# You don't like it, you be the Brownie leader! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 12, 2011, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-like-it-you-be-the-brownie-leader/578148 "2011-04-12T21:53:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![ENugent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/4af34b/32.png) [@ENugent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ENugent)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-like-it-you-be-the-brownie-leader/578148/262 "2011-04-21T17:51:13Z")
Another issue that seems to be overlooked by some here is that the whole cookie sale itself is supposed to be a learning opportunity for the girls. The process of planning a sale, planning what to do with the proceeds, setting goals based on that plan, and figuring out how to meet the goals is a very important part of why Girl Scouts sell cookies. For some girls, it’s all about the individual incentives (and I haven’t heard anyone bitching about GSUSA spending money on a stuffed kangaroo for every girl who sells at least 150 boxes), but for others, it’s about the group goal. If the GSUSA donated a stuffed kangaroo to an orphanage somewhere at 150 boxes, instead of giving it to the seller, it would be more charitable, but it would be much less likely to get the girls to actually participate in the sale and gain the intangible benefits of doing so. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-like-it-you-be-the-brownie-leader/578148/263 "2011-04-21T19:25:35Z")
> [@ENugent](#): > > Another issue that seems to be overlooked by some here is that the whole cookie sale itself is supposed to be a learning opportunity for the girls. The process of planning a sale, planning what to do with the proceeds, setting goals based on that plan, and figuring out how to meet the goals is a very important part of why Girl Scouts sell cookies. For some girls, it’s all about the individual incentives (and I haven’t heard anyone bitching about GSUSA spending money on a stuffed kangaroo for every girl who sells at least 150 boxes), but for others, it’s about the group goal. If the GSUSA donated a stuffed kangaroo to an orphanage somewhere at 150 boxes, instead of giving it to the seller, it would be more charitable, but it would be much less likely to get the girls to actually participate in the sale and gain the intangible benefits of doing so. Well, I would liken the stuffed kangaroo to a badge earned. The thing I think is being overlooked when people say “Hey, these kids deserve a little reward” - the funding of GG is the reward. They all joined because ostensibly they enjoy being in Brownies and that requires money. If high school kids are having a car wash to raise money for the prom, they wouldn’t take a little off the top as a “reward” for their hard work. ---
**Author:** ![saje](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saje/32/3631_2.png) [@saje](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saje)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-like-it-you-be-the-brownie-leader/578148/264 "2011-04-21T19:38:27Z")
> [@rhubarbarin](#): > > I actually hated being in Girl Scouts. Camp was the only redeeming part (we had a Boy Scout troop leader who used to come to ours and teach us how to tie knots etc), but even that wasn’t hardcore enough. I had to spend time with a bunch of rather girly girls (my whole troop) who thought I was gross and acted too much like a boy, and make crafts and sell cookies and act like I liked people _shudder_ while Boy Scouts got to USE KNIVES and BUILD FIRE and camp for real and run around in the woods hitting each other with sticks. These days there is a type of fellowship program that allows girls to participate in Boy Scouts but either it didn’t exist in my day or I never heard of it. > > I would have wanted to crawl under a rock if we ever had to do a ‘spa day’. But most girls that age are into that stuff. That was my experience to a T! ---
**Author:** ![filling\_pages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b9bd4f/32.png) [@filling\_pages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filling_pages)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-like-it-you-be-the-brownie-leader/578148/265 "2011-04-21T20:33:59Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Well, I would liken the stuffed kangaroo to a badge earned. > > The thing I think is being overlooked when people say “Hey, these kids deserve a little reward” - the funding of GG is the reward. They all joined because ostensibly they enjoy being in Brownies and that requires money. If high school kids are having a car wash to raise money for the prom, they wouldn’t take a little off the top as a “reward” for their hard work. Yes, but what they enjoy about being in Girl Scouts may well be that they do things like a dress up/spa day as well as going camping. Both outdoorsy stuff and social stuff are part of being in Girl Scouts. My sister’s troop went to a New Kids on the Block concert. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-like-it-you-be-the-brownie-leader/578148/266 "2011-04-22T01:22:04Z")
> [@filling\_pages](#): > > Yes, but what they enjoy about being in Girl Scouts may well be that they do things like a dress up/spa day as well as going camping. Both outdoorsy stuff and social stuff are part of being in Girl Scouts. > > My sister’s troop went to a New Kids on the Block concert. OK, so reward time in some Brownie troops falls egregiously outside of the mission statement. Now I know. Though reading **rhubarbarin** and **saje** ’s posts, maybe a spa day _would_ have been a courage building exercise. lol. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-like-it-you-be-the-brownie-leader/578148/267 "2011-04-22T02:13:50Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > I hate to give in to her bullying > > > [@](#): > > > > So if you don’t like it, BITCH, you can volunteer to be the leader. Otherwise, STFU. > > Okay now, that’s an interesting contrast, even though I recognize you were just blowing off steam. :dubious: Really? It’s new to you someone can hate a bully? ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-like-it-you-be-the-brownie-leader/578148/268 "2011-04-22T02:49:22Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > OK, so reward time in some Brownie troops falls egregiously outside of the mission statement. Now I know. Though reading **rhubarbarin** and **saje** ’s posts, maybe a spa day _would_ have been a courage building exercise. lol. Why would a NKOTB concert fall outside the mission statement? We are encouraged to take our kids to concerts and plays. Granted, a NKOTB concert would be a special kind of hell for most leaders - and I can’t imagine being able to afford a concert with my Scouts (maybe after several years of cookie money). Music and theatre are as important to most troops as camping. ---
**Author:** ![Ostrya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/35a633/32.png) [@Ostrya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ostrya)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-like-it-you-be-the-brownie-leader/578148/269 "2011-04-22T03:04:43Z")
“New Kids On The Block” falls under the category of “concert and theater” for the Girl Scouts? Good grief. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-like-it-you-be-the-brownie-leader/578148/270 "2011-04-22T03:57:35Z")
> [@the lone cashew](#): > > “New Kids On The Block” falls under the category of “concert and theater” for the Girl Scouts? > Good grief. :rolleyes: I’m sorry, are you under the impression that music has to be classical to be of value? That’s news to me. (as if, say, Pachelbel wasn’t the NKOTB of the 1700s anyway.) Would it also be considered poor form to see a production of Rent rather than yet another Shakespeare play? ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-like-it-you-be-the-brownie-leader/578148/271 "2011-04-22T04:14:50Z")
> [@ENugent](#): > > For some girls, it’s all about the individual incentives (and I haven’t heard anyone bitching about GSUSA spending money on a stuffed kangaroo for every girl who sells at least 150 boxes), but for others, it’s about the group goal. Why would someone bitch about stuffed kangaroos? That’s an apples and oranges comparison. I don’t know what the stuffed animals are like, but at a presumed cost to GSUSA of a couple of bucks each for girls who sell 150 dollars, that’s a trivial percentage. Going back to charities and fund raising, it is assumed that organizations need to spend money to raise money. However, if too much of the funds are being used to raise money, then there is an issue. > [@CarnalK](#): > > The thing I think is being overlooked when people say “Hey, these kids deserve a little reward” - the funding of GG is the reward. They all joined because ostensibly they enjoy being in Brownies and that requires money. It doesn’t seem to be the case for many people that being in Browies or scouting is fun in and of itself. I think the answer would be to either change the system, discontinue it or to downscale it to just the ones who do enjoy it, but I don’t think bribing girls (which I’m specifically thinking of trips to Toy R Us, and which spa days may or may not be) is the right answer, especially if the donors are not being informed of how their donations will be used. > [@CarnalK](#): > > OK, so reward time in some Brownie troops falls egregiously outside of the mission statement. Now I know. I think this is a reasonable statement. I’ve talked to a number of friends and family member about this, and the conclusion seems to be that where scouting used to have stood for something on a higher level than high school kids raising money for proms, it sounds like, for some troops, that this may not be the case. If so, then for me it makes a difference between giving money to organization who I don’t personally know the recipients (like the case for a couple of my favorite causes, ALS and Doctors Without Borders) and high school prom car washes, which I would do for people I personally know, but not others. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-like-it-you-be-the-brownie-leader/578148/272 "2011-04-22T15:21:58Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > I’m sorry, are you under the impression that music has to be classical to be of value? That’s news to me. (as if, say, Pachelbel wasn’t the NKOTB of the 1700s anyway.) > > Would it also be considered poor form to see a production of Rent rather than yet another Shakespeare play? Probably inappropriate for Brownies…but that has more to do with the content of Rent than some theatre being more “worthy.” ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-like-it-you-be-the-brownie-leader/578148/273 "2011-04-22T15:45:43Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > Probably inappropriate for Brownies…but that has more to do with the content of Rent than some theatre being more “worthy.” Oh, no doubt–specific post I responded to had moved the discussion to “Girl Scouts”. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-like-it-you-be-the-brownie-leader/578148/274 "2011-04-22T16:02:32Z")
> [@TokyoPlayer](#): > > It doesn’t seem to be the case for many people that being in Browies or scouting is fun in and of itself. What are they doing it for, then? ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-like-it-you-be-the-brownie-leader/578148/275 "2011-04-22T16:19:42Z")
> [@spark240](#): > > What are they doing it for, then? Because their parents want a babysitter for the night and send their children if they like it or not. These are likely the same parents that refuse to get involved in any meaningful way and then bitch that they don’t like the activities planned. Just because your child is in Girl Guides doesn’t mean you’re a good parent. ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-like-it-you-be-the-brownie-leader/578148/276 "2011-04-22T16:25:46Z")
Just as an aside, here’s a link to one of the badges for Canada’s Girl Guide program: [http://ggcgirls.girlguides.ca/ggcgirls/all\_about\_me/badges/guides/being\_healthy/feeling\_good.gif](http://ggcgirls.girlguides.ca/ggcgirls/all_about_me/badges/guides/being_healthy/feeling_good.gif) Please note this part: > [@](#): > > 1. Plan a spa night together with your patrol. Decide on activities and games that might be a fun way to forget about stress. So, apparently going to a spa can actually partially earn a merit badge, at least in Canada. I suppose if any of the Canadian parents bitching about the spa day in this thread had carefully reviewed the Girl Guide literature before sending their children off, they would know that. ETA - actually here’s another one: [http://ggcgirls.girlguides.ca/ggcgirls/all\_about\_me/badges/guides/personal\_growth/becoming-a-teen.gif](http://ggcgirls.girlguides.ca/ggcgirls/all_about_me/badges/guides/personal_growth/becoming-a-teen.gif) > [@](#): > > Hold a teen evening to experiment with hair, makeup and clothes. Ask a skin care expert, hairdresser or beautician to attend your meeting. ---
**Author:** ![Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maggie_the_Ocelot)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-like-it-you-be-the-brownie-leader/578148/277 "2011-04-22T16:37:45Z")
Yeah, but what age levels are those for? The second one says Teens…I wouldn’t be crazy about a Spa Day for an older girl, but IMO the whole “spa day” concept just isn’t appropriate for little girls who are still supposed to be acting like kids, not like junior adults. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-like-it-you-be-the-brownie-leader/578148/278 "2011-04-22T17:23:01Z")
> [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](#): > > Yeah, but what age levels are those for? The second one says Teens…I wouldn’t be crazy about a Spa Day for an older girl, but IMO the whole “spa day” concept just isn’t appropriate for little girls who are still supposed to be acting like kids, not like junior adults. From the text of the second badge: “Learn about your body and the changes that can take place physically between the ages of 9 and 11.” Presumably it’s meant for late pre-teens, therefore. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-like-it-you-be-the-brownie-leader/578148/279 "2011-04-22T18:16:45Z")
> [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](#): > > Yeah, but what age levels are those for? The second one says Teens…I wouldn’t be crazy about a Spa Day for an older girl, but IMO the whole “spa day” concept just isn’t appropriate for little girls who are still supposed to be acting like kids, not like junior adults. There are similar badges in the American Junior handbook (that is being rewritten right now and a new version will come out in September or October). The Junior handbook is for 4th and 5th graders. I can’t remember if there are Brownie Try Its with similar activities. I think that there are. ---
**Author:** ![filling\_pages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b9bd4f/32.png) [@filling\_pages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filling_pages)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-like-it-you-be-the-brownie-leader/578148/280 "2011-04-22T18:30:55Z")
> [@TokyoPlayer](#): > > It doesn’t seem to be the case for many people that being in Browies or scouting is fun in and of itself. I think the answer would be to either change the system, discontinue it or to downscale it to just the ones who do enjoy it, but I don’t think bribing girls (which I’m specifically thinking of trips to Toy R Us, and which spa days may or may not be) is the right answer, especially if the donors are not being informed of how their donations will be used. I think what some of you are missing is that camping, spa day-type events, concerts, marching in Veterans Day parades, making crafts to give their moms, selling cookies, cleaning up a riverbank, going out to a fun dinner, and so on are all part of scouting. Different girls like different events more than others. Different troops have different focuses depending on ability, funding, and interest, but all that is still part of scouting. These are features, not bugs. What is it that you think “being in Brownies” is supposed to be confined to? My grandmothers were scouts. My mom was a scout. My sisters were all scouts. Scouting has always involved social/frivolous/playtime events as well as civic/outdoor skill-building activities - my Granny’s troop organized boy scout/girl scout mixer dances every year. My mom ate her first spaghetti dinner thanks to scouts. It’s all part of the package. ---
**Author:** ![Flutterby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Flutterby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flutterby)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-like-it-you-be-the-brownie-leader/578148/281 "2011-04-22T21:39:58Z")
> [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](#): > > Yeah, but what age levels are those for? The second one says Teens…I wouldn’t be crazy about a Spa Day for an older girl, but IMO the whole “spa day” concept just isn’t appropriate for little girls who are still supposed to be acting like kids, not like junior adults. They are Girl Guide badges, so they are for ages 9-11. Brownies is the age below that.. and wow, they HAVE changed the badges! There wasn’t a ‘becoming a teen’ badge or ‘feeling good’ badge when I was in (as a girl and a leader)! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-like-it-you-be-the-brownie-leader/578148.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-like-it-you-be-the-brownie-leader/578148.md?page=15)