# You Decide You Have to Leave Your Country. Where Do You Go and Why? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 31, 2025, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-decide-you-have-to-leave-your-country-where-do-you-go-and-why/1016395 "2025-03-31T12:46:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![UDS1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e47774/32.png) [@UDS1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS1)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2025, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-decide-you-have-to-leave-your-country-where-do-you-go-and-why/1016395/61 "2025-04-02T01:38:55Z")
> [@PatrickLondon](#): > > As part of the common travel area, yes, but it doesn’t appear that that exempts UK citizens from having to apply for one or another permanent residence status in the Republic, let alone moving on elsewhere within the EU, other than as a time-limited visitor. UK citizens can enter, settle, live, work in Ireland; they don’t need to apply for any kind of permanent resident status (and vice versa for Irish citizens in the UK). UK citizenship doesn’t get you into any other EU country, but if a UK citizen resides in Ireland for five years or more, they can then be naturalised as an Irish (and therefore EU) citizen. So it could be an indirect and rather long-term route to residence in other EU countries. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2025, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-decide-you-have-to-leave-your-country-where-do-you-go-and-why/1016395/62 "2025-04-02T07:52:09Z")
> [@scudsucker](#): > > How could this friend fail to pick up basic Dutch in all this time? It’s a damn good question, but I think he’s inherently a bit lazy. I’m sure he has a few phrases/pleasantries in his armory, but he works in an international school (English being the default) and his social life revolves around a group of international and Dutch friends, so I think he just doesn’t feel the need. Doesn’t mean I agree with it! ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2025, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-decide-you-have-to-leave-your-country-where-do-you-go-and-why/1016395/63 "2025-04-02T07:58:52Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > Funnily, I used to live in Germany, and I love the Germans, and my step-mother is German, but I think I’d _not_ choose to live in Germany given the other options. The abovementioned French are much more culturally compatible with us. No, I’m not being ironic. It’s interesting your remarks about the French being more culturally compatible with the US than Germans. As a Brit, I find Germans much more closely aligned with ourselves - they like a joke, appreciate our humour, are pretty laid back, open to new experiences and cultures. I find the French far more straightened in their culture - though I do respect it. My wife works for a Danish company, with colleagues in every major European country. They ALL - Danish, Spanish, German, Polish, Irish etc - find the French a bit hard to align with. They seem less collaborative and open-minded. ---
**Author:** ![OldOlds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a3d4f5/32.png) [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2025, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-decide-you-have-to-leave-your-country-where-do-you-go-and-why/1016395/64 "2025-04-02T11:35:23Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > It’s interesting your remarks about the French being more culturally compatible with the US than Germans. As a Brit, I find Germans much more closely aligned with ourselves - they like a joke, appreciate our humour, are pretty laid back, open to new experiences and cultures. I find the French far more straightened in their culture - though I do respect it. I agree 100%- that’s why I said Germany. I’ve always felt there was a commonality between the US, UK, and Germany. One thin in particular about the three is the way friends (especially males) like to take the piss out of each other. That’s not something I experience everywhere, but the Germans and Brits get it. ---
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2025, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-decide-you-have-to-leave-your-country-where-do-you-go-and-why/1016395/65 "2025-04-02T15:22:09Z")
Mrs. H are in deep-red Missouri right now. In the reddest part. We’ve talked about leaving, but we will not leave our aging mothers behind. Once they’re both gone, it’s still unlikely we’ll leave, because reasons. But we’ve talked about it, and if a gun were put to our heads… Top of the list would likely be the UK. The cost of living there is high, and we’d be utterly broke, but hey, we speak the language, and there’s a strong [association] football culture there. But the northern latitude means 3:30 sunsets in the winter and just interminably long summer days, and I don’t think my Midwestern circadian rhythms are up for it. Australia has also come up, but there are cost of living concerns and weather concerns (climate change has come to Australia in full force, and it’s getting hotter there by the year). MY choice (Mrs. H hates it) would be Mexico City. I speak enough Spanish that I could figure things out. We could live like a king and queen on $1,000 per month. The low latitude plus high altitude means that there are four seasons, but it never gets below ~30F and rarely gets above ~80F, and the length of the day is more consistent across the seasons. And there’s a strong football culture there! I would fit right in! Mrs. H would be a fish out of water. Basically, we’re looking for four seasons (but not exceptionally hot or exceptionally cold), strong football culture (for me), speaks English (for her), low cost of living, and less-dramatic (than Missouri) swings in daylight hours. No place fully works for both of us. MDF likely comes closest, but again, though it’s my definite first choice, it’s Mrs. H’s definite last choice. By a significant margin. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2025, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-decide-you-have-to-leave-your-country-where-do-you-go-and-why/1016395/66 "2025-04-02T15:39:29Z")
Whereas i have fantasized about buying a house in Finland, and another in southern Chile, and living in perpetual summer, without it ever getting too warm. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2025, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-decide-you-have-to-leave-your-country-where-do-you-go-and-why/1016395/67 "2025-04-02T15:48:33Z")
> [@HeyHomie](#): > > Top of the list would likely be the UK. The cost of living there is high, and we’d be utterly broke, but hey, we speak the language, and there’s a strong [association] football culture there. But the northern latitude means 3:30 sunsets in the winter and just interminably long summer days, and I don’t think my Midwestern circadian rhythms are up for it. I’m not sure what cost of living is like in Missouri these days, but every time I visit the US I get major sticker shock at the prices, so suspect you wouldn’t find us as expensive as you might imagine. And the long summer days are gloooorious and not too hot (winter, ok, it gets dark at 4pm, but that’s only really Dec/Jan. At least it doesn’t get that cold). Hey, we have cheaper eggs! ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2025, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-decide-you-have-to-leave-your-country-where-do-you-go-and-why/1016395/68 "2025-04-02T16:03:23Z")
If I could move _anywhere_, without regard for legalities and practicalities? The UK in a heartbeat. Like home, except with better live theatre, easier access to Europe, and pubs. Practically speaking – probably South Korea or Japan, because I understand there’s a high demand for English teachers and they pay decently, but I’ve never visited either country and it’s totally possible that I might hate it. Portugal is tempting (I meet the passive income requirement for a D7 visa, barely, and I know I _do_ like it there), but I’m not sure I would stay eligible long-term, and I’d either have to find some sort of remote work or spend down my savings. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2025, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-decide-you-have-to-leave-your-country-where-do-you-go-and-why/1016395/69 "2025-04-02T16:16:50Z")
> [@HeyHomie](#): > > Basically, we’re looking for four seasons (but not exceptionally hot or exceptionally cold), strong football culture (for me), speaks English (for her), low cost of living, and less-dramatic (than Missouri) swings in daylight hours. South Africa ticks every one of those boxes. ---
**Author:** ![LurkMeister](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3da27b/32.png) [@LurkMeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkMeister)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2025, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-decide-you-have-to-leave-your-country-where-do-you-go-and-why/1016395/70 "2025-04-02T21:33:41Z")
As I’ve mentioned elsewhere, if I can get the documentation together and go through the red tape I do qualify for Irish citizenship. I also have relatives there, although I’ve never been in direct contact with them. Ireland has the advantage that I (more or less) speak the language. The biggest issue with migrating there would be whether I would be able to continue collecting, and live on, my Federal pension. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2025, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-decide-you-have-to-leave-your-country-where-do-you-go-and-why/1016395/71 "2025-04-02T22:15:07Z")
Can you get by with only English in South Africa? ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2025, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-decide-you-have-to-leave-your-country-where-do-you-go-and-why/1016395/72 "2025-04-02T23:37:48Z")
In the unlikely circumstance I’d have to leave this country and in the more likely instance I chose to spend a significant part of the year away in retirement I’d be looking to move to Sri Lanka, in particular the highlands. I don’t speak either Sinhala or Tamil but am fluent in cricket which might almost be enough. ---
**Author:** ![MacDoc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/macdoc/32/18696_2.png) [@MacDoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacDoc)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2025, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-decide-you-have-to-leave-your-country-where-do-you-go-and-why/1016395/73 "2025-04-02T23:48:51Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Can you get by with only English in South Africa? Yes you can - Western Cape is paradise Hermanus is lovely but touristy I spent my winters here > **[Montagu, South Africa](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montagu,_South_Africa)** > > Montagu is a town in the Western Cape province of South Africa, about 180 kilometres (110 mi) from Cape Town in the Western Little Karoo. > The town is named after former secretary of the Cape Colony, John Montagu, but was once known as Agter Cogman's Kloof, Cogman's Kloof linking the town and railway station. It is situated at the confluence of the Keisie and Kingna rivers. > Montagu was founded on the farm "Uitvlugt" in 1851, and is known for its hot mineral springs and scenic mountains. It i... Further on the edge of nothing > **[Witsand](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witsand)** > > Witsand, Western Cape, South Africa, is a small coastal town, situated on the banks of the Breede River estuary. Witsand (Western Cape) is home to 4 kilometers of clean, sandy beaches, surrounded by a magnificent variety of Cape Fynbos species and the Breede River. The town is known as the Whale Nursery of South Africa due to the high concentration of whales in the bay between June and November. Witsand is an authentic water-sport and adventure destination with kite-surfing, surfing, standup padd... 1 Rand = 5 cents US. [![](https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/0b/58/a0/76/menu.jpg) ](https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/0b/58/a0/76/menu.jpg) So seafood chowder on a spectacular waterfront is $3.20 in Hermanus - been there done that. [![](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a7/Hermanus_Old_Harbour.jpg/1920px-Hermanus_Old_Harbour.jpg) ](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a7/Hermanus_Old_Harbour.jpg/1920px-Hermanus_Old_Harbour.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2025, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-decide-you-have-to-leave-your-country-where-do-you-go-and-why/1016395/74 "2025-04-03T04:56:20Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Can you get by with only English in South Africa? Very much so. Many White South Africans do, after all. ---
**Author:** ![scudsucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scudsucker/32/14101_2.png) [@scudsucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scudsucker)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2025, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-decide-you-have-to-leave-your-country-where-do-you-go-and-why/1016395/75 "2025-04-03T10:14:53Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > South Africa ticks every one of those boxes Except for the seasons thing… famously (or infamously) Cape Town can experience all seasons in one day… But it is a great place, and cheap. Our eggs are something like US$ 1.70 for 6. (Aside, I prefer the McDonalds price comparison index to Donald’s eggs. A Big Mac will cost you about US$ 2.20) Edit to add: because I moved here as an adult, my Afrikaans is quite limited, and Cape Town is very bilingual, though the purity of the Afrikaans is debateable… there is a lot of slang in areas I frequent. Pure Afrikaans is quite easy to understand, though I still can’t speak it. Everyone speaks English. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2025, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-decide-you-have-to-leave-your-country-where-do-you-go-and-why/1016395/76 "2025-04-03T10:18:42Z")
> [@scudsucker](#): > > Except for the seasons thing Humour aside, no, we do have 4 seasons here. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2025, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-decide-you-have-to-leave-your-country-where-do-you-go-and-why/1016395/77 "2025-04-03T10:52:35Z")
> [@scudsucker](#): > > Cape Town is very bilingual Actually, very trilingual. A large percentage speak English, Afrikaans _and_ Xhosa. ---
**Author:** ![scudsucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scudsucker/32/14101_2.png) [@scudsucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scudsucker)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2025, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-decide-you-have-to-leave-your-country-where-do-you-go-and-why/1016395/78 "2025-04-03T11:36:18Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > A large percentage speak English, Afrikaans _and_ Xhosa I am glad to say both my kids (junior school) are learning all three. Unfortunately, I am divorced, but my plan was to learn Xhosa and Afrikaans alongside them, by basically doing the homework set given to them, for myself. Not cheating, but learning by proxy ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2025, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-decide-you-have-to-leave-your-country-where-do-you-go-and-why/1016395/79 "2025-04-03T11:40:05Z")
If we pay attention to current immigration laws, I could get an Israeli passport but I’m not sure I’d want to live there. Other countries we’ve discussed in passing are Spain and Portugal. If we ignore current immigration laws I’d seriously look at New Zealand, Australia, France, Italy, and Switzerland. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2025, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-decide-you-have-to-leave-your-country-where-do-you-go-and-why/1016395/80 "2025-04-03T19:34:51Z")
What’s the security situation in South Africa these days? Like I said upthread, I’d previously considered it, but it was already a pretty rough place outside of the military-like compounds. I spent nearly all of my time in Pretoria (Silverton), and the expats I personally know are from the same area. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-decide-you-have-to-leave-your-country-where-do-you-go-and-why/1016395.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-decide-you-have-to-leave-your-country-where-do-you-go-and-why/1016395.md?page=5)