# You can't say that! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 24, 2000, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-cant-say-that/17844 "2000-03-24T07:06:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Great\_Dave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/46a35a/32.png) [@Great\_Dave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Dave)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2000, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-cant-say-that/17844/1 "2000-03-24T07:06:00Z")
Anybody else happen to catch ABC’s special about the erosion of the freedom of speech tonight? It was quite disturbing. I’m guessing that most in this crowd are all for the right to say whatever you care to, abridging only threats, slander, and incitement to violence. The question is, has America become too sensitive? Are we letting the offended minority usurp our liberty? * * * -Dave “Violence is the last refuge of the ignorant.” -I. Asimov ---
**Author:** ![SingleDad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9e8a1a/32.png) [@SingleDad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SingleDad)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2000, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-cant-say-that/17844/2 "2000-03-24T07:25:00Z")
I really like Stossel. He’s a no-bullshit kind of guy. I think he was right on. ## Rah! If Cecil Adams did not exist, we would be obliged to create Him. ---
**Author:** ![SingleDad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9e8a1a/32.png) [@SingleDad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SingleDad)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2000, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-cant-say-that/17844/3 "2000-03-24T07:27:00Z")
Oh, and IIRC it’s “Violence is the last resort of the _incompetent_.” From the Foundation Trilogy, vol 1. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2000, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-cant-say-that/17844/4 "2000-03-24T07:45:00Z")
“I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.” I think Voltaire said it, but I could be wrong. But that should be our standard. The SC has ruled that time, place and manner resrictictions are constitutional, but the expression of ideas and opinions are crucial to our growth as a society, including those that piss us off. I was a bit miffed when everybody wanted John Rockers head on a platter. People say things that get me pissed of, but I realize that I do not have the right not to be offended. And my picking up and joining the public demonstration of outrage may just be playing into someones hand. I still think that if no one came out to yell and scream at the KKK idiots, then the KKK would think their march was a failure. Good ideas will find favor and bad ideas will die for lack of interest if allowed free expression. But if you try to force people into changing their minds, you will come against fanatical resistance. Anyway, thats my opinion and I’m entitled to it. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2000, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-cant-say-that/17844/5 "2000-03-24T07:51:00Z")
I get a little preachy when I get tired. I should get some sleep. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Dave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/46a35a/32.png) [@Great\_Dave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Dave)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2000, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-cant-say-that/17844/6 "2000-03-24T07:55:00Z")
SingleDad– I think Stossel was on target as well. The part with those idiotic college students yelling really pissed me off. Oh, and you’re right about the quote. Hober Mallow, I believe. I realized I had been remembering it wrong after all these years. But I do like my version. I was going to rotate my sig anyhow… * * * -Dave “Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.” -Albert Einstein ---
**Author:** ![techchick68](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea5d25/32.png) [@techchick68](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/techchick68)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2000, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-cant-say-that/17844/7 "2000-03-24T07:59:00Z")
I will respond later…but sent an email to him (John Stossel) who is being blasted left and right (I mean that politically) so here’s what I sent with my last name X’d out. ============= Dear Mr. Stossel, I want to personally thank you for educating the public on what are now considered unpopular ideas that our founding fathers fought for. It is sad to see that our country is becoming such a stiffeling place in which to live when one of its mottos “Give me Liberty or Give me Death”. Please keep up the good work and continue educating the public on the truth of what our country is about. Don’t let those that criticize you, break you. Your reporting is breaking new ground over an old grave. In the words of Thomas Jefferson “I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.” Sincerely and in Liberty, Liz XXXXXXXX Colorado Springs, CO ========= So it’s not the best literary piece but he has been attacked from many angles for his reporting, I applaud ABC (not my favorite of the big 3 networks) for standing behind him. ---
**Author:** ![techchick68](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea5d25/32.png) [@techchick68](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/techchick68)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2000, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-cant-say-that/17844/8 "2000-03-24T08:03:00Z")
BTW, for those of you that agree with his stance, please email him and let him and the network know. Like I said, he has been attacked from many sides and this kind of reporting should be cheered and not put down. [http://abcnews.go.com/onair/2020/stossel\_suggestions\_\_mailform.html](http://abcnews.go.com/onair/2020/stossel_suggestions__mailform.html) ---
**Author:** ![neutron\_star](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/51bf81/32.png) [@neutron\_star](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neutron_star)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2000, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-cant-say-that/17844/9 "2000-03-24T10:52:00Z")
Damn. It sucks working nights. Especially when you only get three TV channels at work and ABC ain’t one of them 🙂 Maybe they’ll rerun it somebody, but probably not. Stossel did an excellent special a year or two ago about victimless crimes like drug use and prostitution. I was amazed to see a show with such rational ideas presented on network TV. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2000, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-cant-say-that/17844/10 "2000-03-24T11:37:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Spooje said: > > People say things that get me pissed off, but I realize that I do not have the right not to be offended. My head is spinning. What is that quadruple negative in straight talk? * * * [The Legend Of PigeonMan](http://www.hotkey.net.au/~guanolad/pigeonman/) - **Shadow of the Pigeon** - Weirdo of the Night ---
**Author:** ![JUSTUS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b2d939/32.png) [@JUSTUS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JUSTUS)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2000, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-cant-say-that/17844/11 "2000-03-24T12:05:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by SingleDad: > **Oh, and IIRC it’s “Violence is the last resort of the _incompetent_.” From the Foundation Trilogy, vol 1.** The thing that was most disapponting to me was the idea that three teachers would sue a student… Are they so vindictive, insensitive and just plain (oops can’t use that word) Witchy (??) … What ever happened to the noble, caring, nurturing… ideal that I thought was the reason for being an “EDUCATOR” … They can be as self-righteous and indigdant as they want but using some arcane(??) word placed in a religious context is absurd . The young man is damaged but that is OK … Other students instead of finding an outlet are driven further away but again that is ok … I better stop but you get my intent … To everyone else thanks nice ideas and it was a good piece ---
**Author:** ![JUSTUS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b2d939/32.png) [@JUSTUS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JUSTUS)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2000, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-cant-say-that/17844/12 "2000-03-24T12:14:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by BigDaddyD: > \*\*Anybody else happen to catch ABC’s special about the erosion of the freedom of speech tonight? It was quite disturbing. I’m guessing that most in this crowd are all for the right to say whatever you care to, abridging only threats, slander, and incitement to violence. The question is, has America become too sensitive? Are we letting the offended minority usurp our liberty? > > \*\* That is the question we can not let a tyranny exist by the majority or a minority there must be reasoned balance… YES we are to sensitive … Vindictive … Self-centered and way to ready to sue … accuse…or force someone else to be like what we want (not like we really are) “The Gentle man that said I love this country but I hate the goverment” …was right… this has to extend to both the offical and the unofficial (public opinion sector … Personal responsiblity and respect for others regardles if they agree with you look like you, think, talk like you… Unfortunately this country is full of cry babies & bullies ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2000, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-cant-say-that/17844/13 "2000-03-24T16:57:00Z")
For those of us who missed it, is there a summary somewhere? What was the jist of the report? Esprix * * * [Ask the Gay Guy!](http://boards.straightdope.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/001376.html) ---
**Author:** ![Fillet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/2acd7d/32.png) [@Fillet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fillet)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2000, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-cant-say-that/17844/14 "2000-03-24T17:25:00Z")
Esprix, take a look at [this summary](http://abcnews.go.com/onair/ABCNEWSSpecials/stossel_freespeech_000323.html) on the ABC News website. ---
**Author:** ![Fillet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/2acd7d/32.png) [@Fillet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fillet)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2000, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-cant-say-that/17844/15 "2000-03-24T17:29:00Z")
BTW, you can also take a look at some of John Stossel’s other reports on his home page: [http://abcnews.go.com/onair/ABCNEWSspecials/JohnStossel.html](http://abcnews.go.com/onair/ABCNEWSspecials/JohnStossel.html) SingleDad, I’ve always liked his no b.s. attitude, too - a refreshing change from all the other guff. ---
**Author:** ![Fillet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/2acd7d/32.png) [@Fillet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fillet)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2000, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-cant-say-that/17844/16 "2000-03-24T17:31:00Z")
OK, clearly I need more coffee. [John Stossel’s homepage](http://abcnews.go.com/onair/ABCNEWSspecials/JohnStossel.html) ---
**Author:** ![NicePete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ee7513/32.png) [@NicePete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NicePete)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2000, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-cant-say-that/17844/17 "2000-03-25T06:23:00Z")
Here’s another opinion on John Stoessel. Didn’t see the freedom of speech piece – sounds like I would have agreed with it. I don’t really know anything else about Stoessel, just thought y’all might be interested. [http://www.salon.com/media/feature/2000/02/25/stossel/index.html](http://www.salon.com/media/feature/2000/02/25/stossel/index.html) * * * Plunging like stones from a slingshot on Mars. ---
**Author:** ![Hunsecker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/d78d45/32.png) [@Hunsecker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hunsecker)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2000, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-cant-say-that/17844/18 "2000-03-25T06:27:00Z")
I gotta agree with all of you. That was a surprisingly good show last night. I normally don’t hold broadcast news in the highest regard, but that special made me reconsider. (Until the words “Rooney” and “Walters” came into my head) I was pretty disturbed by those teachers that were suing the student. I mean, I could understand that they were (groundlessly, IMHO) afraid, but they just seemed vindictive. What would have been interesting is comparing that students case with the one, oh, two years ago or so where an anti-abortion web site published the names and addresses of doctors who performed abortions (and then crossed names off the list if the doctors were, say, killed by anti-abortionists or stopped practicing). There is a clear difference to me, but I’m not sure why, and where to draw the line. Anyway, good report. I’ll have to pay more attention to Stossel from now on. ---
**Author:** ![Lux\_Fiat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bc79bd/32.png) [@Lux\_Fiat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lux_Fiat)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2000, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-cant-say-that/17844/19 "2000-03-25T06:57:00Z")
Neutron Star said: > [@](#): > > Maybe they’ll rerun it somebody, but probably not. Brill’s Content did an article about Stossel this month, and in it they said that his contract stipulates that his specials must be repeated, I think at least once. I don’t always agree with Stossel’s opinions, but I appreciate that he has the stones to come out and proclaim his viewpoint explicitly, rather than doing so behind the guise of “objective” journalism like most other television news shows. Among the big three, I’ve always thought NBC was the worst offender in that category. And thanks to those teachers, I now know that “shun” is some sort of reference to ritual torture and execution, rather than to simple ostracism as I had previously believed. * * * “Are you frightened of snakes?” “Only when they dress like werewolves.” -Preacher ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2000, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-cant-say-that/17844/20 "2000-03-24T19:19:00Z")
Having read the summary (but not seen the show), I think Stossel dealt only with the white-noise-level threats to free speech. I didn’t see any mention of SLAPPs (Strategic Lawsuits Against Public Participation), for example. I didn’t see any mention of increasing concentration of media power in the hands of a handful of corporations who, beyond merely slanting the coverage of an issue, can keep things from _becoming_ publicly debated issues. Bill Moyers did an excellent special, [“Free Speech for Sale,”](http://www.pbs.org/whatson/schedulex/description.html?nola_root=BMFS) on PBS last June. _That_ was the real thing. Stossel’s special is like Brill’s Content, IMO: it deals with trivialities. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-cant-say-that/17844.md?page=2)