My only point is that its ok not to respect beliefs. In fact you don’t even have to respect people. I do agree that you shouldn’t be rude, and I am sorry about having been rude.
And beliefs are beliefs for the purpose of the respecting issue. Whether their labeled religious or not.
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This has to be one of the nobler sentiments I’ve seen expressed on this board. Bravo, Upham.
And friedo, who asked:
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Since always. The idea comes from basic decency. Intolerance has become passé. Why wouldn’t you respect them? Just because you believe differently?
And, The Tim, I ask you the same question. Why wouldn’t you respect other beliefs and other people?
And your point is taken about not respecting beliefs. I admit I worded my thoughts poorly earlier, as a Christian, I myself do not respect some organized Christian churches (to the point I’m non-denominational and refuse to align myself with one specified line of thought).
However not respecting people I disagree with. And I’m speaking about respect for people as fellow human beings, not the looking-up-to-admiring sort of respect. Respect for another person’s feelings. Because correct me if I’m wrong, but if you act with disregard or disrespect for another’s feelings, won’t you normally be considered a jerk?
I think you’re all missing the point about the TRUE power of crystals… they can power a Freeze Ray and allow you to take over Gotham City.
Ok, i’m going to have to split for a bit, so i’m just basically going to sum up what i have to say here.
I think it was wrong of Johnny to openly mock the beliefs of someone else.
I also feel a thread about it is pretty useless.
I am of the opinion that a person has a right to their believes and that they should be free from harrasment about it.
I think that about covers it.
I will now go clean up a massive pile of dog puke.
Moebius - let’s not confuse respecting a belief for respecting a person’s right to believe.
There are many ideas and beliefs you may not respect, but we still respect that person’s right to believe in it, regardless of how silly it is to us.
Upham and Crunchy Frog, Where is the line past which I must respect the believer? I don’t see much of a difference between ridiculing one superstitious belief (crystal healing powers) and another (chain letters). I also don’t see either of you rushing to this thread to defend believers in the mystical power of chain letters. (Actually, I was kind of hoping at least one of you had posted to that thread… drat).
The reason I see these crystal wavers (and “homeopathic medicine” believers, while I’m at it) as not just harmless cranks, but actually dangerous, is that the reliance on nothing (and that’s what crystals do, nothing) to fight life-threatening illness discourages actual helpful medical attention. I have no problem with laughing right in the face of some crunchy fuckwad (no, not you Frog :D) that tells me that the reason I have allergies is that my fucking chi is out of whack, or that I need to take a really diluted (i.e. one molecule out of 10[sup]30[/sup]) preparation of jism squicked out of a goat’s ass to cure that burning sensation when I pee. And I get that sort of shit a lot, living in a particularly bohemian part of Austin Fucking Texas. If that makes me a jerk, than SO BE IT.
I guess I’m just a more passionate fighter of ignorance than you. (:rolleyes: at myself, 'cause there’s no tongue-in-cheek smilie)
Oh I agree with you there. I respect all people for simply being people. And I respect people’s right to believe what they want. But I don’t respect beliefs that I think are rediculous.
Oh, and when I say I get that sort of shit a lot, I don’t mean the burning sensation.
Crunchy Frog, there’s no confusion here. I respect other’s beliefs as well as their right to believe. I don’t have to believe the way others do to respect their beliefs, and I wouldn’t label others beliefs as ridiculous or silly, just because they are different from what I think.
Live and let live. That’s my motto.
Dammit. I previewed, and reread, etc. and didn’t catch this either. The jism has to be felched out of the goat’s ass. Squicking is something else, all together.
That right there, I think, is the biggest reason for the anti-crystal stance. Sure, you should respect people’d beliefs, but if you really cared about them, you’d throw away their crystal and get them some fucking antibiotics. Or, hell, let 'em keep their crystal AND give 'em the medicine, too. The best of both worlds!
That said, I stand by my Freeze Ray approach to crystals.
I ment respect in a different sense. Yes people deserve to be treated well regardless of what they believe.
I think that crystals are most useful for warp drives. Assuming you can find dilithium ones.
Upham wrote:
I’ve been through this debate plenty, believe me. I say, “Prove it,” and you say, “I know what I know.” I’m going to skip it on this cycle, thanks.
Who’s trying to teach? There’s already a thread for that. The usual customers will show up and say what they usually say. This time, I’m not going to. I’ve argued this point enough for now.
Crunchy Frog wrote:
O irony, where is thy sting?
Have you ever tried it?
Personally, I think you are the one being disrespectful, as you betray by using the word `education’ – you assume that a person disagrees with you because of a lack of education. By Jingo!
And plenty of more destructive ways. You didn’t have to read this thread, and you didn’t have to get angry. Personally, I think I’m being pretty harmless here.
But all the original poster was asking for was whether to buy a crystal for another person. Then a third person steps in and says something that struck me funny, and that was what I was making fun of. The original poster is several removes from the actual joke, so he’d have to be pretty narcissistic to take offense at it.
Upham wrote:
If you don’t see the difference, then to you I say: BWAAAAHAHAHAAH!
You have fallen for the common misconception that beliefs are sacred.
No, I’m mocking what I do not believe. Again, the difference is lost to you.
Crunchy Frog wrote:
People make fun of Christians all the time on this board.
Upham wrote:
You can’t prove that I’m not more high-minded and ecumenical than you think you are, but I believe it. But you don’t seem to be respecting this belief. Tsk.
My .02 cents (two one hundredths of a penny)…
Crystals as religion should be respected. Claims that crystals have healing powers should be challenged. A person who posts on a message board that fights ignorance, claiming that crystals have healing properties, should expect to be mocked.
Similarly, Christianity should be respected, but if someone on this board seriously suggests that a sick person get himself over to a faith healer, is he not opening himself up to derision?
Johnny boy I’d like to direct you to an earlier post of mine where i pretty well summed up what i think about the subject.
I don’t really care if you see it my way, i’m not going to argue with you over it, i’m just expressing my belief that you are being small minded, petty and stupid.
Johnny, (as i have said a few times, IMHO) you are being small minded, petty, and stupid.
Upham wrote:
I’m not the one claiming to be righteous here, you are. I’m having a laugh, and you’re the one getting hysterical. If you don’t intend to discuss the issue, then don’t post. Don’t read.
Or, if you feel like you should `educate’ me, then you’re going to need more than just your indignant opinion, because you’ve already sunk lower than I did – name calling, getting sanctimonious. You’ve got a long climb to the moral high ground. All I did was laugh. Well, alright, I also insinuated that you were not too bright. But I stand by that insinuation, first of all because I suspect you didn’t quite understand it, but also because I don’t think you’re quite dumb enough to make me prove it.
And you’re turning the focus on me instead of the topic at hand here. I had nothing to say in the thread the OP links to, because others were doing a good enough job without me.
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And just what is the logic beind this conclusion? How do you know what my assumptions are? Would you not say that people in the thread linked to in the OP are educating other posters about the known properties of crystals? You and I don’t agree right now, but when have I suggested that it is because you lack education?
I’m not angry, I haven’t worded any of my posts in a mean or viscious manner. I merely thought to point that although you may not agree with their beliefs and find it silly, laughing publicly at a person for what they believe isn’t justified. Although you’ve since explained that’s not what you were doing. (See below)
Then maybe you should have been more clear and actually had written what you were thinking in the OP, as all I can see is a title about crystal waivers in general, an OP with a single quote which serves as a link, and derisive laughter on your part. Pardon me for not being able to divine your thoughts from these sparce words, but I have yet to find any type of magical crystal that will help me be in tune with your brain waves. 
FTR - I don’t believe in crystals having powers. And since Johnny explained he wasn’t laughing at the belief in general, but a specific comment that struck him as funny, I see no reason to keep arguing with him here and apologizing for calling him narrow-minded. Now one last little thing…
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People make fun of Christians’ attitudes and some holier-than-thou behavior (how long before I’m accused of this? Any bets?). I’ve never seen a thread laughing at Christians simply for believing in Christ. There’s a difference there.
To start, I haven’t read the thread you link to. I can’t tell by the title of that thread what it’s about and had no interest in someone else’s friends (no offense, Milo). As for the difference in crystals and chain letters is that the belief in crystals borders on a religious belief. Let’s not try to lump all tings into one catagory, because there are many that believe Christianity is superstition as well. The world is not black and white and not everyting falls neatly into the catagories we create. Where you see simply 2 susperstitions, I see a superstition and a near-religious belief. (I say “near” just because I don’t know if it’s part of an actual religion or not)
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So instead of laughing and making the person feel stupid (and then usually defensive) we explain the scientific properties of crystals and hope they see reason (and a doctor, if needed).
John i’m hardly trying to take to any moral high ground here. You posed something expecting a response, i’m sure. I responded.
Didn’t say you ARE stupid, I said you’re BEING stupid.
I’m not trying to educate you at all, i’m saying what you’re doing is a little backwards (laughing at something rather then trying to understand it or bring that understanding to others)
Finally, man, i’m hardly getting “hysterical”, i did discuss the issue, and i’ll post untill a Mod tells me otherwise.