# You can't win; you can't break even; you can't even win the game? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 7, 2012, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-cant-win-you-cant-break-even-you-cant-even-win-the-game/633995 "2012-09-07T14:59:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-cant-win-you-cant-break-even-you-cant-even-win-the-game/633995/21 "2012-09-07T20:26:39Z")
I never knew thermodynamics was being used as a source for philosophy. My initial thought is “that’s silly”. It’s like using Kepler’s laws of planetary motion for philosophy. There’s no worthwhile analogy there. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-cant-win-you-cant-break-even-you-cant-even-win-the-game/633995/22 "2012-09-07T20:37:50Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > I never knew thermodynamics was being used as a source for philosophy. My initial thought is “that’s silly”. It’s like using Kepler’s laws of planetary motion for philosophy. There’s no worthwhile analogy there. Sure there is. What goes around comes around. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-cant-win-you-cant-break-even-you-cant-even-win-the-game/633995/23 "2012-09-07T20:44:12Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > There’s always a way to win. While that’s a good attitude for general success, it’s objectively untrue. If two persons face off with utterly incompatible goals, one must lose, even if both hold the “always a way to win” belief. Everybody dies. Entropy always catches up with you in the end. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-cant-win-you-cant-break-even-you-cant-even-win-the-game/633995/24 "2012-09-07T21:33:36Z")
We can “win” in a local sense, because the Sun (and energy in the earth’s core, and tidal energy from the Moon) give us huge energy inputs. It’s like inheriting a lot of money from Rich Uncle Moneybags. If that isn’t “winning,” what is? ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-cant-win-you-cant-break-even-you-cant-even-win-the-game/633995/25 "2012-09-07T21:45:20Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Sure there is. What goes around comes around. Brilliant ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-cant-win-you-cant-break-even-you-cant-even-win-the-game/633995/26 "2012-09-07T21:58:29Z")
On average half the time you win, half the time some other guy wins, so at best you break even with 50/50. But there are two other scenarios. The mythical win-win and the all too common lose-lose. Give that the the lose-lose is certainly more common than the win-win that means that overall you lose slightly more often than you win. Therefore you cannot even break even. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-cant-win-you-cant-break-even-you-cant-even-win-the-game/633995/27 "2012-09-07T22:04:10Z")
There is no game. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-cant-win-you-cant-break-even-you-cant-even-win-the-game/633995/28 "2012-09-08T02:10:29Z")
[quote=“msmith537, post:27, topic:633995”] There is no game.[/QUOTE Or in otherwords… IZTSA TRAP! ---
**Author:** ![Dobbs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Dobbs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dobbs)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-cant-win-you-cant-break-even-you-cant-even-win-the-game/633995/29 "2012-09-08T04:20:55Z")
If you can’t win, and can’t break even, and can’t quite the game, then it’s time to change the rules. Tell me what it takes to be declared a success,and I’ll redefine the rules to be able to be a success. ---
**Author:** ![Esox\_Lucius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Esox\_Lucius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esox_Lucius)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-cant-win-you-cant-break-even-you-cant-even-win-the-game/633995/30 "2012-09-08T06:24:16Z")
Success = immortality. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-cant-win-you-cant-break-even-you-cant-even-win-the-game/633995/31 "2012-09-08T07:07:57Z")
Yeah I just lost the game too. Damn it! I hadn’t lost it for weeks!!! ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-cant-win-you-cant-break-even-you-cant-even-win-the-game/633995/32 "2012-09-08T13:05:24Z")
> [@Dobbs](#): > > Tell me what it takes to be declared a success,and I’ll redefine the rules to be able to be a success. I changed mine from “win a Nobel” to “living in a van down by the river”. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-cant-win-you-cant-break-even-you-cant-even-win-the-game/633995/33 "2012-09-08T13:22:56Z")
> [@Esox\_Lucius](#): > > Success = immortality. Or, if you can’t have that, redefining it as building some really frigging huge city walls. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-cant-win-you-cant-break-even-you-cant-even-win-the-game/633995/34 "2012-09-12T02:33:41Z")
you can’t win because there’s nothing to win. You can, however, break even, which only means that you get out of life what you put into it, and has nothing to do with winning or losing. And, of course you can quit: just choose not to play any game with your life and just live in the moment. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-cant-win-you-cant-break-even-you-cant-even-win-the-game/633995.md?page=1)