Bearer instruments are property of their bearer, regardless of whether there are clues to identify who the previous bearer was. If I lost anything that included bearer instruments, I would not expect them to be returned, ever.
I’d never check the lottery numbers.
I don’t care if other people want to call it stealing. What the hell, I’ll stipulate that it’s stealing. I’m just saying it wouldn’t bother me because it would be money from the sky for the other person anyway. Their life would not be negatively affected. You can’t take away something they never actually had.
Let’s say you have some bearer bonds, and I hit you over the head and take them. I do this in front of witnesses and there is such high quality video of the theft that you can even read some detail on the bonds.
The cops catch me moments later with the bonds still in my hands, and charge me with assault, and who knows what else.
After the trial, who gets the bonds? You? Me? The property clerk at the police station?
Actually, nm.
If it takes nothing away from you, it also gains you nothing.
Perhaps what you mean is it takes nothing away from them that they know about. Nonetheless it takes $80 million away from them.
I don’t think it’s okay to commit an unethical act against someone else even if they don’t find out about it. Saying it’s okay to do so leads down a dark road.
No, I mean it takes nothing away from them at all. They are completely unaffected. It’s money they never had to begin with. Nothing unethical about it.
They had a ticket. They no longer have that.
So they’re out the buck they spent for the ticket, just like they would be if the ticket was a loser.
We’ve already established we’re thieves. Now we’re just negotiating the price.
I just don’t see that as an honest argument. They had a winning ticket. They may not KNOW that they’re out more than a buck, but that doesn’t change the reality.
Boyo Jim, I think your point is valid. I don’t have a problem with your stance at all. I just think some of the justifications in this thread don’t make much sense.
Yes, except what the ticket represents is a tiny chance at a prize, according to the rules of a game. They played the game by the rules and acquired their tiny chance. They were out the buck it cost when they bought it: you’re not stealing the buck from them. The tiny chance turned out to be a winner. You’re stealing their chance at being a winner, and although they only know it’s a tiny chance, you know it’s a certainty–unless you steal that certainty from them.
Your argument would make marginally more sense if they’d bought a lottery ticket without knowing what a lottery ticket was.
The ticket is worthless until it’s cashed. They never had that money, so I wouldn’t be taking it away from them. They’re out nothing but a buck whether they know it or not. I can’t take away what they never possessed. They don’t deserve it anyway. Greedy bastards, trying to get something for nothing.
I would try to work something out with the person whose wallet I found (maybe even consult an attorney first as a previous poster mentioned).
No, it’s not because I’m incredibly ethical, considerate, or even all that nice. Rather, it’s because I can imagine the law suits involved if the person ever found out I took their winning ticket and took the entire prize for myself. Sure, I may be okay with the lottery administration, but that doesn’t mean someone else (and their lawyer) can’t make my life hell with nuisance law suits etc…
Hell, even if I won the lottery with a ticket I bought, I have no doubts whatsoever that certain family members would come to me repeatedly with their hands out telling me that I did nothing to deserve the money, so why shouldn’t I share with them when they so obviously need it. My ex-SIL does that now and I’ve worked for every dime I have. I can’t even begin to imagine the guilt trips she’d lay on me (or nuisance law suits she’d dream up) if she found out I had money from a lottery ticket someone else had bought.
So I’d try to work something out with the purchaser if only to protect myself from the lawsuits, accusations, etc.
You seem to have some mystical ideas about economics here. The ticket is worth 80 million dollars when it’s cashed, but those 80 million dollars are worthless until they themselves are traded for consumer goods. The ticket is, essentially, an 80-million-dollar bill that its owner doesn’t realize is worth 80 million dollars.
They’re already out a buck before you got involved. The buck is gone and irrelevant. The buck is someone else’s property now. Forget the buck. What they’re out is the ticket, and its chance of winning, a chance they incorrectly think is tiny and that you know is certain.
I don’t think what they know is relevant. Even if they do know it was a winning ticket, they still haven’t lost anything they ever had to begin with.
Besides, I didn’t take it, they lost it. They should take better care of their stuff.
The main thing for me is this seems to be an argument that its fine for lottery stores to lie to you about winning tickets as long as you didnt know it was a winning ticket, and they can then pocket the ticket winnings themselves.
The people didnt know they’d really won so they’re only out a buck, everyones happy.
Otara
No, that would be fraud.
Curious how folks would see a different scenario:
I visit a friend whose granddad just died, and she’s going through all her granddad’s stuff sorting out what to keep and what to throw away. There’s a huge box of baseball cards that he collected, and I’m idly looking through it when I come across a Honus Wagner card, possibly worth more than $2 million. As far as she knows, it’s just junk.
May I palm it and take it from her to sell?
Does it change if she’s a stranger, and I see the card through the open window of her car?
The ethics are the same to me: in both cases, I’m taking a piece of paper that belongs to someone else, that I know is valuable and they don’t know is valuable. Although they don’t know I’m stealing value from them, I know it, and I don’t place a monetary value on my integrity, so I don’t do it.
I can’t begin to see how this has any relationship to reality. They had a chance at winning. You took that from them.
So fuckin’ what? It’s not your prerogative to teach them that lesson, either legally or ethically. The fact that they lost it has nothing to do with whether you took it. If you didn’t take it, you’d find yourself at the lottery office empty-handed. It’s true that they lost it; it’s also true that you took it.
No, that would be stealing from someone’s home. A wallet on the street is abandoned property.