# You dumbasses ever heard of "historical re-enactment" or what? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 12, 2010, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dumbasses-ever-heard-of-historical-re-enactment-or-what/556845 "2010-10-12T01:04:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2010, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dumbasses-ever-heard-of-historical-re-enactment-or-what/556845/121 "2010-10-13T12:44:46Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > > [@NinjaChick](#): > > > > Want to dress up in pretty costumes? Congratulations, you’re a seven-year-old girl. Grow up, or at least wait until Halloween. Don’t do it on the weekends and claim it’s for “historical value”. > > :rolleyes: No, _you_ grow up, stupid bitch. Just because you can’t see the fun in dressing up, doesn’t mean other grownups can’t. You need to calm down, or we’ll take your blankie away. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2010, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dumbasses-ever-heard-of-historical-re-enactment-or-what/556845/122 "2010-10-13T13:44:13Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > > [@MrDibble](#): > > > > :rolleyes: No, _you_ grow up, stupid bitch. Just because you can’t see the fun in dressing up, doesn’t mean other grownups can’t. > > You need to calm down, or we’ll take your blankie away. Get bent. You’re not the one being called a “seven-year-old girl” by some dumb cow. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2010, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dumbasses-ever-heard-of-historical-re-enactment-or-what/556845/123 "2010-10-13T14:06:33Z")
Hey. If they if the Peter Pan costume fits … wear it. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2010, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dumbasses-ever-heard-of-historical-re-enactment-or-what/556845/124 "2010-10-13T14:06:39Z")
> [@Walker\_in\_Eternity](#): > > As can be seen from the resistance link, not all Germans suported Hitler and some tried to work against him. It’s worth pointing out that historian John Keegan has talked about how small, isolated, and ineffective German resistance organizations were, and how quickly and pitilessly they were wiped out when discovered or exposed, which was often immediately. I’m absolutely no fan of the Nazis, but to oppose them internally almost always meant to die quickly, in obscurity, without affecting any political change for the better. It was a personal choice, really, not any kind of movement one could “join.” ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2010, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dumbasses-ever-heard-of-historical-re-enactment-or-what/556845/125 "2010-10-13T14:07:37Z")
I do think it’s possible that the guy in question was just a moron who didn’t realize what the history of the specific unit he was reënacting was, never read the stuff on the web site, and so on; but even so that’s a bit too stupid to vote for. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2010, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dumbasses-ever-heard-of-historical-re-enactment-or-what/556845/126 "2010-10-13T14:12:52Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > > [@Zebra](#): > > > > How do you re-enact WWII in Ohio? Do you build a tank or ration sugar or plant a victory garden? > > IANAWWII Historian but I’m pretty sure there were no battles in Ohio. > > Heck, when was the last battle in Ohio? The French and Indian War? There were a few Civil War battles, e.g., [the Battle of Salineville](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Salineville), which was near the northern tip of West Virginia, and which was the end of [Morgan’s Raid](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morgan%27s_Raid) through Kentucky, southern Indiana and Ohio. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2010, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dumbasses-ever-heard-of-historical-re-enactment-or-what/556845/127 "2010-10-13T14:35:02Z")
> [@villa](#): > > Of course he then said: > > > [@](#): > > > > I don’t think we can sit here and judge that today. > > I can. I can judge anyone who volunteered to join the SS from occupied Europe quite easily. You needn’t bother, though - as mentioned, the democratic governments of the occupied states (well, the ones that didn’t end up behind the Iron Curtain) did a perfectly fine job of judging that these men were treasonous scum of the very lowest sort. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2010, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dumbasses-ever-heard-of-historical-re-enactment-or-what/556845/128 "2010-10-13T14:48:14Z")
> [@kidneyfailure](#): > > What would I think of a re-enactment of Andersonville or Auschwitz? Well, if it were an attempt to present a historically-accurate “living history” portrayal of what went on it that time period at those particular places I would support it. I might even take part in it (yes, perhaps even as a Nazi). I understand and respect this point, and I don’t think it’s wrong. I gotta say, though, that I would personally be very frightened of portraying a Nazi. I’m an advocate by nature - if you task me to write a memo outlining a litigation strategy, say, I won’t just draft a memo outlining a strategy I believe can win. By the time I’m done, most of the time I’ll genuinely believe I’m right. I won’t lose sight of the counter-arguments, of course - I’d be a poor lawyer if I did - but my conviction will be with that memo, even though it likely could have gone the other way had I been tasked to write the same memo for the other side. I’ll believe in it. If I’m playing a Nazi in a role that’s largely improvised, I can only do that if I get into the proper headspace - if I convince myself that what I’m doing is good and proper. And the thought of _believing_ in something like this is scary as hell. I can normally switch myself out of my belief in a litigation strategy, and I’m sure I could switch myself out of this - but still. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2010, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dumbasses-ever-heard-of-historical-re-enactment-or-what/556845/129 "2010-10-13T16:07:13Z")
> [@kidneyfailure](#): > > What would I think of a re-enactment of Andersonville or Auschwitz? Well, if it were an attempt to present a historically-accurate “living history” portrayal of what went on it that time period at those particular places I would support it. I might even take part in it (yes, perhaps even as a Nazi). If it were being recreated to espouse or spread Neo-Nazi ideology, to demonize the victims and glorify the war criminals, to support a particular racial ideology instead of historical accuracy, it and everyone involved in it could kiss my ass. There’s a definite middle ground there you are ignoring. My friends who were Sealed Knot members (and I went along to some of their re-enactments) certainly wanted to be as historically-accurate as possible, but the purpose behind the meetings, in the final analysis, was neither educational nor to spread Parlimentarian ideology. It was to have fun. And that’s fine - though I never saw the fun of being a pikeman and getting your ribs cracked, but I am sure they didn’t see the fun in a lot of what I did. I certainly enjoyed the liquid aspects of the meet. Now, I just don’t see the “fun” aspect so much of re-enacting packing Jews into gas chambers. I don’t have an issue with WWII re-enactment, even Wehrmacht re-enactors. But deliberately picking a unit that was made up of traitors, committed horrendous war crimes, and was part of an overall criminal organization that was central to the Final Solution is sending a message deliberately. And not a pleasant message at that. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2010, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dumbasses-ever-heard-of-historical-re-enactment-or-what/556845/130 "2010-10-13T17:37:22Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > > [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > > > Maybe I should start drinking the stuff… 😃 > > That explains why you’ve been asleep since April 2001. 😃 Do you really want someone with my username to _ **wake up?!** _ 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2010, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dumbasses-ever-heard-of-historical-re-enactment-or-what/556845/131 "2010-10-13T17:46:35Z")
Some folks have tried to point out that this fellow has played soldier on both sides. That certainly might be but as a reenactor it doesn’t really settle things much. Many folks go from unit to unit trying to find a ‘fit’. They may think a unit looks good from its history but when they join they find people they have a hard time socializing with. If you don’t get along with the people you are ‘fighting’ with you are not going to have a good time. Very few people formally leave units, they just start mustering with another. Most units have a good number of people on the rosters who haven’t shown up in years. The question is if this guy tried an American unit and it just didn’t ‘sit’ well with him and he went to the SS group. That seems a likely scenario and it points to him being more comfy with guys who whitewash the nazis. The other option is that this person is a ‘Uniform Collector’, which in reenacting is a special form of wanker. These are people who join multiple units, get all the equipment, and then show up in a random uniform at each event. They are not very common in America Civil War as the uniforms are a bot on the drab side - but for Revolutionary War or earlier they are a gold mine for folks who want the green & blue of Continental, the Red of British, and the Dark Blue of Hessian (plus all the colors of other units). I look upon Uniform Collectors as being kinda waffly, unable to decide on a group to play with and more interested in the toys. (There is a special kind of uber-‘Uniform Collector’ I refer to as the ‘Unit Collector’ who are sadly quite common and won’t mention at this time unless folks want the details. ) ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2010, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dumbasses-ever-heard-of-historical-re-enactment-or-what/556845/132 "2010-10-13T19:10:08Z")
> [@](#): > > Members of the division’s bakery column, led by Obersturmführer Braunnagel and Untersturmführer Kochalty, assisted Einsatzgruppe A in rounding up Ukrainian Jews. Witnesses report that the Jewish victims were forced to run a gauntlet formed by soldiers who would beat them as they passed, and when they reached the end of the gauntlet, Einsatzgruppen officers murdered them and their bodies were pushed into a bomb crater. If this is just their bakers, I’d hate to see what their butchers were up to. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2010, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dumbasses-ever-heard-of-historical-re-enactment-or-what/556845/133 "2010-10-13T20:46:10Z")
Not to mention the candlestick makers. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2010, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dumbasses-ever-heard-of-historical-re-enactment-or-what/556845/134 "2010-10-14T00:28:20Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Not to mention the candlestick makers. That’s not something I care to think about. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2010, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dumbasses-ever-heard-of-historical-re-enactment-or-what/556845/135 "2010-10-14T06:14:06Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > As for the brouhaha in the OP: I’m surprised by the uproar. Historical re-enactment has a long history and the reality is that someone has to be the bad guy. No problem. Just don’t call the bad guy “Valiant”, as the Iott group’s website did. And don’t say, “Well, who am I to judge Snidely Whiplash?”, as Iott did on CNN. Also, if you’re doing an historical reenactment of SS troops, don’t whitewash or ignore their human rights abuses. ---
**Author:** ![Doughbag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Doughbag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doughbag)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2010, 9:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dumbasses-ever-heard-of-historical-re-enactment-or-what/556845/136 "2010-10-14T09:14:30Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > > [@Doughbag](#): > > > > This is just retarded, ever heared about TV, Movies or Cinema? > > > > Do we procecute every actor for acting his or her part? > > > > Maybe the next time someone plays a serial killer in a movie, we put him onto the Green mile for real. And when the aliens kill all humans or extract some of us to another planet do do some Predetor’ing we send those aliens to prison for unlawfull behaviour. > > > > By the way, when I was a little boy I dressed up as an Indian or a Cowboy and we shot each other with fake guns, so lay the lay on me…:smack: > > Prince Harry got lambasted for dressing up like Hitler . Can you figure out why? He made a stupid uneducated rebelious statement joke - it was not ment to re-enact, it was meant to shock … and well, it did not go down well at all for him. … but his choice for wearing a Nazi uniform it was not for re-enactment purposes > **[BBC NEWS | UK | Harry says sorry for Nazi costume](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/4170083.stm)** > > Clarence House apologises after Prince Harry is pictured wearing a swastika armband to a fancy dress party. > **[The Sun](https://www.thesun.co.uk/)** > > The Best for News, Sport, Showbiz, Celebrities ---
**Author:** ![Doughbag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Doughbag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doughbag)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2010, 9:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dumbasses-ever-heard-of-historical-re-enactment-or-what/556845/137 "2010-10-14T09:31:59Z")
It’s part of history and people do re-enact - that dude, might made a poor choice in picking a SS Nazi, but lets pretend we have a new blockbuster movie about the Europeen WW2 without any Nazi’s. The Allies bombing some place that does not exist, shooting bullets into the sea at nothing, having hand to hand combat with themself… because NO ONE can or will wear a Nazi uniform. There is a slight difference between someone having a weird hobby in dressing up in whatever uniform - Fairy, Hobbit, Starship Trooper, Nazi, Klingon or wtf ever - to actually believing in the goodness of Nazi’sm like a Neo-Nazi. They even have an exibition about The Fuhrer now in Germany: > **[Führer Show: A Visit to Germany's First-Ever Hitler Exhibition](https://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/fuehrer-show-a-visit-to-germany-s-first-ever-hitler-exhibition-a-722612.html)** > > On Friday, the German History Museum is opening postwar Germany's first-ever comprehensive exhibition on Adolf Hitler. Curators went out of their way to avoid creating an homage -- yet they are still concerned about attracting cheering neo-Nazis and... [http://www.sanfranciscosentinel.com/?p=91556](http://www.sanfranciscosentinel.com/?p=91556) ---
**Author:** ![kidneyfailure](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9f8e36/32.png) [@kidneyfailure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidneyfailure)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2010, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dumbasses-ever-heard-of-historical-re-enactment-or-what/556845/138 "2010-10-14T10:31:47Z")
> [@villa](#): > > > [@kidneyfailure](#): > > > > What would I think of a re-enactment of Andersonville or Auschwitz? Well, if it were an attempt to present a historically-accurate “living history” portrayal of what went on it that time period at those particular places I would support it. I might even take part in it (yes, perhaps even as a Nazi). If it were being recreated to espouse or spread Neo-Nazi ideology, to demonize the victims and glorify the war criminals, to support a particular racial ideology instead of historical accuracy, it and everyone involved in it could kiss my ass. > > There’s a definite middle ground there you are ignoring. My friends who were Sealed Knot members (and I went along to some of their re-enactments) certainly wanted to be as historically-accurate as possible, but the purpose behind the meetings, in the final analysis, was neither educational nor to spread Parlimentarian ideology. It was to have fun. No, no, I wasn’t trying to ignore it. A big, big part of re-enacting is fun. Yeah, stupid as it sounds it’s fun to dress up in historical costumes, pretend to be someone else, think in a way someone who died 80 years ago in a foreign country thought, etc. That was one of the biggest reasons why I got into reenacting. I think your next comment: > [@villa](#): > > Now, I just don’t see the “fun” aspect so much of re-enacting packing Jews into gas chambers. …might be a bit misleading. Is that was this group was doing? If so, that’s suspect unless it’s for one of those “living history” type of events I mentioned before (showing schoolkids the awful truth of the Shoah, for example). I could understand the “fun” in dressing up in a historical costumes and recreating camp life while on the march or something like that. Recreating historical atrocities would raise my eyebrow. But, again, I don’t think that’s what this group does. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2010, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dumbasses-ever-heard-of-historical-re-enactment-or-what/556845/139 "2010-10-14T13:09:31Z")
Probably not. **villa** just has a poor grasp on things. Yet is proud to sit in judgment ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2010, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dumbasses-ever-heard-of-historical-re-enactment-or-what/556845/140 "2010-10-14T13:33:33Z")
> [@Doughbag](#): > > It’s part of history and people do re-enact - that dude, might made a poor choice in picking a SS Nazi, but lets pretend we have a new blockbuster movie about the Europeen WW2 without any Nazi’s. I think this is the first time I’ve seen a strawman wearing a Nazi uniform. This might make me unique on the board: I’ve played Josef Mengele onstage, so in a roundabout fashion I do have experience in dressing like a Nazi for no pay. (This was in a high school production of _Playing for Time_ by Arthur Miller. It’s based on a true story but it’s not a historical reenactment by any stretch.) I did my fair share of research for the part. At no time was I left awestruck by his valor or the way he defended Germany and fought for freedom. That’s all bullshit. He was an astonishingly sick and amoral man. Nothing he did had any scientific value - not even in theory. He was the equivalent of a child who kills animals for fun. The difference was that he was a grown man with medical training, and instead of tormenting a few housepets, he had access to an unlimited supply of people who he didn’t recognize as human beings, and had permission to do whatever he wanted with them. He killed thousands of people directly and through neglect (and I’m ignoring the people he sent to the gas chambers because he wasn’t interested in experimenting on them), and did it without a shred of compassion. He was motivated by insane racial theories and callous curiosity - “I wonder what would happen if I sewed a pair of twins together or vivisected this person?” - and that was about it. See if you can spot the subtle differences between what me and Rich Iott’s Wiking wannabe friends. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dumbasses-ever-heard-of-historical-re-enactment-or-what/556845.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-dumbasses-ever-heard-of-historical-re-enactment-or-what/556845.md?page=8)