# You gotta be shitting me! \[Christmas music\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 12, 2006, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-gotta-be-shitting-me-christmas-music/380137 "2006-11-12T19:32:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2006, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-gotta-be-shitting-me-christmas-music/380137/201 "2006-11-16T20:47:29Z")
[QUOTE=Ensign Edison] Right. So the purpose behind your post criticizing not just shutting up and accepting the fact that one is a minority was? [/QUOTE] I don’t think I understand the question. ---
**Author:** ![Walter\_Windchill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Walter\_Windchill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walter_Windchill)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2006, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-gotta-be-shitting-me-christmas-music/380137/202 "2006-11-16T20:55:16Z")
[QUOTE=Ensign Edison] But again, that’s a completely false dichotomy. For one thing, the big things don’t spring fully formed from nowhere, but add up from little things. For another, absolutely nothing stops a person from both writing a letter, and even getting angry, about Jesus music _and_ fighting equal marriage rights. [/QUOTE] Well, one could argue – I will! – that you lose credibility when you fight trivial battles. You get a reputation as a miserable crank who hates everything, so you have no authority or influence when you take up a meaningful battle, like equal marriage rights. I’ve done research on organizational change, and it is really dependent on people who are opinion leaders – they may or may not be leaders in the organization, but they are perceived by others as being informed, reasonable, and ethical. If you walk into your office place and start yelling at the secretary because she’s playing “Jesus music,” I assure you, nobody will listen to you when the organization considers extending benefits coverage to same sex couples. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Swan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@The\_Swan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Swan)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2006, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-gotta-be-shitting-me-christmas-music/380137/203 "2006-11-16T20:59:04Z")
[QUOTE=Ensign Edison] No, he did not. He said that IN GENERAL, not in certain situation, the country would be a better place with more complacency. This is clearly absurd. Maybe not when it comes to Jesus music, but as a general statement such as the one he made, it’s ridiculous. [/QUOTE] His exact words were: > [@](#): > > I think a little bit of “Well, I don’t have to get my panties in a knot over this,” would go a long way in mending our country. He did not say that this philosophy should be applied in every situation. Regardless, none of this changes the fact that you are guilty of excluding the middle. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2006, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-gotta-be-shitting-me-christmas-music/380137/204 "2006-11-16T21:02:15Z")
[QUOTE=Ensign Edison] But again, that’s a completely false dichotomy. For one thing, the big things don’t spring fully formed from nowhere, but add up from little things. For another, absolutely nothing stops a person from both writing a letter, and even getting angry, about Jesus music _and_ fighting equal marriage rights. (As I’ve already pointed out repeatedly, but people are too busy whining that I’m better at the Pit than they are to actually pay attention to what I’m saying, it seems. Insult me, curse me, tear apart my arguments – I invite it! Flame away. But for chrissake, people, if all you can say is ‘He’s so meeean and aaangry’, you just fucking automatically lose. And that’s pathetic, because I’m just some ugly jackass with a huge chip on his miniscule shoulder.) [/QUOTE] That’s why I indicated that its the way I read his statement and added the YMMV at the end. It was my interpretation of his words and nothing more or less. You can feel free to get angry about anything you like. (not that you need my permission ;)) Raise hell if you want, file lawsuits, scream rant and rave in any manner you see fit. All I ask is that you try to understand why others of us who are also minorities in this issue do not. ---
**Author:** ![Catamount](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/catamount/32/2840_2.png) [@Catamount](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catamount)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2006, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-gotta-be-shitting-me-christmas-music/380137/205 "2006-11-16T21:10:20Z")
[QUOTE=Kimstu] The goat-felching pinking shears? I lent them to **WhyNot** a few posts back. [/QUOTE] Well dammit. Hey, **WhyNot** , can I borrow the pinking shears? I wanna cut triangles. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2006, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-gotta-be-shitting-me-christmas-music/380137/206 "2006-11-16T21:17:47Z")
[QUOTE=SpazCat] Well dammit. Hey, **WhyNot** , can I borrow the pinking shears? I wanna cut triangles. [/QUOTE] Oh, come on, you’re going to have to be nastier than that! This is the Pit Ladies Sewing Circle, after all. You can’t just be all namby-pamby asking for the goat-felching pinking shears all polite and shit. We have fucking standards to maintain, you know. Beeyotch. ---
**Author:** ![Ensign\_Edison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ab992/32.png) [@Ensign\_Edison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ensign_Edison)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2006, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-gotta-be-shitting-me-christmas-music/380137/207 "2006-11-16T21:25:38Z")
[QUOTE=The Swan] Regardless, none of this changes the fact that you are guilty of excluding the middle. [/QUOTE] No, you fucking moron, I’m not excluding the middle at all under the interpretation I was using, which is that he meant his terms in a general way. If I thought he meant what you think he meant, then I would be, but I don’t. It’s pretty simple. I don’t know why you’re having such trouble with it. Your interpretation may be valid – maybe he didn’t mean it as general advice, in which case my comment was mistaken. > [@Antinor01](#): > > That’s why I indicated that its the way I read his statement and added the YMMV at the end. It was my interpretation of his words and nothing more or less. You can feel free to get angry about anything you like. (not that you need my permission ) Raise hell if you want, file lawsuits, scream rant and rave in any manner you see fit. What I don’t get is why everybody is acting like anything even close to those things happened. What happened was that MsRobyn said she doesn’t shop at those places, and lets the management know why, and a whole bunch of people declared that that was fucking insane. Then I came in and defended MsRobyn, at which point people started screaming and whining about me being insanely upset about Jesus music, which I’m not, and MsRobyn isn’t, and nobody here ever was. My vitriol was always directed at the sneering at her very reasonable reaction to a public nuisance. > [@](#): > > All I ask is that you try to understand why others of us who are also minorities in this issue do not. Why? What difference does it make what I understand? I understand that everyone has to choose what’s going to piss them off, big and small. I know peopl e pick different things. Remember, I was never insisting that you all had to stop shopping in those places or write letters to their managers, but defending the right of one person to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Ensign\_Edison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ab992/32.png) [@Ensign\_Edison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ensign_Edison)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2006, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-gotta-be-shitting-me-christmas-music/380137/208 "2006-11-16T21:27:59Z")
I’m sorry, the second two are quotes of Antinor01. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2006, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-gotta-be-shitting-me-christmas-music/380137/209 "2006-11-16T21:28:36Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > Oh, come on, you’re going to have to be nastier than that! This is the Pit Ladies Sewing Circle, after all. You can’t just be all namby-pamby asking for the goat-felching pinking shears all polite and shit. We have fucking standards to maintain, you know. Beeyotch. Right. I believe the etiquette of such a request prescribes something more on the order of “Hey you festering crooked-stitching cunt, are you going to pass me those goat-felching pinking shears so I can fucking cut some triangles, or am I going to have to ram this splintery darning egg so far up your rectum that it pops out your eyes which I will then stick on my pincushion as a warning to other festering crooked-stitching cunts not to keep hogging the motherraping assreaming goat-felching pinking shears?” ---
**Author:** ![The\_Swan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@The\_Swan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Swan)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2006, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-gotta-be-shitting-me-christmas-music/380137/210 "2006-11-16T21:37:10Z")
[QUOTE=Ensign Edison] No, you fucking moron, I’m not excluding the middle at all under the interpretation I was using, [/QUOTE] Yes you are, you fucking moron. There is no possible way to interpret WW’s comments that would ever include “not ever caring nor ever acting”. ---
**Author:** ![Walter\_Windchill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Walter\_Windchill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walter_Windchill)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2006, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-gotta-be-shitting-me-christmas-music/380137/211 "2006-11-16T21:46:30Z")
I agree with The Swan. I meant only that getting upset about “this,” meaning “the way stores choose to acknowledge or not acknowledge Christmas,” is silly. It’s also silly to complain to management. A waste of your time and their time. No store is going to change practice during a busy season to accomodate one pill who probably wasn’t going to buy anything anyway. You have to take a long hard look at yourself in the mirror and ask yourself, “am I really a victim of something, or am I just a crazy old crank?” ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2006, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-gotta-be-shitting-me-christmas-music/380137/212 "2006-11-16T21:48:22Z")
[QUOTE=Ensign Edison] What I don’t get is why everybody is acting like anything even close to those things happened. What happened was that MsRobyn said she doesn’t shop at those places, and lets the management know why, and a whole bunch of people declared that that was fucking insane. Then I came in and defended MsRobyn, at which point people started screaming and whining about me being insanely upset about Jesus music, which I’m not, and MsRobyn isn’t, and nobody here ever was. My vitriol was always directed at the sneering at her very reasonable reaction to a public nuisance. Why? What difference does it make what I understand? I understand that everyone has to choose what’s going to piss them off, big and small. I know peopl e pick different things. Remember, I was never insisting that you all had to stop shopping in those places or write letters to their managers, but defending the right of one person to do so. [/QUOTE] Once again, all I was doing was giving my interpretation of that one statement about panty twisting. I never said anything about **MsRobyn** or her choices. I believe that over my posts in this thread I have made my own position quite clear; I do not like round the clock ‘seasonal’ music but I’m also not going to get angry over it. If other people wish to get angry or have any other reaction then that is their own choice to make. I would put more vitriol into this, but I’m been horribly sick for the last few days and just can’t summon the energy for it. ---
**Author:** ![Ensign\_Edison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ab992/32.png) [@Ensign\_Edison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ensign_Edison)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2006, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-gotta-be-shitting-me-christmas-music/380137/213 "2006-11-16T21:48:52Z")
[QUOTE=The Swan] Yes you are, you fucking moron. There is no possible way to interpret WW’s comments that would ever include “not ever caring nor ever acting”. [/QUOTE] But they very easily could be made to mean that /less/ acting and /less/ caring could somehow change things, which was what I objected to. WhyNot, look at Walter’s comments, by the way, for an example of exactly what I was objecting to that you mysteriously missed in this thread: characterizing writing to management about this as crazy, pointless, silly, and so on. You may wish to pretend that everyone has been as civil as you and Antonir feel, but it just ain’t so. ---
**Author:** ![Ensign\_Edison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ab992/32.png) [@Ensign\_Edison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ensign_Edison)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2006, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-gotta-be-shitting-me-christmas-music/380137/214 "2006-11-16T21:51:08Z")
PS: And Walter has clarified that he did mean this specific issue. I still don’t see how less complaining about Jesus music would somehow make this a better country, but I withdraw the comment I made based on my erroneous interpretation of his comment. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Swan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@The\_Swan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Swan)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2006, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-gotta-be-shitting-me-christmas-music/380137/215 "2006-11-16T22:29:54Z")
[QUOTE=Ensign Edison] PS: And Walter has clarified that he did mean this specific issue. I still don’t see how less complaining about Jesus music would somehow make this a better country, but I withdraw the comment I made based on my erroneous interpretation of his comment. [/QUOTE] I never said it would make this a better country. I just said you excluded the middle, regardless of interpretation. ---
**Author:** ![Walter\_Windchill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Walter\_Windchill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walter_Windchill)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2006, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-gotta-be-shitting-me-christmas-music/380137/216 "2006-11-16T22:35:06Z")
I said (and I believe) that whining about things that have no measurable harmful effect on oneself and which make other people happy contributes to the general divisiveness and social erosion that has plagued our country. It would be too specific to say that our country would be a better place to live if Edison stopped complaining about Muzak, but there is cumulatively a toxic effect when people generally feel like they ought to be offended by things and ought to say something to the manager. But I think the main thrust of my argument is that Robyn and Edison would be happier if they didn’t get sweaty over trivial shit. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Swan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@The\_Swan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Swan)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2006, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-gotta-be-shitting-me-christmas-music/380137/217 "2006-11-16T22:37:18Z")
[QUOTE=The Swan] I never said it would make this a better country. I just said you excluded the middle, regardless of interpretation. [/QUOTE] I tried to stop this one before it went through. I didn’t want to pile on, or give anyone the impression that I did. Feel free to ignore. ---
**Author:** ![Ensign\_Edison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ab992/32.png) [@Ensign\_Edison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ensign_Edison)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2006, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-gotta-be-shitting-me-christmas-music/380137/218 "2006-11-16T22:44:12Z")
Swan, just for clarity’s sake: I didn’t mean to claim you said that, but that he implied it. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2006, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-gotta-be-shitting-me-christmas-music/380137/219 "2006-11-16T22:46:12Z")
[QUOTE=Walter Windchill] I said (and I believe) that whining about things that have no measurable harmful effect on oneself and which make other people happy contributes to the general divisiveness and social erosion that has plagued our country. It would be too specific to say that our country would be a better place to live if Edison stopped complaining about Muzak, but there is cumulatively a toxic effect when people generally feel like they ought to be offended by things and ought to say something to the manager. But I think the main thrust of my argument is that Robyn and Edison would be happier if they didn’t get sweaty over trivial shit. [/QUOTE] I pretty much agree with this entire post, but most especially with the last sentence. It’s not that we aren’t all entitled to be offended by whatever we wish, but the question I was trying to pose was when does it become in our own best interests to pick our battles a little more judiciously? ---
**Author:** ![Ensign\_Edison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ab992/32.png) [@Ensign\_Edison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ensign_Edison)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2006, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-gotta-be-shitting-me-christmas-music/380137/220 "2006-11-16T23:53:20Z")
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena] I pretty much agree with this entire post, but most especially with the last sentence. It’s not that we aren’t all entitled to be offended by whatever we wish, but the question I was trying to pose was when does it become in our own best interests to pick our battles a little more judiciously? [/QUOTE] If you mean the second part, the first is just blowing sunshine – “you’re entitled to be wrong”, essentially. If it’s against our best interests, it’s wrong, regardless of whether we have the right to do things that hurt us. I respect someone like Walter for at least understanding his own damn position more than all the people who want to have it both ways. I disagree that not shopping somewhere and writing a letter is injudicious. I’d like to see you or Walter substantiate the idea that there’s something excessive and reckless about such actions, and that somehow they take away from the “real” struggle. I don’t understand this fashionable dismissal of the idea that small, even symbolic gestures can be incredibly important, or the seeming belief that unless jackbooted thugs are actually kicking down your door, no unfairness is worth even the very small act of writing a letter over. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-gotta-be-shitting-me-christmas-music/380137.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-gotta-be-shitting-me-christmas-music/380137.md?page=12)