# You die and have no family and no will- what happens to money you have in the bank? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 9, 2008, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-die-and-have-no-family-and-no-will-what-happens-to-money-you-have-in-the-bank/432856 "2008-01-09T14:59:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Cluricaun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bb73d2/32.png) [@Cluricaun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cluricaun)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2008, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-die-and-have-no-family-and-no-will-what-happens-to-money-you-have-in-the-bank/432856/21 "2008-01-09T17:05:07Z")
You should have two wills actually, a living will and a last will and testament. The living will is far more often overlooked and it specifies what you want if you were to become incapacitated; would you want to be on a ventilator and have a feeding tube, or would you rather not live as a vegetable? Who would you like to be appointed as the person with power of attorney for you to make all of your decisions? You’ll never be Terri Schiavo if you take the time to plan out what your wishes are before something like that ever happened. What good is planning on what everyone will do with your stuff after you’re dead if they fuck up the rest of your life? ---
**Author:** ![Caffeine.addict](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f475e1/32.png) [@Caffeine.addict](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caffeine.addict)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2008, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-die-and-have-no-family-and-no-will-what-happens-to-money-you-have-in-the-bank/432856/22 "2008-01-09T17:09:54Z")
Basically, if you die intestate, the probate court if such a thing exists in your state will follow the intestacy statute. In Virginia, they will go up the family tree until they find somebody. It could be a parent, a sibling, a grandparent, a cousin, and so forth. You may have the option depending on the bank of making the account a POD Account [QUOTE=] [From the FDIC website](http://www.fdic.gov/deposit/deposits/insuringdeposits/) Payable-on-death (POD) accounts – also known as testamentary or Totten Trust accounts – are the most common form of revocable trust deposits. These informal revocable trusts are created when the account owner signs an agreement – usually part of the bank’s signature card – stating that the deposits will be payable to one or more named beneficiaries upon the owner’s death. [/QUOTE] It is still a really good idea to have some kind of estate planning document in place. Also if you are not married, what happens if you are incapacitated? Who will make those decisions? The hospital may not allow you SO to decide. You might want to have a Medical Power of Attorney in place as well. What happens if you become incapacitated? Who will pay the bills? You should probably speak to an attorney who does Estate Planning. Every state’s laws are different and what works in one state may very well not work in another state. Any advice that you get here might not apply to your situation. Also, estate litigation can get very expensive. Most attorneys won’t do it on a contingency basis and because of the nature of the suit, people fight it to the bitter end. Often times it drains the estate. You should leave things as ordered as possible. ---
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2008, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-die-and-have-no-family-and-no-will-what-happens-to-money-you-have-in-the-bank/432856/23 "2008-01-09T17:20:10Z")
[QUOTE=Gfactor] Why not just put the SO on the account? I mean it’s one thing to just not think about it, but if you’re thinking about it, why not do a simple will or put the SO on the account? Then you don’t have to worry about workarounds. The book I linked in my last post has forms. [/QUOTE] Believe it or not, I want them to have my money after I die, but not access to it before. And she has bad credit and I don’t want someone suing her for some crap and them being able to get me to pay for it. But I will go the will route, just lazy about doing it. If it were possible to have her listed at the bank as the beneficiary without access until I’m dead, that would be ideal, but oh well. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2008, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-die-and-have-no-family-and-no-will-what-happens-to-money-you-have-in-the-bank/432856/24 "2008-01-09T17:32:38Z")
[QUOTE=Wee Bairn] Believe it or not, I want them to have my money after I die, but not access to it before. And she has bad credit and I don’t want someone suing her for some crap and them being able to get me to pay for it. [/QUOTE] A simple will gives you certainty; a workaround does not. If you don’t want to meet with a lawyer, especially if you have a small estate. Check out a book. The requirements are fairly easy to meet, and there are forms all over the place. [http://www.probate.co.shelby.tn.us/court\_clerks/probate\_court/wills.htm](http://www.probate.co.shelby.tn.us/court_clerks/probate_court/wills.htm) Or a POD account as **Caffeine.addict** mentioned: > [@](#): > > (B) Totten Trust Account. A Totten Trust Account is an informal trust account, reflected on our records, but without a written trust agreement, where the Account is owned by the trustee. The beneficiaries have no right to any funds in the Account during the trustee’s lifetime. As the owner of the Account, the trustee may withdraw money from the Account and may, by written direction to us, change the beneficiary under the Account. When the trustee dies, the Account is owned by the named beneficiary or beneficiaries. If the Totten Trust Account is held by more than one trustee, the trustees will be subject to the rules pertaining to joint account ownership as set forth above. If there is no surviving beneficiary upon the death of the last trustee, state law will determine ownership of the funds in the Account. > > (C) P.O.D. Account. A Payable on Death (P.O.D.) Account is an account payable to the Account Holder during his or her lifetime. As the owner of the Account, you may withdraw money from the Account and may, by written direction to us, change the P.O.D. payee(s) under the Account. When the Account Holder dies, the Account is owned by the P.O.D. payee(s). If the P.O.D. Account is held by more than one person, each Account Holder will be subject to the rules pertaining to joint account ownership as set forth above. If there is more than one surviving P .O.D. payee, the respective interest of each shall be deemed to be in equal shares, unless otherwise stated in the Financial Institution’s deposit account records and as allowed by applicable state law. If a living trust is designated as a P.O.D. beneficiary/payee, we may require Account Holder to deliver a copy of certification of trust or other documents and authorizations as we may deem necessary or appropriate. If there is no surviving P .O.D. payee upon the death of the last owner, state law will determine ownership of the funds in the Account. [KUBET Togel Online 2026 ❖ Prediksi Toto 2D, 3D, 4D Akurat & Terpercaya](http://www.tncommercebank.com/DisclosureStatement.asp) ---
**Author:** ![Caffeine.addict](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f475e1/32.png) [@Caffeine.addict](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caffeine.addict)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2008, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-die-and-have-no-family-and-no-will-what-happens-to-money-you-have-in-the-bank/432856/25 "2008-01-09T17:43:09Z")
I’ve had some bad experience when I’ve dealt with people who use those forms. One of the forms I saw used didn’t have a self proving affidavit which meant that the executor had to track down the witnesses ten years after the fact. One guy who did it himself with some form he found somewhere, set up a testamentary trust but didn’t bother designating a trustee. Oops. That was somewhat expensive for the widow. I may have a bias against do it yourself forms so take my advice with a huge heaping bowl of salt. Just out of curiosity, do you own your house? If so, how is it titled? ---
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2008, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-die-and-have-no-family-and-no-will-what-happens-to-money-you-have-in-the-bank/432856/26 "2008-01-09T17:45:15Z")
[QUOTE=Caffeine.addict] I’ve had some bad experience when I’ve dealt with people who use those forms. One of the forms I saw used didn’t have a self proving affidavit which meant that the executor had to track down the witnesses ten years after the fact. One guy who did it himself with some form he found somewhere, set up a testamentary trust but didn’t bother designating a trustee. Oops. That was somewhat expensive for the widow. I may have a bias against do it yourself forms so take my advice with a huge heaping bowl of salt. Just out of curiosity, do you own your house? If so, how is it titled? [/QUOTE] House in my name only, will be paid off in 20 years- the SO would have no interest in remaining there when I go, though. ---
**Author:** ![Cluricaun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bb73d2/32.png) [@Cluricaun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cluricaun)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2008, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-die-and-have-no-family-and-no-will-what-happens-to-money-you-have-in-the-bank/432856/27 "2008-01-09T17:50:50Z")
Right, but do you want your SO to be able to sell your home and have the proceeds? ---
**Author:** ![Caffeine.addict](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f475e1/32.png) [@Caffeine.addict](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caffeine.addict)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2008, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-die-and-have-no-family-and-no-will-what-happens-to-money-you-have-in-the-bank/432856/28 "2008-01-09T17:57:46Z")
Like **Cluricaun** said, what do you want to happen with the house when you go? Do you want your folk to have it? Your siblings? Your SO to get the proceeds of the sale? You really should call a few attorneys and find out what it will cost to get at least a simple will, living will and medical power of attorney. ---
**Author:** ![Cluricaun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bb73d2/32.png) [@Cluricaun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cluricaun)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2008, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-die-and-have-no-family-and-no-will-what-happens-to-money-you-have-in-the-bank/432856/29 "2008-01-09T18:13:20Z")
[QUOTE=Caffine.addict] You really should call a few attorneys and find out what it will cost to get at least a simple will, living will and medical power of attorney. [/QUOTE] Or even a living trust if you want to go that route, but like **Caffeine.addict** said a simple phone call with a local estate planner will likely do you a world of good and take care of a great deal more things than most people ever manage to do for themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2008, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-die-and-have-no-family-and-no-will-what-happens-to-money-you-have-in-the-bank/432856/30 "2008-01-09T18:53:35Z")
[QUOTE=Cluricaun] Right, but do you want your SO to be able to sell your home and have the proceeds? [/QUOTE] Good point- if there were any profits , yes, I’d rather they have them. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2008, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-die-and-have-no-family-and-no-will-what-happens-to-money-you-have-in-the-bank/432856/31 "2008-01-09T18:54:11Z")
[QUOTE=Caffeine.addict] I’ve had some bad experience when I’ve dealt with people who use those forms. [/QUOTE] It’s not the best practice for sure. Then again, I had a case involving a 40 year-old, already probated will, drafted by a lawyer, that attempted to create a fee tail. In other words, both the drafter and the lawyer who had probated the will had screwed up and the judge had not caught the error. 😃 That was also an expensive mess to clean up. I’ll send you a copy of the brief if you are interested. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2008, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-die-and-have-no-family-and-no-will-what-happens-to-money-you-have-in-the-bank/432856/32 "2008-01-09T19:09:08Z")
[QUOTE=Wee Bairn] Jesus, you mean my fucking parents who I have nothing to do with could come in and take money over a SO? What the fuck? [/QUOTE] There is a very old, well-known, and simple way of ensuring that the law recognizes the interests and rights of your domestic partner. It’s called marriage. ---
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2008, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-die-and-have-no-family-and-no-will-what-happens-to-money-you-have-in-the-bank/432856/33 "2008-01-09T19:12:43Z")
[QUOTE=acsenray] There is a very old, well-known, and simple way of ensuring that the law recognizes the interests and rights of your domestic partner. It’s called marriage. [/QUOTE] Without getting in to that debate 🙂 , how about if you wanted an ex-SO to have your money because you’re still friends? Or just a really close friend you have no romantic interest in? ---
**Author:** ![lizardling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f4b2a3/32.png) [@lizardling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lizardling)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2008, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-die-and-have-no-family-and-no-will-what-happens-to-money-you-have-in-the-bank/432856/34 "2008-01-09T19:15:12Z")
[QUOTE=Cluricaun] You should have two wills actually, a living will and a last will and testament. The living will is far more often overlooked and it specifies what you want if you were to become incapacitated; would you want to be on a ventilator and have a feeding tube, or would you rather not live as a vegetable? Who would you like to be appointed as the person with power of attorney for you to make all of your decisions? You’ll never be Terri Schiavo if you take the time to plan out what your wishes are before something like that ever happened. What good is planning on what everyone will do with your stuff after you’re dead if they fuck up the rest of your life? [/QUOTE] IANAL. Speaking of living wills, I believe there was also an article a few months ago in the local paper about providing for DPOAs (durable powers of attorney) to help drive home the point about any provisions made in a living will plus manage finances in the person’s incapacitation. I remember this since the scenario presented was rather memorable. I mailed the link off to my dad, who’s a) a GP and b) no longer a spring chicken, to say the least, and his reaction was that he’d definitely take a look into it for mom and himself. [Article text](http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/health/2003977359_liztaylor29.html) – WA state specific FTR. From the text of the column, it does sound like you have to be really careful about DPOAs but that it’s a huge advantage when dealing with entities such as Social Security, IRS, etc. /sigh I really need to get off my duff and see about setting up all of the above since I’m a year closer to being unable to deny that I’m a Grown Up. ---
**Author:** ![Rayne\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df705f/32.png) [@Rayne\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rayne_Man)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2008, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-die-and-have-no-family-and-no-will-what-happens-to-money-you-have-in-the-bank/432856/35 "2008-01-09T19:26:18Z")
In the UK there are several companies who try and trace relatives who may be entitled to assets from distant relatives who have died without leaving a will. Of course they don’t do it for nothing , but charge a percentage of the money recovered. If the money is unclaimed after several years, HM Treasury pockets it. The BBC even made a TV series about a couple of these firms. Each Thursday the government publishes a list of those people who have left unclaimed estates. It is then a frantic race between these companies to trace any relatives and get their slice of the money. Some details here :- [Heir Hunters](http://www.bbc.co.uk/lifestyle/tv_and_radio/heirhunters_index.shtml) ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2008, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-die-and-have-no-family-and-no-will-what-happens-to-money-you-have-in-the-bank/432856/36 "2008-01-09T19:43:17Z")
[QUOTE=Wee Bairn] Jesus, you mean my fucking parents who I have nothing to do with could come in and take money over a SO? What the fuck? [/QUOTE] Damn! If only there was some legal mechanism where you could prevent this from happening! Where you could make sure your **will** in the matter is known and respected after your death! Seriously though - it certainly seems from this thread that you need a bit more estate planning, especially since you apparently own a house. ---
**Author:** ![Caffeine.addict](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f475e1/32.png) [@Caffeine.addict](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caffeine.addict)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2008, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-die-and-have-no-family-and-no-will-what-happens-to-money-you-have-in-the-bank/432856/37 "2008-01-09T19:44:08Z")
[QUOTE=Gfactor] It’s not the best practice for sure. Then again, I had a case involving a 40 year-old, already probated will, drafted by a lawyer, that attempted to create a fee tail. In other words, both the drafter and the lawyer who had probated the will had screwed up and the judge had not caught the error. 😃 That was also an expensive mess to clean up. I’ll send you a copy of the brief if you are interested. [/QUOTE] 😕 Why would someone want to create a fee tail, especially since from what I can tell they aren’t allowed in Michigan? Were they ever allowed? I would curious to read that brief. ---
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2008, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-die-and-have-no-family-and-no-will-what-happens-to-money-you-have-in-the-bank/432856/38 "2008-01-09T19:51:05Z")
[QUOTE=muldoonthief] Damn! If only there was some legal mechanism where you could prevent this from happening! Where you could make sure your **will** in the matter is known and respected after your death! [/QUOTE] The depths of my laziness would astound you- I don’t like having to stop at the convenience store for bread 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Cluricaun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bb73d2/32.png) [@Cluricaun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cluricaun)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2008, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-die-and-have-no-family-and-no-will-what-happens-to-money-you-have-in-the-bank/432856/39 "2008-01-09T19:59:08Z")
[QUOTE=Wee Bairn] The depths of my laziness would astound you- I don’t like having to stop at the convenience store for bread 🙂 [/QUOTE] Seriously though, this is not exactly screamingly difficult stuff to do, mostly answering questions, many of them yes or no style. I’ll assume that you don’t have untold millions divested in multiple corporate entities (only because you’d already have done something like this) however whatever time and money you spend now will be trivial compared to the time and money that your heirs will suffer if these things aren’t in place. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2008, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-die-and-have-no-family-and-no-will-what-happens-to-money-you-have-in-the-bank/432856/40 "2008-01-09T20:27:14Z")
[QUOTE=Caffeine.addict] 😕 Why would someone want to create a fee tail, especially since from what I can tell they aren’t allowed in Michigan? Were they ever allowed? I would curious to read that brief. [/QUOTE] Went something like this (I’m simplifying because this happened a while back): A woman goes to an attorney and says she wants a will, apparently not checking to see if the attorney is experienced in drafting wills. Lawyer drafts residuary clause (I think it was the residuary that was the problem) using language that he either copied from someone else or vaguely remembered hearing in law school. The grant says, “To A and the heirs of her body.” That’s a fee tail. But fee tails were abolished in MI back in 1821: [http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(gbidlu3euivdbtnldnhwrwrf)](http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(gbidlu3euivdbtnldnhwrwrf)))/mileg.aspx?page=GetObject&objectname=mcl-554-3&queryid=21495125&highlight=fee%20tail It should be a fee simple. End of story, right? Nope. She dies. Estate gets probated by general practitioner number 2 who lists the interest in the property as “contingent remainder.” Time passes. Residuary beneficiary dies, leaving a spouse who wants to probate the estate. By now they’ve moved out of state. He can’t complete the probate in the other state because the remainder shows as contingent. \*\*Gfactor \*\* is retained to fix the boo boo. Unfortunately, the original estate was probated in Wayne County, Michigan, which IMO is probably the worst place in the country to probate an estate. \*\*Gfactor \*\* contacts counsel representing some descendants who need to get notice of the proceedings, asks if she will stipulate to the modification. She says, yes, wait, no, wait, I’ll let you know. \*\*Gfactor \*\* says, “ok, will you stipulate to the facts? That will save us all time and money.” She says yes, and then doesn’t. \*\*Gfactor \*\* files motion seeking to correct the clerical error. Attorney for other descendants opposes motion based on a brand new claim that the grant was really intended as a class gift." Now here’s the real probate nightmare. My client decided to settle. Ok. Easy right? Prepare an order and submit it. Did it; judge signed it and then went on vacation. Here’s why Wayne County is not the place to die in Michigan. Wayne County has what they call Probate Analysts. Their position isn’t authorized by any statute or rule, nor is procedure before them regulated in any way. Effectively they are bridge trolls. The clerks won’t accept anything for filing unless the analysts sign off on it–including orders signed by judges. Let me say that again–in Wayne County, Michigan, a Bureaucrat with no official authority can prevent a judge from entering an order–even if nobody opposes it. \*The probate analyst’s office decided to close the order department for four months. \* That means it’ll take four months just for them to start clearing the backlog of orders which, by all rights, the clerk should enter as a matter of course. Client shits pants. \*\*Gfactor \*\* hits ceiling, sends threatening letter. **Gfactor** gets call from probate analyst supervisor guy. He says, ok, I looked at the order and there’s a problem: This order lacks x, y, and z, and we need these three forms completed in triplicate in order to file your order. \*\*Gfactor \*\* says: a. Bullshit. You’re making those requirements up. b. The judge already reviewed the order and found it acceptable. Analyst says, “well I don’t find it acceptable.” **Gfactor** says, “wait, you have the authority to countermand a judge’s order? Where does it say I even need to talk to you?” Analyst guy gets grouchy; tells \*\*Gfactor \*\* what he can do with the order. \*\*Gfactor \*\* says, “ok, if I put it there, \*then \* will you file it?” Analyst fails to get joke. **Gfactor** says, “ok, well I suppose we’ll resolve this in the contempt proceding that I file. Good day sir.” Hangs up. Analyst calls back with an expedient compromise, having now actually read the briefs and the order. \*\*Gfactor \*\* just needs to sign one document. Analyst says \*\*Gfactor \*\* would have won the motion and should not have settled. **Gfactor** says whoopee. I’ll send the brief this evening. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-die-and-have-no-family-and-no-will-what-happens-to-money-you-have-in-the-bank/432856.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-die-and-have-no-family-and-no-will-what-happens-to-money-you-have-in-the-bank/432856.md?page=3)