# You Don't Know Me, and I Have a Gun! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 11, 2005, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-know-me-and-i-have-a-gun/325740 "2005-10-11T12:25:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![TheEggman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/fbc32d/32.png) [@TheEggman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheEggman)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-know-me-and-i-have-a-gun/325740/1 "2005-10-11T12:25:25Z")
**You Don’t Know Me, and I Have a Gun!** You don’t know me, or maybe you just don’t know that you do. I am your neighbor, doctor, clergyman, nurse or just another nameless, faceless stranger in the crowd. I have a state authorized, court issued permit to carry a concealed handgun. I do so whenever possible. Though you don’t know me, there are a few things, however, you should know about me. In my case, I was fingerprinted by the local police for an FBI criminal background check. Before that, I had to pass state and local background checks. I had to present evidence to the court of approved training in firearms laws, safety and marksmanship before my application would even be accepted. I am not a felon, junkie, drug dealer, stalker or even a shoplifter since any number of indiscretions including alcohol or other drug abuse or even simple assault or a restraining order would disqualify me from holding a permit. My classroom training covered when it is appropriate and legal to even indicate that I have a gun, much less display it or actually use deadly force. Doing so in any circumstance, under which I am not in immediate fear for my life or the life of another, would mean more than the loss of my permit. Most likely, I would also be charged with brandishing a weapon, disorderly conduct and/or assault. If it was determined that my use of deadly force was **not** to protect a life in immediate danger, I would probably be charged with second-degree murder or first-degree manslaughter. On top of these, I would also face civil liability. Like most people who legally carry concealed handguns, I practice regularly at a range. I am well aware of the laws and regulations affecting me. I and my fellow permit holders are generally more well trained and practiced than many law enforcement officers. I am not a non-resident alien. I am a good citizen, and I vote. I am aware of the responsibility I bear, and I will walk or run away rather than risk confrontation. I will retreat as fast and as far as possible. I always avoid conflict. I know that should a situation escalate, I could be identified as the instigator and face losing my right to carry, or much worse. Should the need arise, however, I will act swiftly, intelligently and decisively to protect my life and the lives of those around me Are you still afraid of me? In my home state of Virginia, not one permit holder has been convicted of a violent gun crime despite more than 120,000 issued permits. Throughout the entire United States, no police officer has been killed by a person with a permit to carry a handgun. A number have, however, been assisted and even rescued by armed, law abiding citizens. You should feel a degree of comfort knowing that there may be someone nearby with means, motive and training to possibly save your life, or that of those around you. Criminals, on the other hand, should feel fear. They never know if their next intended victim may armed, trained, and ready to effectively defend themselves. If you feel safer patronizing establishments with a NO GUNS ALLOWED policy, please keep in mind that the criminals don’t obey the signs or the laws. That is why we call them criminals. Criminals know that the law-abiding customers of that establishment are easy prey, and will have little to no fear of the consequences of their actions. The hallways and parking lots of these establishments might just as well post a sign saying… **ATTENTION CRIMINALS** This is a Defense Free Crime Zone All Law Abiding Patrons of this Establishment Have Been Disarmed For Your Convenience There is no need to fear me, I am just another loyal, law abiding American. You **should** , however, be very afraid of those who endeavor to turn the entire law abiding population of our great country into defenseless victims. ---
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-know-me-and-i-have-a-gun/325740/2 "2005-10-11T12:30:48Z")
> [@](#): > > Are you still afraid of me? Yes, but only because you sound like you get a really mean drunk. Of course, being British, I have [less](http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_mur_wit_fir) to be afraid _of_. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-know-me-and-i-have-a-gun/325740/3 "2005-10-11T12:59:02Z")
**You Don’t Know Me, and I Favor Gun Control!** But that does not mean I want to take away your gun. Get over it. ---
**Author:** ![TheEggman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/fbc32d/32.png) [@TheEggman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheEggman)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-know-me-and-i-have-a-gun/325740/4 "2005-10-11T13:02:04Z")
> [@SentientMeat](#): > > Yes, but only because you sound like you get a really mean drunk. > > Of course, being British, I have [less](http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_mur_wit_fir) to be afraid _of_. My ability and responsibility to defend myself and my family trumps any desire to consume spirits. (BTW, FWIW I am in the wine business) The right to carry a firearm comes with the responsibility to carry it sensibly, including absolutely NO alcohol. Even if I did get intoxicated, _which I don’t,_ the first thing to go are the firearm and the car keys. Therefore, as you have no background on which to base your comment, I’ll ignore it and address a real issue. Being British, you have seen a HUGE increase in violent crimes against persons since the honest citizens — errr — subjects were disarmed. Ditto for Austrailia and other recently disarmed nations. **Not my opinion, but fact.** See: When Guns Are Finally Banned [http://www.the-eggman.com/writings/gun\_ban.html](http://www.the-eggman.com/writings/gun_ban.html) ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-know-me-and-i-have-a-gun/325740/5 "2005-10-11T13:03:46Z")
First post: a reprint of an article posted in many other places. Second post: a call to visit your website. I don’t know you, but I’m not impressed by your argumentative style. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-know-me-and-i-have-a-gun/325740/6 "2005-10-11T13:12:18Z")
> [@TheEggman](#): > > Being British, you have seen a HUGE increase in violent crimes against persons since the honest citizens — errr — subjects were disarmed. Ditto for Austrailia and other recently disarmed nations. **Not my opinion, but fact.** > > See: When Guns Are Finally Banned > [http://www.the-eggman.com/writings/gun\_ban.html](http://www.the-eggman.com/writings/gun_ban.html) Bollocks, not my opinion but fact. British citizens were never armed so they could not have been ‘disarmed’. Already extremely restricted gun ownership restricted further (mainly gun clubs), but not enough to stop any mad-ass country person, like one of my relatives who still has a gun license despite a police record of him threatening to shoot people when drunk. Nothing whatsoever to do with crime rate either as it was never held in check by criminal fear of gun toting vigilantes. Kids can play with less fear of gun toting maniacs blasting them though. ---
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-know-me-and-i-have-a-gun/325740/7 "2005-10-11T13:12:42Z")
> [@](#): > > Being British, you have seen a HUGE increase in violent crimes against persons since the honest citizens — errr — subjects were disarmed. We have pretty much _always_ been disarmed. And we’re not significantly [more violent](http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_ass_cap) than you guys. It’s just that, for a similar assault rate, something is somehow making _your_ assaults far more _lethal_. ---
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-know-me-and-i-have-a-gun/325740/8 "2005-10-11T13:22:39Z")
Incidentally, [Cecil](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/041105.html) largely agrees: any increase in violence cannot be correlated with changes in UK gun laws. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-know-me-and-i-have-a-gun/325740/9 "2005-10-11T13:24:40Z")
You’re a big man! A BIG man!! ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-know-me-and-i-have-a-gun/325740/10 "2005-10-11T13:40:49Z")
> [@TheEggman](#): > > Being British, you have seen a HUGE increase in violent crimes against persons since the honest citizens — errr — subjects were disarmed. … **Not my opinion, but fact.** See, _ **now** _ I’m afraid of you, because, having demonstrated the ability to talk out of your arse like this, I feel somewhat disinclined to trust you about all the other things you said earlier. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-know-me-and-i-have-a-gun/325740/11 "2005-10-11T13:56:39Z")
> [@TheEggman](#): > > You don’t know me, or maybe you just don’t know that you do. I am your neighbor, doctor, **clergyman** , nurse or just another nameless, faceless stranger in the crowd. I have a state authorized, court issued permit to carry a concealed handgun. I do so whenever possible. My emphasis. All I can say is, huh? Kill 'em all and let God sort ‘em out’? Anyway, **TheEggman** , you don’t know me either. Why do you fear me so much that you’ve gotta carry a handgun around all the time? I’m not a big or fearsome-looking gent, yet in 52 years I’ve never been in a situation where having a handgun handy would have been of any use whatever. How many times have you personally had to shoot, or even brandish, your concealed weapon? Locations, dates and circumstances, please. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-know-me-and-i-have-a-gun/325740/12 "2005-10-11T13:58:31Z")
> [@TheEggman](#): > > My ability and responsibility to defend myself and my family trumps any desire to consume spirits. (BTW, FWIW I am in the wine business) > > The right to carry a firearm comes with the responsibility to carry it sensibly, including absolutely NO alcohol. Even if I did get intoxicated, _which I don’t,_ the first thing to go are the firearm and the car keys. Therefore, as you have no background on which to base your comment, I’ll ignore it and address a real issue. > > Being British, you have seen a HUGE increase in violent crimes against persons since the honest citizens — errr — subjects were disarmed. Ditto for Austrailia and other recently disarmed nations. **Not my opinion, but fact.** > > See: When Guns Are Finally Banned > [http://www.the-eggman.com/writings/gun\_ban.html](http://www.the-eggman.com/writings/gun_ban.html) Are you perhaps citing _yourself_ as an authority? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![TheEggman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/fbc32d/32.png) [@TheEggman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheEggman)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-know-me-and-i-have-a-gun/325740/13 "2005-10-11T15:39:26Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > My emphasis. All I can say is, huh? Kill 'em all and let God sort ‘em out’? > > Anyway, **TheEggman** , you don’t know me either. Why do you fear me so much that you’ve gotta carry a handgun around all the time? I’m not a big or fearsome-looking gent, yet in 52 years I’ve never been in a situation where having a handgun handy would have been of any use whatever. > > How many times have you personally had to shoot, or even brandish, your concealed weapon? Locations, dates and circumstances, please. Thank you for the civil, constructive reply! (Didn’t mean to start a malestrom) I’m NOT afraid of you, or any of the other law-abiding citizens out there (or in here). YOU are not the problem. I’m afraid of the gangs and criminals with guns, knives and clubs. As a matter of fact, three years ago, leaving a shopping center at night in a somewhat remote part of the parking lot, my wife and I were faced with two would-be muggers and not a lot of options for escape. The mere display of my defensive weapon caused them to run (they were later caught, and back out on the street in a few days, but that’s another serious social issue) so I can say I have had one defensive use that I will speak about. Even if that had NOT been the case, The adage ‘rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it’ applies. I don’t anticipate being an a major auto accident, and have in fact, never been in one. I still have insurance and wear a seatbelt in the RARE and UNLIKELY case that it does happen. I would sincerly hope that no one, citizen, police or even military would ever be placed into a position in which they would need to use or threaten deadly force. In a perfect world, this would be the case. Unfortunately, it’s far from a perfect world. Thanks again for the civility and the relevant questions. Best Egg ---
**Author:** ![picker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/picker/32/13969_2.png) [@picker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/picker)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-know-me-and-i-have-a-gun/325740/14 "2005-10-11T17:19:24Z")
When guns are banned, only bands will have guns. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-know-me-and-i-have-a-gun/325740/15 "2005-10-11T17:55:56Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > I’m not a big or fearsome-looking gent, yet in 52 years I’ve never been in a situation where having a handgun handy would have been of any use whatever. I AM a big and fearsome-looking gent, and in 25 years I’ve encountered a few situations where carrying a handgun would have made my life or the lives of others significantly easier. Fortunately for ME I happened to be carrying a sword (long story) the time the idiot with the switchblade tried to mug me, and fortunately for the two people getting ganged up on in outside-of-bar fights and the one lady screaming for help while being cornered in an alcove, I’m not opposed to wading into a fight (or rape) with the intention of stopping it (I was quite the insomniac in college, and spent many nights wandering around my campus) The point of all this is not to argue for or against gun control, but rather to long-windedly say “data is not the plural of anecdote.” ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-know-me-and-i-have-a-gun/325740/16 "2005-10-11T18:25:38Z")
Hello, **Eggman**. I favor banning private ownership of all guns except hunting rifles and certain antiques. My reasoning for this is quite simple. In 1997 the British banned the private ownership of all guns. Immediately rates of every type of crime dropped dramatically in Britain. If you do not believe me, click [here](http://www.crimestatistics.org.uk/output/Page54.asp) and [here](http://www.crimestatistics.org.uk/output/Page63.asp). These data come directly from the home office. There is no more rigorous or thorough study of British crime rates available, so any data which contradict these must be wrong. On your website, you state that crime went up after the British banned private ownership of guns. Your statement is an outright, blatant lie. Unless you provide a logical response to this post, I will assume that you have admitted that the British gun ban was a successful approach to fighting crime, and thus that gun control is a good idea. Good day. ---
**Author:** ![TheEggman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/fbc32d/32.png) [@TheEggman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheEggman)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-know-me-and-i-have-a-gun/325740/17 "2005-10-11T18:40:44Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > … Fortunately for ME I happened to be carrying a sword (long story) the time the idiot with the switchblade tried to mug me … Reminds me of my one of my favorite ‘Aussies’ - Mr Dundee! (Knife? That’s not a knife – THIS is a knife!) Whatever the story, I’d have loved to see the expression on their faces when you whipped it out! Also glad you made it out safely. Best E ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-know-me-and-i-have-a-gun/325740/18 "2005-10-11T18:49:39Z")
Since it appears that you aren’t going to answer my question about British crime rates, let’s do Australia for good measure. In the United States, out of every 100,000 people, roughly 2,500 were victims of violent crime in a given year, according to [this](http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2002-09-09-crime_x.htm). In Australia, that number was 942 victims of violent crime out of 100,000 during one year, according to [this](http://www.justice.govt.nz/pubs/reports/2002/intl-comparisons-crime/section-6.html). So what say you? Whose approach to dealing with violent crime is better, Australia or the United States? ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-know-me-and-i-have-a-gun/325740/19 "2005-10-11T19:26:15Z")
> [@ITR champion](#): > > In 1997 the British banned the private ownership of all guns. Immediately rates of every type of crime dropped dramatically in Britain. If you do not believe me, click [here](http://www.crimestatistics.org.uk/output/Page54.asp) and [here](http://www.crimestatistics.org.uk/output/Page63.asp). These data come directly from the home office. There is no more rigorous or thorough study of British crime rates available, so any data which contradict these must be wrong. So what do you call it when the Home Office contradicts itself? > [@ITR champion](#): > > On your website, you state that crime went up after the British banned private ownership of guns. Your statement is an outright, blatant lie. Well, you’re at least right about one thing: _someone_ in this debate is lying. [Gun crime figures show fresh rise](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3761626.stm) [Gun crime trebles as weapons and drugs flood British cities](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2002/02/24/nguns24.xml&sSheet=/portal/2002/02/24/por_right.html) [Crime In England: The Price Of Gun Control](http://www.nraila.org/CurrentLegislation/Read.aspx?ID=1117) [Gun legislation ‘faces overhaul’](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3707071.stm) > [@](#): > > Home Office figures showed that firearm offences in England and Wales have risen from 13,874 in 1998-99 to 24,070 in 2002-03. > The number of recorded crimes involving imitation weapons has tripled from 566 to 1,815 during that period. [Q and A: Fighting gun crime](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3112818.stm) > [@](#): > > Gun crime has increased in recent years, including a near doubling of handgun offences since 1996, the year of the Dunblane massacre. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-know-me-and-i-have-a-gun/325740/20 "2005-10-11T19:38:09Z")
> [@TheEggman](#): > > Thank you for the civil, constructive reply! > (Didn’t mean to start a malestrom) > > I’m NOT afraid of you, or any of the other law-abiding citizens out there (or in here). YOU are not the problem. I’m afraid of the gangs and criminals with guns, knives and clubs. Actually, good sir, I believe that statistically, you’re far more likely to be attacked, assaulted or raped by someone you know. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-know-me-and-i-have-a-gun/325740.md?page=2)