# You dumbasses ever heard of "historical re-enactment" or what? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 12, 2010, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dumbasses-ever-heard-of-historical-re-enactment-or-what/556845 "2010-10-12T01:04:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Kokopilau](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Kokopilau](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kokopilau)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2010, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dumbasses-ever-heard-of-historical-re-enactment-or-what/556845/41 "2010-10-12T13:28:36Z")
It’s not the WWII re-enactment that’s so troublesome. It’s not even the fact that it’s German military WWII re-enactment. Nor is it even the fact that it’s SS-unit German military re-enactment. No, it’s the [statements on their website](http://www.wiking.org/topics/history.htm) about how the members of this particular SS division (which, remember, participated in Einsatzgruppen murders of Jews and once counted Josef Mengele as a member) were “idealists” fighting for “their loved ones and a basic desire to be free,” how they were “valiant men [who] died defending their respective countries in the name of a better tomorrow,” and how they were “volunteers willing to lay down their lives to ensure a “New and Free Europe”, free of the threat of Communism.” THAT’S what’s so troublesome. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2010, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dumbasses-ever-heard-of-historical-re-enactment-or-what/556845/42 "2010-10-12T13:30:34Z")
> [@yojimbo](#): > > It may be totally innocent etc. etc. > However, if you are running for government in almost any western power and there are pictures of you dressed up as a Waffen fucking SS officer in a infamous regiment and you took part in re-enactments then don’t be surprised when your political enemies use it against you and you are tarred with the nazi brush. Even if you’re not running for government office [it can be pretty embarassing](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/4170083.stm). ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2010, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dumbasses-ever-heard-of-historical-re-enactment-or-what/556845/43 "2010-10-12T13:32:35Z")
I actually know a guy who is very much into war reenactments, mostly the Civil War, but others, too. He tells me that nearly 30,000 people participated in the last Gettysburg reenactment. 30,000. I gotta believe a good portion of those are wearing confederate uniforms, but I doubt most of them were admirers of confederate values. That some politician participated on the nazi side of a WWII reenactment does not bother me. However, he shows a lack of judgment if he thought \*nobody \*would make a big deal out of him wearing a nazi uniform. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2010, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dumbasses-ever-heard-of-historical-re-enactment-or-what/556845/44 "2010-10-12T13:33:12Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > Generally speaking, I don’t know of many reenactors who are seeking higher public office. I would say that putting on an SS uniform shows poor judgement from any politician, no matter what their ‘true intentions’ are. QFT. Any politician with a bit of commonsense (GOP or Dem) would realise that this would be taken as support for the Nazis by some people. It shows either stupidity or arrogance if he thought otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2010, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dumbasses-ever-heard-of-historical-re-enactment-or-what/556845/45 "2010-10-12T13:47:58Z")
I’ll add that Mr Iott is running in [an ultrasafe Democratic district](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohio%27s_9th_congressional_district): the incumbent Marcia Kaptur regularly gets about 75% of the vote, so it doesn’t really matter what this idiot does. ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2010, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dumbasses-ever-heard-of-historical-re-enactment-or-what/556845/46 "2010-10-12T13:50:38Z")
> [@Sigmagirl](#): > > I saw some guy re-enact Judas last Easter. Then we all went out for brunch. How is Judas a bad guy? Without him you don’t have your religion. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2010, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dumbasses-ever-heard-of-historical-re-enactment-or-what/556845/47 "2010-10-12T13:55:56Z")
> [@Kokopilau](#): > > It’s not the WWII re-enactment that’s so troublesome. It’s not even the fact that it’s German military WWII re-enactment. Nor is it even the fact that it’s SS-unit German military re-enactment. > > No, it’s the [statements on their website](http://www.wiking.org/topics/history.htm) about how the members of this particular SS division (which, remember, participated in Einsatzgruppen murders of Jews and once counted Josef Mengele as a member) were “idealists” fighting for “their loved ones and a basic desire to be free,” how they were “valiant men [who] died defending their respective countries in the name of a better tomorrow,” and how they were “volunteers willing to lay down their lives to ensure a “New and Free Europe”, free of the threat of Communism.” > > THAT’S what’s so troublesome. Which pretty much proves to me that they are more than wankers. They are a bunch of fucking Nazis, and to hell with them. I guess all the defenders of these evil fuckwits wouldn’t mind if my reenactment group decided to play at being mid-19th century Klansmen, now would you? After all, it’s just historical interest! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2010, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dumbasses-ever-heard-of-historical-re-enactment-or-what/556845/48 "2010-10-12T13:57:26Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > I actually know a guy who is very much into war reenactments, mostly the Civil War, but others, too. He tells me that nearly 30,000 people participated in the last Gettysburg reenactment. 30,000. I gotta believe a good portion of those are wearing confederate uniforms, but I doubt most of them were admirers of confederate values. That some politician participated on the nazi side of a WWII reenactment does not bother me. However, he shows a lack of judgment if he thought \*nobody \*would make a big deal out of him wearing a nazi uniform. I know a guy that is into reenactments, and he does it because he admires the confederate values, and wishes the South had won. So I guess we cancel out. Seems to me that if this guy really was a neo-nazi, this is the perfect cover. Besides, most of those people dressed up like Nazis are actually liberals trying to make conservatives look bad. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2010, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dumbasses-ever-heard-of-historical-re-enactment-or-what/556845/49 "2010-10-12T14:05:31Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > > [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > > > Generally speaking, I don’t know of many reenactors who are seeking higher public office. I would say that putting on an SS uniform shows poor judgement from any politician, no matter what their ‘true intentions’ are. > > QFT. What the hell is wrong with you? > [@](#): > > Any politician with a bit of commonsense (GOP or Dem) would realise that this would be taken as support for the Nazis by some people. It shows either stupidity or arrogance if he thought otherwise. Did I not just say that?! Or does ‘poor judgement’ mean something else in your world? ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2010, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dumbasses-ever-heard-of-historical-re-enactment-or-what/556845/50 "2010-10-12T14:07:38Z")
Miskatonic, QFT means Quoted For Truth ---
**Author:** ![footballisplayedwithyourfeet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9f8e36/32.png) [@footballisplayedwithyourfeet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/footballisplayedwithyourfeet)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2010, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dumbasses-ever-heard-of-historical-re-enactment-or-what/556845/51 "2010-10-12T14:14:41Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > > [@Giles](#): > > > > QFT. > > What the hell is wrong with you? > > > [@](#): > > > > Any politician with a bit of commonsense (GOP or Dem) would realise that this would be taken as support for the Nazis by some people. It shows either stupidity or arrogance if he thought otherwise. > > Did I not just say that?! Or does ‘poor judgement’ mean something else in your world? Easy there; QFT stands for ‘quoted for truth’ as far as I know… ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2010, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dumbasses-ever-heard-of-historical-re-enactment-or-what/556845/52 "2010-10-12T14:21:36Z")
> [@footballisplayedwithyourfeet](#): > > > [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > > > What the hell is wrong with you? > > > > Did I not just say that?! Or does ‘poor judgement’ mean something else in your world? > > Easy there; QFT stands for ‘quoted for truth’ as far as I know… Oh, oops. I thought it was Quit Fucking Trolling. :smack::smack: Sorry **Giles** ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2010, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dumbasses-ever-heard-of-historical-re-enactment-or-what/556845/53 "2010-10-12T14:35:13Z")
Scary what can happen before the first cup of coffee kicks in, isn’t it? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2010, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dumbasses-ever-heard-of-historical-re-enactment-or-what/556845/54 "2010-10-12T14:38:19Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I do medieval and colonial re-enactment (also SCA, but it’s not the same). There are guys here who do both sides of the Anglo-Boer War, for instance, and that’s cool. But if some guys wanted to portray a British concentration camp guard unit? We’d be all :dubious: & :rolleyes: . I mean, you don’t get people portraying, say, runaway slave finders or whatever in the ACW civilian groups… > > …ditto the guys who wanted to portray blood-sacrificing Norse pagans in our SCA group. Again, :dubious: & :rolleyes: . Yeah, it’s perfectly historical, but, dudes! This. I’ve no problem with American Civil War reenactors - but I doubt they’d be cool with a unit that wanted to reenact Andersonville, or the capture of free blacks on a raid in Union territory. Rightly or wrongly, we tend to view war as a more-or-less honorable thing, within limits. But dressing up as members of a military unit infamous for the atrocities it committed is more than a little messed up. It’s also my understanding that Nazi party membership was much, much higher in the SS than in the regular German military. A Wehrmacht reenactor can make a credible claim that he’s just taking on the role of a professional soldier who was ordered to fight in a very, very bad war. It’s much harder for an SS reenactor to distance himself from the ideology. > [@Kokopilau](#): > > It’s not the WWII re-enactment that’s so troublesome. It’s not even the fact that it’s German military WWII re-enactment. Nor is it even the fact that it’s SS-unit German military re-enactment. > > No, it’s the [statements on their website](http://www.wiking.org/topics/history.htm) about how the members of this particular SS division (which, remember, participated in Einsatzgruppen murders of Jews and once counted Josef Mengele as a member) were “idealists” fighting for “their loved ones and a basic desire to be free,” how they were “valiant men [who] died defending their respective countries in the name of a better tomorrow,” and how they were “volunteers willing to lay down their lives to ensure a “New and Free Europe”, free of the threat of Communism.” > > THAT’S what’s so troublesome. Yup, this too. There’s a point at which historical ignorance begins to look awfully deliberate. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2010, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dumbasses-ever-heard-of-historical-re-enactment-or-what/556845/55 "2010-10-12T14:45:55Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > Oh, oops. > > I thought it was Quit Fucking Trolling. :smack::smack: > > Sorry **Giles** Not a problem: i find some of these internet abbreviations obscure myself. ---
**Author:** ![dhkendall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a9adbd/32.png) [@dhkendall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dhkendall)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2010, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dumbasses-ever-heard-of-historical-re-enactment-or-what/556845/56 "2010-10-12T14:46:16Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > We’re going after Colonel Klink next :rolleyes: I’m assuming that everyone here knows that Werner Klemperer was Jewish who enjoyed making Klink as bumbling as possible, for obvious reasons. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2010, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dumbasses-ever-heard-of-historical-re-enactment-or-what/556845/57 "2010-10-12T14:46:42Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Scary what can happen before the first cup of coffee kicks in, isn’t it? 😃 Maybe I should start drinking the stuff… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2010, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dumbasses-ever-heard-of-historical-re-enactment-or-what/556845/58 "2010-10-12T14:48:46Z")
> [@dhkendall](#): > > > [@SteveG1](#): > > > > We’re going after Colonel Klink next :rolleyes: > > I’m assuming that everyone here knows that Werner Klemperer was Jewish who enjoyed making Klink as bumbling as possible, for obvious reasons. John Banner would have had even more reason. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2010, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dumbasses-ever-heard-of-historical-re-enactment-or-what/556845/59 "2010-10-12T14:49:53Z")
> [@dhkendall](#): > > > [@SteveG1](#): > > > > We’re going after Colonel Klink next :rolleyes: > > I’m assuming that everyone here knows that Werner Klemperer was Jewish who enjoyed making Klink as bumbling as possible, for obvious reasons. A bit like Conrad Veidt as Major Heinrich Strasser in _Casablana_ – he wasn’t a Jew, but he’d left Nazi Germany with his Jewish wife, to make a career playing Nazis in Hollywood. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2010, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dumbasses-ever-heard-of-historical-re-enactment-or-what/556845/60 "2010-10-12T14:58:50Z")
> [@emacknight](#): > > I know a guy that is into reenactments, and he does it because he admires the confederate values, and wishes the South had won. So I guess we cancel out. Well, at least we agree that not \*all \*reenactors share the values of those whom they portray in their reenactments. > [@](#): > > Besides, most of those people dressed up like Nazis are actually liberals trying to make conservatives look bad. True or not, I don’t see the relavence. [QUOTE=Mr. Miskatonic] I thought it was Quit Fucking Trolling. [/QUOTE] Maybe it does… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dumbasses-ever-heard-of-historical-re-enactment-or-what/556845.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dumbasses-ever-heard-of-historical-re-enactment-or-what/556845.md?page=4)