# You gotta be shitting me! \[Christmas music\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 12, 2006, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-gotta-be-shitting-me-christmas-music/380137 "2006-11-12T19:32:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2006, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-gotta-be-shitting-me-christmas-music/380137/181 "2006-11-16T08:28:03Z")
[QUOTE=Rebecca DiMwitter] Slightly hijacking, but it is the nauseous Christmas cards of a totally white, totally Gerber-baby-looking Baby Jesus, totally WASP-y 3 Wise Men, and totally almost-nordic-appearing Mary and Joseph that just grind my gears when I receive religious cards of this ilk for the holidays. I’m (sadly) as white and germanic and uninteresting as they come in racial appearance, but even if you buy the whole Jesus tale, the Mary story, and the Nativity thing, no one can possibly believe these folks were actually WHITE, can they? [/QUOTE] Depends, do you consider your average non-Ethiopian Jew as white? Cos hereabouts we do, but then, Hitler and his pals would gladly have condemned the whole of Spain to the gas chambers for being too dark-skinned and having a general bad case of Catholicism. Blonde, blue-eyes white? No. But white? Yes. Tales from the Spanish Civil War of 1936-9 indicate that the Italians spent most of their time chasing skirts; the Germans considered our skirts too darkie to be chaseworthy. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2006, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-gotta-be-shitting-me-christmas-music/380137/182 "2006-11-16T12:26:02Z")
[QUOTE=Rebecca DiMwitter] Slightly hijacking, but it is the nauseous Christmas cards of a totally white, totally Gerber-baby-looking Baby Jesus, totally WASP-y 3 Wise Men, and totally almost-nordic-appearing Mary and Joseph that just grind my gears when I receive religious cards of this ilk for the holidays. I’m (sadly) as white and germanic and uninteresting as they come in racial appearance, but even if you buy the whole Jesus tale, the Mary story, and the Nativity thing, no one can possibly believe these folks were actually WHITE, can they? I’m amazed and appalled at the audacity of even manufacturing cards with this broad a misrepresentation, yet I see a few every year. So yes, I too can feel for our other-faith brothers and sisters who have to somehow tolerate the whole annoying WASP-y package. Trust those who are saying this is an extension of business in the good ole USA, wrong in so many ways as it is. –Beck [/QUOTE] You’re gonna love the movie THE NATIVITY STORY this December. Seriously- you just might. They’re actually going for a Mediterranean-looking cast. (Tho “Mary” is actually Kiwi- the WHALE RIDER girl.) I agree with you about too-white Holy Family decorations, but WASPish Magi constitute maybe half of the Magi figures I see. Rather, the other half of Magi figures I see are multi-ethnic- European, African & Asian. ---
**Author:** ![Catamount](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/catamount/32/2840_2.png) [@Catamount](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catamount)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2006, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-gotta-be-shitting-me-christmas-music/380137/183 "2006-11-16T13:08:19Z")
[QUOTE=Kimstu] I support this mission as a general principle, but if you diss Ladies Sewing Circles again I will have to come over there and punch multiple holes in your sorry stinking ass with quilting needles and embroidery scissors. (You know, the kind shaped like little storks where the blades are the beak and the handles are the legs? I always think those are so charming.) [/QUOTE] No no no no. Don’t risk breaking your stork scissors on him. Use the pinking shears. ---
**Author:** ![Walter\_Windchill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Walter\_Windchill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walter_Windchill)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2006, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-gotta-be-shitting-me-christmas-music/380137/184 "2006-11-16T15:25:07Z")
I may be the only person in America who doesn’t get his panties bunched up over ANYTHING about Christmas. Not “Merry Christmas.” Not “ho ho ho.” Not the decorations. Not the bell ringers. Not the TV specials. Not the music on the radio being too holiday-centric or not religious enough. Really, as we approach the end of the year, I just think, “Hey, Walt! You made it another year! Have a glass of brandy and be happy!” I think a little bit of “Well, I don’t have to get my panties in a knot over this,” would go a long way in mending our country. ---
**Author:** ![Ensign\_Edison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ab992/32.png) [@Ensign\_Edison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ensign_Edison)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2006, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-gotta-be-shitting-me-christmas-music/380137/185 "2006-11-16T15:33:10Z")
[QUOTE=Kimstu] I support this mission as a general principle, but if you diss Ladies Sewing Circles again I will have to come over there and punch multiple holes in your sorry stinking ass with quilting needles and embroidery scissors. (You know, the kind shaped like little storks where the blades are the beak and the handles are the legs? I always think those are so charming.) I don’t much care what you say about scrapbookers, though. [/QUOTE] Oh, I knew what I was starting. I like to have dangerous enemies. It keeps life interesting. But for the benefit of any children or morons in the audience, kids, don’t try this at home. Taunting the Ladies’ Sewing Circle is like tangoing with a bull made of fire. Only professional jackasses such as myself should even consider stepping to the LSC. ---
**Author:** ![Rebecca\_DiMwitter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a87d85/32.png) [@Rebecca\_DiMwitter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rebecca_DiMwitter)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2006, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-gotta-be-shitting-me-christmas-music/380137/186 "2006-11-16T16:57:28Z")
[QUOTE=Nava] Depends, do you consider your average non-Ethiopian Jew as white? Cos hereabouts we do, but then, Hitler and his pals would gladly have condemned the whole of Spain to the gas chambers for being too dark-skinned and having a general bad case of Catholicism. Blonde, blue-eyes white? No. But white? Yes. Tales from the Spanish Civil War of 1936-9 indicate that the Italians spent most of their time chasing skirts; the Germans considered our skirts too darkie to be chaseworthy. [/QUOTE] You are correct and I thought of that after posting. The cards I see have Mary with light brown hair and blue eyes, and the kind of never-sees-the-sunlight skin that I myself (of northern German ancestry) have. But I would certainly consider Italians and Spanish as “white”, just not particularly WASP-y. As an ex-Catholic, I have my own ideas of what constitutes a bad case of Catholicism, but my own answer to that is a great deal less radical. My cute little fresh-off-the-boat German grandparents, Alvina and Reinholdt, however, felt that suffocating either in hell or in a gas chamber wasn’t a harsh enough punishment for ME, for turning away from their Lutheran faith & becoming a Papist. They’re surely spinning in their graves at my even more terrifying pagan beliefs these days. –Beck ---
**Author:** ![Ensign\_Edison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ab992/32.png) [@Ensign\_Edison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ensign_Edison)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2006, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-gotta-be-shitting-me-christmas-music/380137/187 "2006-11-16T18:00:49Z")
[QUOTE=Walter Windchill] I think a little bit of “Well, I don’t have to get my panties in a knot over this,” would go a long way in mending our country. [/QUOTE] Brilliant! Not caring and not acting, that’s the way to change the world! ---
**Author:** ![The\_Swan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@The\_Swan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Swan)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2006, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-gotta-be-shitting-me-christmas-music/380137/188 "2006-11-16T18:06:32Z")
[QUOTE=Ensign Edison] Brilliant! Not caring and not acting, that’s the way to change the world! [/QUOTE] Fallacy of the Excluded Middle. ---
**Author:** ![Ensign\_Edison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ab992/32.png) [@Ensign\_Edison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ensign_Edison)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2006, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-gotta-be-shitting-me-christmas-music/380137/189 "2006-11-16T18:11:18Z")
[QUOTE=The Swan] Fallacy of the Excluded Middle. [/QUOTE] Correct – on his part. I’m not the one whose position depends on it being impossible to care about both 24 Hour Jesus music and gay rights, or implying that somehow caring about one actually hurts the cause of the other. So the zero-sum game mistake is also being made. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Swan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@The\_Swan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Swan)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2006, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-gotta-be-shitting-me-christmas-music/380137/190 "2006-11-16T18:13:35Z")
[QUOTE=Ensign Edison] Correct – on his part. I’m not the one whose position depends on it being impossible to care about both 24 Hour Jesus music and gay rights, or implying that somehow caring about one actually hurts the cause of the other. So the zero-sum game mistake is also being made. [/QUOTE] No, on your part. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2006, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-gotta-be-shitting-me-christmas-music/380137/191 "2006-11-16T18:22:09Z")
[QUOTE=Ensign Edison] Brilliant! Not caring and not acting, that’s the way to change the world! [/QUOTE] Not daring and not acting about _what_, is the question. Taking religious holidays out of a public school where everyone doesn’t share the same religion, that is worth fighting over. Getting offended & upset because stores cater to a holiday that is observed by the vast majority of people in the culture, because it 1) helps encourage spending, and 2) most people seem to expect and enjoy it…that just doesn’t seem worth the energy expended. ---
**Author:** ![Ensign\_Edison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ab992/32.png) [@Ensign\_Edison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ensign_Edison)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2006, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-gotta-be-shitting-me-christmas-music/380137/192 "2006-11-16T18:25:47Z")
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena] Not daring and not acting about _what_, is the question. Taking religious holidays out of a public school where everyone doesn’t share the same religion, that is worth fighting over. Getting offended & upset because stores cater to a holiday that is observed by the vast majority of people in the culture, because it 1) helps encourage spending, and 2) most people seem to expect and enjoy it…that just doesn’t seem worth the energy expended. [/QUOTE] “Worth the energy expended”? The energy expended by not shopping somewhere and writing a letter to the management? Again, what specifically is the complaint here about if not an objection to people who care about something you don’t? It’s not enough that they have to endure the 24 Hour Jesus, but they also have to be indifferent to it, or you’re not happy? And Swan, explain yourself. What excluded middle are you talking about? He said “less panty twisting would make this country a better place”. He didn’t say “less panty twisting about Christmas music”, he said, in general, that getting LESS upset and taking less action about things would make the country a better place. Where does your objection apply? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Swan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@The\_Swan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Swan)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2006, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-gotta-be-shitting-me-christmas-music/380137/193 "2006-11-16T18:32:21Z")
[QUOTE=Ensign Edison] And Swan, explain yourself. What excluded middle are you talking about? He said “less panty twisting would make this country a better place”. He didn’t say “less panty twisting about Christmas music”, he said, in general, that getting LESS upset and taking less action about things would make the country a better place. Where does your objection apply? [/QUOTE] “Less panty twisting” does not exclude the middle. Not one bit. Your reply of “Not caring and not acting”, on the other hand, most certainly does. WW never said people shouldn’t care or act at all. He said that, in certain situations, they might do better to act less. This is a clear cut case of excluding the middle. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2006, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-gotta-be-shitting-me-christmas-music/380137/194 "2006-11-16T19:22:39Z")
[QUOTE=Ensign Edison] “Worth the energy expended”? The energy expended by not shopping somewhere and writing a letter to the management? Again, what specifically is the complaint here about if not an objection to people who care about something you don’t? It’s not enough that they have to endure the 24 Hour Jesus, but they also have to be indifferent to it, or you’re not happy? [/QUOTE] Me not happy? I’m perfectly happy for you to boycott anyone you want…it’s the American way. I have no objection whatsoever to your being offended by whatever you wish. I don’t necessarily understand why one would expend energy in that direction, but that doesn’t mean I have an objection to it…go for it, you have my full approval. ---
**Author:** ![Ensign\_Edison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ab992/32.png) [@Ensign\_Edison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ensign_Edison)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2006, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-gotta-be-shitting-me-christmas-music/380137/195 "2006-11-16T20:13:33Z")
[QUOTE=The Swan] WW never said people shouldn’t care or act at all. He said that, in certain situations, they might do better to act less. [/QUOTE] No, he did not. He said that IN GENERAL, not in certain situation, the country would be a better place with more complacency. This is clearly absurd. Maybe not when it comes to Jesus music, but as a general statement such as the one he made, it’s ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Ensign\_Edison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ab992/32.png) [@Ensign\_Edison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ensign_Edison)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2006, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-gotta-be-shitting-me-christmas-music/380137/196 "2006-11-16T20:14:40Z")
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena] Me not happy? I’m perfectly happy for you to boycott anyone you want…it’s the American way. I have no objection whatsoever to your being offended by whatever you wish. I don’t necessarily understand why one would expend energy in that direction, but that doesn’t mean I have an objection to it…go for it, you have my full approval. [/QUOTE] Right. So the purpose behind your post criticizing not just shutting up and accepting the fact that one is a minority was? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2006, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-gotta-be-shitting-me-christmas-music/380137/197 "2006-11-16T20:16:46Z")
> [@SpazCat](#): > > No no no no. Don’t risk breaking your stork scissors on him. Use the pinking shears. The goat-felching pinking shears? I lent them to **WhyNot** a few posts back. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2006, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-gotta-be-shitting-me-christmas-music/380137/198 "2006-11-16T20:35:32Z")
[QUOTE=Ensign Edison] Brilliant! Not caring and not acting, that’s the way to change the world! [/QUOTE] I didn’t read it that way. It sounded to me like a more colorful way of saying “You have to pick your battles.”. Some things are worth getting in an uproar over, like getting SSM legalized, and others, like what music a store owner decides to play, are not. YMMV ---
**Author:** ![Walter\_Windchill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Walter\_Windchill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walter_Windchill)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2006, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-gotta-be-shitting-me-christmas-music/380137/199 "2006-11-16T20:36:44Z")
[QUOTE=Ensign Edison] Brilliant! Not caring and not acting, that’s the way to change the world! [/QUOTE] Do you suppose that whining about Christmas Music is “the way to change the world”? In an energy-expended for good-gained ration, it is even less efficient than ranting on the Internet. Indeed, if there’s any effect at all, it is a negative one, contributing to the general lousiness of an already poorly paid and much mistreated retail professional. My post was advice, is all. Life really is less enjoyable if you choose to be offended by muzak or by the routine greeting of a store clerk. You are fully entitled to be offended, even outraged, but you lessen you own enjoyment of life, and you do not serve the greater good by unpleasant and ill tempered. There’s a difference between being oppressed by religious discrimination and merely encountering visual and audible evidence that other people are celebrating a religious holiday and/or encountering insufficient evidence that other people are celebrating a holiday to the degree you find appropriate. Whether you are upset about an imaginary “war on christmas,” or bitching about Christmas music, you are actually illustrating not religious bigotry by others, but an extreme sense of entitlement where everyone else in the world must tailor their lives to accomodate you. ---
**Author:** ![Ensign\_Edison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ab992/32.png) [@Ensign\_Edison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ensign_Edison)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2006, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-gotta-be-shitting-me-christmas-music/380137/200 "2006-11-16T20:46:39Z")
[QUOTE=Antinor01] I didn’t read it that way. It sounded to me like a more colorful way of saying “You have to pick your battles.”. Some things are worth getting in an uproar over, like getting SSM legalized, and others, like what music a store owner decides to play, are not. YMMV [/QUOTE] But again, that’s a completely false dichotomy. For one thing, the big things don’t spring fully formed from nowhere, but add up from little things. For another, absolutely nothing stops a person from both writing a letter, and even getting angry, about Jesus music _and_ fighting equal marriage rights. (As I’ve already pointed out repeatedly, but people are too busy whining that I’m better at the Pit than they are to actually pay attention to what I’m saying, it seems. Insult me, curse me, tear apart my arguments – I invite it! Flame away. But for chrissake, people, if all you can say is ‘He’s so meeean and aaangry’, you just fucking automatically lose. And that’s pathetic, because I’m just some ugly jackass with a huge chip on his miniscule shoulder.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-gotta-be-shitting-me-christmas-music/380137.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-gotta-be-shitting-me-christmas-music/380137.md?page=11)