# You can knit here, just don't support Trump! **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 24, 2019, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-can-knit-here-just-dont-support-trump/835993 "2019-06-24T21:38:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2019, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-can-knit-here-just-dont-support-trump/835993/1 "2019-06-24T21:38:58Z")
Good news, everyone! [Knitters’ network bans Trump support on its website](https://apnews.com/32e6efc5eac24deb94ec0fff9929d24c)! > [@](#): > > We are banning support of Donald Trump and his administration on Ravelry. We cannot provide a space that is inclusive of all and also allow support for open white supremacy. [https://twitter.com/ravelry/status/1142766608680660992](https://twitter.com/ravelry/status/1142766608680660992) According to the AP, [Ravelry.com](http://Ravelry.com) is “a free, 8-million strong social network for knitters, crocheters and others in the fiber arts”. That’s a huge chuck of the US population; I wonder how many will be grateful? And I can’t wait to hear what Trump has to say about it! How you gonna dis knitters? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2019, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-can-knit-here-just-dont-support-trump/835993/2 "2019-06-24T21:51:56Z")
It’s actually less than 1% of the us population, even if it’s a huge amount as an absolute number of people. I’ll also point out that they aren’t banning Trump supporters, just discussion of Trump and his administration which, let’s be frank, has little to no relevance to knitting, crocheting, or other fiber arts. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2019, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-can-knit-here-just-dont-support-trump/835993/3 "2019-06-24T22:05:24Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > It’s actually less than 1% of the us population, even if it’s a huge amount as an absolute number of people. It’s ~2.5% of the US population. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2019, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-can-knit-here-just-dont-support-trump/835993/4 "2019-06-24T22:10:13Z")
Shoot, I missed a great opportunity to make a joke about knitpicking. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2019, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-can-knit-here-just-dont-support-trump/835993/5 "2019-06-24T23:21:16Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > Shoot, I missed a great opportunity to make a joke about knitpicking. That pun had _better_ be intentional, because as we all know the term is actually [nitpicking](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitpicking). \ ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2019, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-can-knit-here-just-dont-support-trump/835993/6 "2019-06-24T23:36:39Z")
I just logged on to my Ravelry account (yikes, I gotta update my projects) and found their official statement: > [@](#): > > We are banning support of Donald Trump and his administration on Ravelry. > > This includes support in the form of forum posts, projects, patterns, profiles, and all other content. Note that your project data will never be deleted. We will never delete your Ravelry project data for any reason and if a project needs to be removed from the site, we will make sure that you have access to your data. If you are permanently banned from Ravelry, you will still be able to access any patterns that you purchased. Also, we will make sure that you receive a copy of your data. > > We cannot provide a space that is inclusive of all and also allow support for open white supremacy. Support of the Trump administration is undeniably support for white supremacy. > > Policy notes: > > You can still participate if you do in fact support the administration, you just can’t talk about it here. > > We are not endorsing the Democrats nor banning Republicans. > > We are definitely not banning conservative politics. Hate groups and intolerance are different from other types of political positions. > > We are not banning people for past support. > > Do not try to weaponize this policy by entrapping people who do support the Trump administration into voicing their support. > > Similarly, antagonizing conservative members for their unstated positions is not acceptable. > > You can help by flagging any of the following items if they constitute support for Trump or his administration: > > Projects: Unacceptable projects will be provided to the member or made invisible to others. > > Patterns: Unacceptable patterns will be returned to drafts. > > Forum posts: right now, only posts written after Sunday, June 23rd at 8 AM Eastern > > Profiles: Please do not flag profiles yet if the only banned content is an avatar or avatars. There is not yet a flagging system for those. > > Much of this policy was first written by a roleplaying game site, not unlike Ravelry but for RPGs, named [RPG.net](http://RPG.net). We thank them for their thoughtful work. For citations/references, see this post on [RPG.net](http://RPG.net): [[linky]](https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/new-ban-do-not-post-in-support-of-trump-or-his-administration.835849/) I don’t see any big deal here. [Ravelry.com](http://Ravelry.com) has always been anti-bigotry, as per their community guidelines: > [@](#): > > **be respectful** > > These rules are for the safety and comfort of everyone. Breaking them is not tolerated and will result in your account being restricted for a number of days or completely removed: > > Personal attacks, harassment, and personal threats are not allowed on Ravelry (show our definition of personal attacks and harassment). > > Hate speech and hateful imagery is not permitted on Ravelry (show our definition of hate speech and hateful imagery). > > Respect the privacy of others. Do not post the contents of private correspondence or private information about other Ravelry members without permission. You may not link to off-site privacy violations. It’s not a free-speech forum, it’s a forum for civil communications about fiber arts. If any of the people who voted for possibly the most belligerently un-civil President in the history of the United States are upset because now they can’t express their support for him on a forum for civil communications about fiber arts, well, the poor little snowflakes will just have to get over themselves. I doubt their business model is going to take any kind of hit over this, but I made a donation just to express support for their decision. Now back to that project updating… ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2019, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-can-knit-here-just-dont-support-trump/835993/7 "2019-06-24T23:46:16Z")
It’s an even higher percentage, if you compare it to the portion of the population who actually votes. And I would guess that the population of knitters and crocheters skews older, and the old are both more reliable voters, and tend Republican (though it probably also skews female, and women tend Democratic). ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-can-knit-here-just-dont-support-trump/835993/8 "2019-06-25T00:22:39Z")
[RPG.net](http://RPG.net) did the same thing for much the same reasons. Support for Trump and open support of white nationalism, sexism & other bigotries are so closely mapped as to be nearly perfect matches; his supporters disrupt forums they are allowed to push their bigotry on and drive everyone else away. Ravelry had basically two choices; force Trump supporters to keep their support to themselves, or turn into a neo-Nazi site as the rest of their users flee. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-can-knit-here-just-dont-support-trump/835993/9 "2019-06-25T00:29:02Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > Shoot, I missed a great opportunity to make a joke about knitpicking. I was going to say that I thought they wanted to recruit knitwits. (Yes I know about the k.) ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-can-knit-here-just-dont-support-trump/835993/10 "2019-06-25T01:43:18Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > And I would guess that the population of knitters and crocheters skews older, and the old are both more reliable voters, and tend Republican (though it probably also skews female, and women tend Democratic). [Not all that much older:](https://blog.anthonythomas.com/knitting-and-crochet-today-statistics-trends-and-more) > [@](#): > > 34% are 18-34, 36% are 35-54, and 30% are 55+. However, I’d guess that the population of knitters and crocheters (and designers, spinners, weavers and dyers, btw) who use a craft-social-media site like Ravelry skews considerably younger and less conservative than the average. Female, yes, by about 71% to 29%. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-can-knit-here-just-dont-support-trump/835993/11 "2019-06-25T01:52:14Z")
Why not just ban political discussions? ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-can-knit-here-just-dont-support-trump/835993/12 "2019-06-25T02:30:05Z")
Fibre artists are a funny lot. You’ll get the most liberal crunchy sheep-growing-shearing-spinning-dyeing collective-living activist, and right next to her is a stodgy Iowa farm wife with old fashioned ways and a strict gender divide with her husband. If all they talk about is yarn, and dyes, and knit/crochet patterns, you’d swear they were a devoted Mother and Daughter. But if they start talking politics it is irrecoverable within seconds. Nano-seconds even! Ravelry has always been assertively inclusive, and they are just reiterating when they say that white supremacy will not be tolerated. What is new is that a large number of people now consider our President and his Administration to be a White Supremacy organization. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-can-knit-here-just-dont-support-trump/835993/13 "2019-06-25T03:02:35Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > What is new is that a large number of people now consider our President and his Administration to be a White Supremacy organization. > ☹ This was what made the story news-worthy, IMO. This is a completely apolitical group but toxic politics was invading even there, is how I took it. And they’re not having it. Politics in a civilized society isn’t about hating people, ffs. And so here’s a group calling it out, loud and clear and unashamed that really should have no connection to this. Who’ll be next? A model train enthusiast group? A bowling league? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-can-knit-here-just-dont-support-trump/835993/14 "2019-06-25T03:44:58Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > According to the AP, [Ravelry.com](http://Ravelry.com) is “a free, 8-million strong social network for knitters, crocheters and others in the fiber arts”. > > That’s a huge chuck of the US population; I wonder how many will be grateful? You’re assuming that all eight million members are in the US. I really doubt that’s the case. Most likely and without knowing anything about the site, that number includes people all over the world. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-can-knit-here-just-dont-support-trump/835993/15 "2019-06-25T03:46:28Z")
Awesomely insightful post, **Dewey**! Thanks for your contribution to the thread! ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-can-knit-here-just-dont-support-trump/835993/16 "2019-06-25T05:02:43Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > You’re assuming that all eight million members are in the US. I really doubt that’s the case. Most likely and without knowing anything about the site, that number includes people all over the world. We have members on at least 6 continents, and at any given time, we usually have someone in Antarctica, whether they’re working or visiting. I tried to find the exact number of countries, but couldn’t. The issue was that someone was posting some pretty OTT pro-Trump patterns, and when they were flagged, she and her husband started doxxing some of the reporters. THAT’S what precipitated the “banning.” Plus, in 2008 there was an anti-Obama group called “The Bunker” that got Ravelry investigated by the Secret Service because some of the posters were talking about how they planned to assassinate him, which is NOT covered under free speech. I’m guessing some of them are still in prison. Anyway, that word was flagged for a few years afterwards, and referring to the group got a warning from the moderator. They probably didn’t want anything like that happening again. You can still be a Trump supporter; you just can’t talk about it there. We do have a few right-wing boards, but with one exception, they’re dormant. ---
**Author:** ![galen\_ubal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/galen_ubal/32/4440_2.png) [@galen\_ubal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galen_ubal)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-can-knit-here-just-dont-support-trump/835993/17 "2019-06-25T05:08:58Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > We have members on at least 6 continents, and at any given time, we usually have someone in Antarctica, whether they’re working or visiting. I tried to find the exact number of countries, but couldn’t. > > The issue was that someone was posting some pretty OTT pro-Trump patterns, and when they were flagged, she and her husband started doxxing some of the reporters. THAT’S what precipitated the “banning.” Plus, in 2008 there was an anti-Obama group called “The Bunker” that got Ravelry investigated by the Secret Service because some of the posters were talking about how they planned to assassinate him, which is NOT covered under free speech. I’m guessing some of them are still in prison. Anyway, that word was flagged for a few years afterwards, and referring to the group got a warning from the moderator. They probably didn’t want anything like that happening again. > > You can still be a Trump supporter; you just can’t talk about it there. We do have a few right-wing boards, but with one exception, they’re dormant. Since you seem to be a member… I’d gotten the impression that there’s a lot more covered on Ravelry than yarncraft - similar to here, there’s an active amount of “social posting” True? ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-can-knit-here-just-dont-support-trump/835993/18 "2019-06-25T05:27:53Z")
> [@](#): > > Projects: Unacceptable projects will be provided to the member or made invisible to others. > > Patterns: Unacceptable patterns will be returned to drafts. I’ve heard of dyed-in-the-wool racists (or any other ideology), and I’ve heard of yarn-bombing, but knitted/crocheted racist propaganda? Now I’ve heard everything. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-can-knit-here-just-dont-support-trump/835993/19 "2019-06-25T06:08:16Z")
> [@galen\_ubal](#): > > Since you seem to be a member… > I’d gotten the impression that there’s a lot more covered on Ravelry than yarncraft - similar to here, there’s an active amount of “social posting” True? Sure am! I joined in 2008; fiber artists of all types are welcome (most knit and/or crochet, but quilters, spinners, dyers, weavers, etc. are also represented) and while we do have literally thousands of boards devoted to crafts, we also have boards for pretty much every conceivable interest, as long as it’s legal (although the NORML board might be stretching it in some areas!). We can “friend” people and see their projects, if they wish to post photos. Many people just go there for free patterns and have nothing to do with the message boards. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-can-knit-here-just-dont-support-trump/835993/20 "2019-06-25T06:10:57Z")
> [@PatrickLondon](#): > > I’ve heard of dyed-in-the-wool racists (or any other ideology), and I’ve heard of yarn-bombing, but knitted/crocheted racist propaganda? Now I’ve heard everything. Oooohhh yeah! In addition, name the body part, or the species, and there are patterns for making them. Wanna make a pussy hat that looks like a vagina? Yeah, we’ve got that. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-can-knit-here-just-dont-support-trump/835993.md?page=2)