# You don't like it, you be the Brownie leader! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 12, 2011, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-like-it-you-be-the-brownie-leader/578148 "2011-04-12T21:53:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2011, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-like-it-you-be-the-brownie-leader/578148/221 "2011-04-19T15:38:21Z")
> [@](#): > > Let them play dress up one time. Kids play dress up all the time, they don’t need to go to GG’s for that, surely. And spending a day shopping for toys, fussing over hair and nails, or building bears isn’t exactly playing dress up. Why do you care if people find this off putting? To each their own, right? I’m probably in the tiny minority, so what’s it matter? ---
**Author:** ![Beadalin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@Beadalin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beadalin)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2011, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-like-it-you-be-the-brownie-leader/578148/223 "2011-04-19T15:51:03Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Why do you care if people find this off putting? To each their own, right? I’m probably in the tiny minority, so what’s it matter? It bothers me because it seems as if you are willfully misunderstanding the scale and scope of this one activity. You seem to be inflating its importance so that the fact that the girls chose something that is pure fun as a reward somehow casts a shadow over every single other thing that troop might do for the year. This outing will use a tiny percentage of the group’s overall funding. This outing will use a far tinier percentage of the troops time together. I’m getting mad reading all the objections to it because it’s as if this one outing eclipses and diminishes all of the other things the girls do at all of their other meetings and outings. Like buying cookies from the girls will only enable this kind of frivolous activity, and that’s simply not true. Buying cookies enables everything the girls do throughout the year, PLUS this one silly thing that they chose for themselves. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2011, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-like-it-you-be-the-brownie-leader/578148/224 "2011-04-19T16:14:10Z")
I don’t quite see how the fact that “it’s only one activity” supported by donated funds makes it less antithetical to the stated values of the Girl Scouts or the intent of people who buy the overpriced cookies to help the girls develop and build character. When you accept donated moneys (in the form of overpriced cookies where the added value goes back to the troops), you have to be extra careful with the appearance of what that money is funding. Surely you all can see why it would be offensive to people or cause strong reactions. “Just once” is too many when it comes to using the money to buy yourself toys at Toys 'R Us. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2011, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-like-it-you-be-the-brownie-leader/578148/225 "2011-04-19T16:51:18Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > I have to admit though, the title, “You don’t like it, you be the Brownie leader!”, sounds like a six year old on the playground taking their ball and going home in a snit. Yes, I get what you meant, but it just sounds somewhat petulant and immature, is all. Still, it was an interesting conversation, notwithstanding. One of the challenges of getting involved as a leader of any children’s group is that it’s usually the same person or group of people doing the planning and execution. Planning and executing a single activity can be difficult at best, but planning a year’s worth, as a troop leader does, is an even bigger challenge. The girls have a certain amount of input and make some decisions about what they want to do, but it’s the leader(s) who has to make it happen. Leading a group can be a lot of fun, but parents who stand over your shoulder and kibitz while you’re trying to get the planning and such done will make you crazy. Parents who stand over your shoulder and kibitz who also refuse to get involved with the group in any meaningful way will make you positively homicidal. This is the part of the leader’s role that sucks deep-fried monkey balls. So if the OP wants to be petulant, she’s got good reason to be that way. ---
**Author:** ![lorene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/65b543/32.png) [@lorene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lorene)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2011, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-like-it-you-be-the-brownie-leader/578148/226 "2011-04-19T17:58:15Z")
This thread has made me very, very glad my daughter is not interested in joining the Girl Scouts. And not because of the possibility that her troop might vote to go to a Spangly Hair Day. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2011, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-like-it-you-be-the-brownie-leader/578148/227 "2011-04-19T18:08:40Z")
To elbows: The thread title is meant to reflect the annoyance with the attitude of the parents who don’t participate and then complain in a juvenile fashion after the fact. The way it’s worded doesn’t bother me a bit. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2011, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-like-it-you-be-the-brownie-leader/578148/228 "2011-04-19T20:54:32Z")
> [@Bad\_News\_Baboon](#): > > My daughter thought scouting would be fun - I’ve emailed the organization twice via their website to ask how to join. I also asked how one starts a troop seeing as her school has none. It’s been over 4 weeks and not a response. Pick up the phone and call your local council. Ask to speak to the “membership specialist” for your school or city. But yeah, being an organization with a small paid staff and a bunch of volunteers who are usually overworked Moms, working with Scouts can be really challenging. It took me two phone calls and finally showing up at at event. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-like-it-you-be-the-brownie-leader/578148/229 "2011-04-20T00:35:30Z")
As a general rule of thumb, good non-profit organizations should spend less than 15% on overhead for raising the money. It looks like the math here where 60 cents out of $3.00 for something which is just for fun (and if this isn’t, the trip to Toys R Us would certainly be) is spending 20% on overhead for the treat for the kids, plus whatever the overhead is for the cookie company. It’s not particularly efficient. The numbers are worse though if people just donate cash for that troop, since then 60% of the donation would go to overhead. There is no problem with the girls going out and having fun in whatever way they want. However, if they are soliciting donations, and selling cookies is seen by many as that, that they should be upfront with the people and tell the potential customers that the money is going to go for a shopping trip, etc. and then let the customer make an informed decision. High school kids raise money for band trips all the time. When I was in a church youth group, we raised money for a week-long waterskiing trip every summer, and that wasn’t any less frivolous than spa day. People who came to our car washes and whatnot knew what the purpose of the money was for and had no problem giving based on the open disclosure of the purpose. Again, this isn’t anything to do with the girly nature. I’d feel the same if it were boy scouts and some other activity which wasn’t related to scouting. Let me know and I’ll make a decision. As it is, I’m not going to minutely question each troop what their plans are, so I’ll give my money instead to another cause. This also isn’t meant to be criticism of the volunteers here who are working with the troops. As I’ve spend a lot of time myself in volunteer work, I know how hard it can be. I think that it’s wonderful to have involved parents. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-like-it-you-be-the-brownie-leader/578148/230 "2011-04-20T00:47:37Z")
So, donating money that will be used for fun outings = OK. Donating money that you don’t really know where it goes = OK. Donating money that you formerly didn’t really know where it went, but turns out will be used for fun outings = totally not OK, will not donate in this case. That makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-like-it-you-be-the-brownie-leader/578148/231 "2011-04-20T01:04:34Z")
Donating money thinking it’s being used one way, finding out it’s being used another, not so okay. It’s not on the GG’s, it’s on the donors to understand/be informed about what it’s going for, and I think it’s been illuminated for people, in this thread. That’s a good thing. There is no shortage of good causes wanting funding, every individual has to decide for themselves if the cause appeals to them or not. Not everyone donates to Cancer causes, it doesn’t make it a less worthy cause, just, for some, not theirs. And yes, I think we all get that this is one event, please don’t say it again, we do get it. But if my favorite charity was doing mostly what I approve of, and another cause was doing everything I approved of I might choose the latter over the former, is all. It sounds like it’s a popular thing with the girls and parents involved and that’s all that really matters in the end, since they are the ones attending and paying. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-like-it-you-be-the-brownie-leader/578148/232 "2011-04-20T02:53:40Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > So, donating money that will be used for fun outings = OK. > > Donating money that you don’t really know where it goes = OK. > > Donating money that you formerly didn’t really know where it went, but turns out will be used for fun outings = totally not OK, will not donate in this case. > > That makes sense. Some kid wants a new toy. Do you give? Me, no. I don’t simply buy every child I know a toy. Some kid wants to participate in an activity which you believe is meaningful. Do you give? Me, usually yes. Something falls somewhere in between. Do you give? Me, it depends. I had assumed that boy and girl scouting was using money for activities such as summer camps where there is formal learning and other activities which teach things such as civic responsibilities. Evidently, in many cases this isn’t what happens so I will decline to give. The other factor is how far of separation there is between me and the recipient and the type of donation given. To use my water skiing example, if the kids in a group which I belonged to wanted to have a summer camp and go water skiing, I would probably pay for a car wash or make a token donation. If some kids I don’t know are doing it? No. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-like-it-you-be-the-brownie-leader/578148/233 "2011-04-20T03:23:14Z")
One thing that I think may have possibly been missed by some is that these are Brownies. Which are BABY Girl Scouts. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-like-it-you-be-the-brownie-leader/578148/234 "2011-04-20T03:27:20Z")
Well, I buy Girl Scout cookies because of the delicious crack cocaine that is lovingly baked into every batch, so this whole donation business is sort of irrelevant to me. I am just trying to understand where the rest of you guys are coming from, and frankly still failing somewhat. But it’s OK, I think ultimately the Scouts will survive this whole spa day brouhaha. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-like-it-you-be-the-brownie-leader/578148/235 "2011-04-20T06:20:49Z")
I buy girl scout cookies because it is clear that my career prospects would be damaged if I don’t buy them from the VP who has crowded out all other sellers in my workplace. It was rather worse when there were two VPs doing the same thing, but apparently one was crowded out by the other, by being rather more overt about this particular aspect of being a “team player”. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Nader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Darth\_Nader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Nader)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-like-it-you-be-the-brownie-leader/578148/236 "2011-04-20T06:55:53Z")
Well, as long as the girls know what’s going on. Probably a better life lesson, right? What a mess this is. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-like-it-you-be-the-brownie-leader/578148/237 "2011-04-20T08:27:00Z")
> [@Mighty\_Mouse](#): > > I buy girl scout cookies because it is clear that my career prospects would be damaged if I don’t buy them from the VP who has crowded out all other sellers in my workplace. It was rather worse when there were two VPs doing the same thing, but apparently one was crowded out by the other, by being rather more overt about this particular aspect of being a “team player”. That’s got to be a violation of something. I don’t buy GS cookies partly because I don’t like them, and partly because I don’t want to support GS (reasons of my own). I would not appreciate it if not buying them was going to hurt me at work. What’s the rule on corporate-forced charity donation/participation? ---
**Author:** ![lorene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/65b543/32.png) [@lorene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lorene)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-like-it-you-be-the-brownie-leader/578148/238 "2011-04-20T11:00:19Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > Well, I buy Girl Scout cookies because of the delicious crack cocaine that is lovingly baked into every batch, so this whole donation business is sort of irrelevant to me. I am just trying to understand where the rest of you guys are coming from, and frankly still failing somewhat. But it’s OK, I think ultimately the Scouts will survive this whole spa day brouhaha. This? This here is why so many posters, including myself, think you are full of Teh Awesome. ---
**Author:** ![rhubarbarin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eb9ed0/32.png) [@rhubarbarin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rhubarbarin)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-like-it-you-be-the-brownie-leader/578148/239 "2011-04-20T11:46:33Z")
I can’t believe so many people think Girl Scout cookies are sold to donate the money to charity or to support the larger organization of Girl Scouts in a way that every cookie buyer would personally approve of. I was in Girl Scouts for 7 or 8 years, starting 17 years ago. It was basically the same deal then. I would really have liked if we had been allowed to vote on what we did for our ‘fun day’ where we got some sort of reward for months selling cookies, often outdoors in the cold and snow (since this was South Dakota), but our troop leaders mostly decided it for us. ---
**Author:** ![lorene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/65b543/32.png) [@lorene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lorene)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-like-it-you-be-the-brownie-leader/578148/240 "2011-04-20T13:04:33Z")
> [@Rilchiam](#): > > That’s got to be a violation of something. I don’t buy GS cookies partly because I don’t like them, and partly because I don’t want to support GS (reasons of my own). I would not appreciate it if not buying them was going to hurt me at work. What’s the rule on corporate-forced charity donation/participation? Yeah, we have a “no solicitation” policy at work. (Which of course applies to the employees but apparently not to the hookers who frequently solicit and have sex in the lobby restrooms). ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-like-it-you-be-the-brownie-leader/578148/241 "2011-04-20T14:01:41Z")
> [@](#): > > I can’t believe so many people think Girl Scout cookies are sold to donate the money to charity or to support the larger organization of Girl Scouts in a way that every cookie buyer would personally approve of. Um, nobody thinks this, and nobody said this. Just so you know. No one, any where in this thread mentioned anything about every cookie buyer should personally approve of every activity. Don’t know what thread you’re reading. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-like-it-you-be-the-brownie-leader/578148.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-like-it-you-be-the-brownie-leader/578148.md?page=13)