first-gah/274518/11 "2004-11-13T15:24:09Z")
If you’re serving fries – not hand-cut cottage steak fried Idaho potatoes served with tomato confit – everyday, basic fries, such that they have in not only should the customer not need to wait for ketchup, but ketchup should come to the table (if it isn’t already there) before the food. The server knows you’re going to need it, the vast majority of people who eat fries (in America) eat them with ketchup and many who eat burgers (unless they come with special condiments) eat them with ketchup, so it’s all about being prepared. Better to have it at the table unused than to have a customer waiting. I can’t understand that lack of forethought, especially in a casual establishment where burger-fry-ketchup meals are commonplace, and where the ambience couldn’t possibly be injured by just leaving the bottle of Heinz on the table. Are the restaurants afraid that their costs for ketchup are going to skyrocket if they just leave it for everyone to use without having to wait? ---
**Author:** ![Mauvaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mauvaise/32/11084_2.png) [@Mauvaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mauvaise)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2004, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-bring-the-ketchup-first-gah/274518/12 "2004-11-13T15:29:32Z")
> [@Rilchiam](#): > > Also, FIL got fries with his steak, which also necessitates ketchup. Unless, of course, you don’t _like_ ketchup. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Elza\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Elza\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elza_B)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2004, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-bring-the-ketchup-first-gah/274518/13 "2004-11-13T16:36:16Z")
> [@Rilchiam](#): > > Wait…did I miss the latest food warning? Is ketchup now on the blacklist? Does Atkins prohibit it, or are we onto something else now? Perhaps the servers were Republicans who’d boycotted ketchup prior to the election and just forgot to stop boycotting? 😃 Sorry. It was necessary. And I prefer ranch dressing on my fries - I know, it’s disgusting and fat-laden, but it’s oh-so-good - so I’ve always got to ask for that. If I’m in Toronto visiting a friend, however, I stick with their malt vinegar, which is always on the table. Yummy. But speaking as a server, I never forgot to bring ketchup - I usually tried to take it before the meals were served. I mean, heck, ketchup is a food group in the US. Ava ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2004, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-bring-the-ketchup-first-gah/274518/14 "2004-11-13T16:43:15Z")
Ketchup? Hah! Try getting mayo for your fries. Even when you ask for it, they think you’re either a) making a joke they don’t have time for, or b) some sort of food weirdo. “Mayo on your _fries?_” “YES, MAYO ON MY GODDAM FRIES! WHO’S FUCKING THIS DOG, ANYWAY?!” ---
**Author:** ![Balle\_M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/13edae/32.png) [@Balle\_M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balle_M)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2004, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-bring-the-ketchup-first-gah/274518/15 "2004-11-13T18:28:02Z")
Here among the great unwashed the ketchup is usually already on the table when you are seated. Oh and: > [@Roland Orzabal](#): > > Anyway. I do not, under any circumstances, leave the kitchen with a steak in my hand without having A1 in my apron. Hmm…I guess you _weren’t_ glad to see me. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2004, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-bring-the-ketchup-first-gah/274518/16 "2004-11-13T19:17:10Z")
What is this “ketchup” of which you speak? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![FilmGeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@FilmGeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FilmGeek)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2004, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-bring-the-ketchup-first-gah/274518/17 "2004-11-13T19:39:30Z")
> [@TellMeI'mNotCrazy](#): > > OK if I knew what restaurant you worked for, I’d be there for life. I’m one of the 3% who wants Heinz 57. I’ve been in exactly one restaurant that carried it. > > I’m going to start carrying my own bottle, I think. Really? Wow. I don’t think I’ve been to a mid priced steak restaurant that didn’t have a bottle on the table. ---
**Author:** ![SusanStoHelit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@SusanStoHelit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SusanStoHelit)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2004, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-bring-the-ketchup-first-gah/274518/18 "2004-11-13T20:30:16Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > What is this “ketchup” of which you speak? > > 😕 [Mr Burns]Ketchup… Catsup… Ketchup… Catsup… Whoo, I’m in way over my head here.[/Mr Burns]