# You don't want to go out in the rain; someone says: "You won't melt." **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 21, 2006, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-want-to-go-out-in-the-rain-someone-says-you-wont-melt/365465 "2006-07-21T12:36:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2006, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-want-to-go-out-in-the-rain-someone-says-you-wont-melt/365465/21 "2006-07-21T18:23:56Z")
I don’t know how to look it up, but I think you’ll find that “melt” meaning _dissolve_ goes back centuries. Likewise, I imagine that saying “You won’t melt” to someone reluctant to go out in the rain was well established long before The Wizard of Oz came along. Assuming that’s correct, I would say the the witch’s “I’m melting” line in the movie is more aligned with the decline/end of melt=dissolve in common usage, not the beginning of it. When I first saw _Wizard_ as a kid, I didn’t understand why she was “melting” - there wasn’t any heat involved. I had never heard melt used that way. Nowadays, and throughout my 50+ years, common usage seems to be dissolve=dissolve, and melt=liquefy with heat - except for the lingering use brought up in the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2006, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-want-to-go-out-in-the-rain-someone-says-you-wont-melt/365465/22 "2006-07-21T19:32:03Z")
[QUOTE=CalMeacham] They shoulda galvanized him. [/QUOTE] Was he Jewish? ---
**Author:** ![Number](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/number/32/242_2.png) [@Number](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Number)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2006, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-want-to-go-out-in-the-rain-someone-says-you-wont-melt/365465/23 "2006-07-21T22:23:34Z")
[QUOTE=AHunter3] My response to them: “Did you see _Alien Nation_?” I don’t do rain. [/QUOTE] Does it rain salt water where you live? ---
**Author:** ![Carnacki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b5e925/32.png) [@Carnacki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carnacki)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2006, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-want-to-go-out-in-the-rain-someone-says-you-wont-melt/365465/24 "2006-07-21T23:31:02Z")
[QUOTE=Excalibre] Yeah, I read that . . . I never did see the point of the story. [/QUOTE] The story is _Rain, Rain, Go Away_, and the neighbors are the Sakkaros. For some reason I read it as being moralistic; as in, “don’t judge people too harshly for their eccentricities, they may have a damn good reason for doing what they do”. Childish I guess, but it seemed to be written for a young audience. The last line of the bystanders before the Sakkaros melt is “Honestly, you would think they were made of sugar and afraid they would melt”. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2006, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-want-to-go-out-in-the-rain-someone-says-you-wont-melt/365465/25 "2006-07-22T00:26:04Z")
[QUOTE=Cervaise] Was he Jewish? [/QUOTE] He said _Galvanize_, not _Circumsize_ :wally ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2006, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-want-to-go-out-in-the-rain-someone-says-you-wont-melt/365465/26 "2006-07-22T03:41:52Z")
Is there any connection to the medaevil witch hunts (1100-1700) where accused ‘witches’ were tied to a dunking stool and submerged in flowing water? ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2006, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-want-to-go-out-in-the-rain-someone-says-you-wont-melt/365465/27 "2006-07-22T04:04:04Z")
[QUOTE=t-bonham@scc.net] Is there any connection to the medaevil witch hunts (1100-1700) where accused ‘witches’ were tied to a dunking stool and submerged in flowing water? [/QUOTE] The dunking stool was punishment for a gossip, not a witch. For witches, you threw 'em in the water, as a test. If they sank, then they weren’t witches. However, if they floated, they were witches and were then burned at stake. So you can see how being accused of witchcraft could ruin your life. Better to gossip. ---
**Author:** ![Punoqllads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@Punoqllads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punoqllads)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2006, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-want-to-go-out-in-the-rain-someone-says-you-wont-melt/365465/28 "2006-07-22T04:42:25Z")
[QUOTE=KidScruffy] The story is _Rain, Rain, Go Away_, and the neighbors are the Sakkaros. For some reason I read it as being moralistic; as in, “don’t judge people too harshly for their eccentricities, they may have a damn good reason for doing what they do”. Childish I guess, but it seemed to be written for a young audience. [/QUOTE] Are you sure it’s not Sakharov? Sakharov would often be a Russian surname of a sugar merchant. Its literal meaning is, “of sugar”. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2006, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-want-to-go-out-in-the-rain-someone-says-you-wont-melt/365465/29 "2006-07-22T04:51:20Z")
[QUOTE=Punoqllads] Are you sure it’s not Sakharov? [/QUOTE] You know, thinking back, I believe that KidScruffy is right, it was Sakkaro and not Sakharov. I don’t know if I still have the collection of stories, but I’ll search for it. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2006, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-want-to-go-out-in-the-rain-someone-says-you-wont-melt/365465/30 "2006-07-22T07:20:09Z")
[QUOTE=Hilarity N. Suze] The dunking stool was punishment for a gossip, not a witch. [/QUOTE] No, there are many records showing it was used on ‘witches’. (Though it (or a similar device) was also sometimes used on other types of ‘uppity women’, such as gossips, scolds & prostitutes.) From the BBC: [http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A4708](http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A4708) > [@](#): > > Dunking - The witch would be tied to a contraption known as a dunking stool, which would then be lowered into a fast flowing river, lake or large water container (usually blessed), to see if they would float. If able to float, then the accused was possessed with the ‘Spirit of Satan’ and ergo, a witch. Questions of whether clothing had filled with air and formed a convenient buoyancy aid were usually dismissed out of hand. If, however, the ‘witch’ drowned or died of hypothermia, they had obviously not been under Satan’s protective watch, and were therefore innocent. Unfortunately for the person concerned, they were also dead, so it all ceased to be of relevance. From Wikipedia: [Ducking stool - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witch_dunking) > [@](#): > > Dunking is a form torture and punishment that was applied to scolds and supposed witches. > > In a trial by ordeal, supposed witches were immersed into a vat of water or pond, and taken out after some time, when the victim had the ability to confess. If she confessed, she was killed. If she did not confess, she was submerged again. This process usually was repeated until the victim drowned or gave up and let herself be executed in another way (hanging or, rarely, burning). From [http://www.stronghold-knights.com/site/article222.html](http://www.stronghold-knights.com/site/article222.html) > [@](#): > > The “dunking stool”, also known as a “ducking stool” or “diving chair”, was used to identify witches and also serve as punishment for minor offenders, prostitutes and scolds. The dunking could last for an entire day or just a few seconds. Googling will find lots more cites. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2006, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-want-to-go-out-in-the-rain-someone-says-you-wont-melt/365465/31 "2006-07-22T07:36:54Z")
[QUOTE=KidScruffy] The story is _Rain, Rain, Go Away_, and the neighbors are the Sakkaros. For some reason I read it as being moralistic; as in, “don’t judge people too harshly for their eccentricities, they may have a damn good reason for doing what they do”. Childish I guess, but it seemed to be written for a young audience. The last line of the bystanders before the Sakkaros melt is “Honestly, you would think they were made of sugar and afraid they would melt”. [/QUOTE] I didn’t remember the last line word for word, but the general idea of it, and the descriptions of how they would seem to look at the sky with terror whenever a cloud passed by, have stuck with me. I think we read it sometime in elementary school. I did sort of enjoy the story; I guess I just always sort of thought there was some point I was missing. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2006, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-want-to-go-out-in-the-rain-someone-says-you-wont-melt/365465/32 "2006-07-22T13:21:58Z")
On Googling, it actually IS by Asimov. Which kind of surprised me because it very much sounds like a Bradbury story… ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2006, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-want-to-go-out-in-the-rain-someone-says-you-wont-melt/365465/33 "2006-07-22T17:18:37Z")
[QUOTE=KidScruffy] For some reason I read it as being moralistic; as in, “don’t judge people too harshly for their eccentricities, they may have a damn good reason for doing what they do”. [/QUOTE] The story was a political allegory. You will notice that the last name of the alien neighbors, “Sakkaro”, was similar (to Western ears) to a Japanese name. The Sakkaros represented Japanese immigrants to the USA who were doing their best to fit in to American society, but constantly living under the cloud of fear that their host country would one day see fit to persecute them. Finally they are destroyed by a dangerous element falling from the sky (representing the atomic bombs falling on Hiroshima and Nagasaki). The family, horrified at the painful death of their neighbours, represents the loss of innocence of post-World War II America shocked that their government would be capable of unleashing such death and destruction upon fellow living creatures. ---
**Author:** ![picunurse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7bcc69/32.png) [@picunurse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/picunurse)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2006, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-want-to-go-out-in-the-rain-someone-says-you-wont-melt/365465/34 "2006-07-22T18:01:32Z")
[QUOTE=aldiboronti] There are a few references to the date of the movie. It shouldn’t be forgotten that the book The Wizard of Oz by Frank Baum was published in 1900. Unless the melting is original to the film, the date of the movie has no real significance. [/QUOTE] She melted in the book, just as she did in the movie. My great grandmother used to tell me I wouldn’t melt in the rain, and I know she never saw the movie, or read the book. (She couldn’t read, and was proud to say she’d never set foot in a movie theater. She died before we got a TV.) ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2006, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-want-to-go-out-in-the-rain-someone-says-you-wont-melt/365465/35 "2006-07-22T19:28:40Z")
[QUOTE=CalMeacham] You know, it’s always bothered me that the _Tin_ Woodsman would have a problem with _rust_. They shoulda galvanized him. [/QUOTE] Often the term “tin” _was_ used for galvanized steel, as in the so-called tin can. If the tin coating wears away, as it well might in moveable joints, rust can grab hold. I’ve always though this was what the “Tin Man” was supposed to be made of, not literally tin. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2006, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-want-to-go-out-in-the-rain-someone-says-you-wont-melt/365465/36 "2006-07-22T19:42:36Z")
In Baum’s original book, the character carried a hatchet and his entire body was heated and covered with a thin layer of lead and flux to prepare for work. He was the Tinned Woodsman. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Harmonious\_Discord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/74df32/32.png) [@Harmonious\_Discord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonious_Discord)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2006, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-want-to-go-out-in-the-rain-someone-says-you-wont-melt/365465/37 "2006-07-22T22:50:52Z")
You may want to look into the posibility of it referencing the use of sugar poured into clear sheets, and used as a glass substitute when glass was hard to come by. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2006, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-want-to-go-out-in-the-rain-someone-says-you-wont-melt/365465/38 "2006-07-22T23:54:04Z")
**Harmonious Discord** Do you have a cite for that? I find it unlikely. It would be a waste of food. It would attract insects, rats etc. I’ve heard of oiled paper being used instead of glass. It required little resources. it was easy to replace. ---
**Author:** ![Harmonious\_Discord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/74df32/32.png) [@Harmonious\_Discord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonious_Discord)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2006, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-want-to-go-out-in-the-rain-someone-says-you-wont-melt/365465/39 "2006-07-23T03:36:58Z")
I thought it was in a non-fiction book, that involved a European war. The people substituting sugar glass for real during a party, so they could keep up appearances. It didn’t last long, but the guests were gone before it liquefied. Any one wishing to search can. It was just a push into a direction that might produce something. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2006, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-want-to-go-out-in-the-rain-someone-says-you-wont-melt/365465/40 "2006-07-23T04:08:41Z")
As a very short term solution dictated by vanity, it sounds plausible. I could see somebody living in the Weimar depression wasting food in order to seem like they were still wealthy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dont-want-to-go-out-in-the-rain-someone-says-you-wont-melt/365465.md?page=1)