# You have 100 Blame Points. Assign them to those responsible for the financial meltdown. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 20, 2011, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-100-blame-points-assign-them-to-those-responsible-for-the-financial-meltdown/600241 "2011-10-20T13:08:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2011, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-100-blame-points-assign-them-to-those-responsible-for-the-financial-meltdown/600241/61 "2011-10-22T14:26:06Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > I really hope the previous post was some facetious attempt at sarcasm. Oops, wrong message board. What I meant to say was: 100 points to evil rich people, and bankers, and Republicans. Was that the right answer??? No wait, only 90 points to them, 10 points has to go to the bastards calling people during dinner that **Gonzomax** keeps talking about. Does that make people feel better about their ignorance and stupidity? ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2011, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-100-blame-points-assign-them-to-those-responsible-for-the-financial-meltdown/600241/62 "2011-10-22T14:42:37Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Without mentioning any specific Doper by name, I do suspect you’re referring to the one whose sincere postings are every bit as stupid as his facetious postings. I had trouble distinguishing the two cases at first. If you want to actually look at causes instead of just blaming Reagan, we have a tax code that specifically allows mortgage interest tax deductions, and doesn’t tax capital gains on the sale of personal property (up to something like $250,000). If you want to know why this crisis at this time, it was the same in the tech bubble and the Great Depression: people convinced themselves it was a sure thing, and when it’s a sure thing borrowing to invest sounds like a great idea. After that it’s just a matter of time until enough people have enough debt. A person with equity in their home doesn’t need to go into foreclosure, it’s that simple. By 2007 fewer and fewer people had equity in their home, either through a shitty new mortgage, or by milking it out in a home equity line of credit. We might as well blame witches for all the good it would do. You really should stick to _debating_ in the pit. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2011, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-100-blame-points-assign-them-to-those-responsible-for-the-financial-meltdown/600241/63 "2011-10-22T19:29:17Z")
It is not that simple. a person who just kept on making house payments ,year after year. lost his equity when the crash came and depressed the value of homes. One day you had equity, the next day you did not. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2011, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-100-blame-points-assign-them-to-those-responsible-for-the-financial-meltdown/600241/64 "2011-10-22T20:05:42Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > It is not that simple. a person who just kept on making house payments ,year after year. lost his equity when the crash came and depressed the value of homes. No, once again, you’re lost. You managed to stumble your way into the middle of a complex situation, plant your flag, and assume you know how you got there. “The crash” wasn’t a freak weather storm that just suddenly struck and caught people off guard. How have you managed to participate in every one of these threads yet fail to pick up even the slightest bit of information? Do you even know what home equity means? \*A person making payments year after year? \*Do you know how little of your payments go towards equity in the first couple of years? Did you know that NONE of your payments go to equity if it’s an interest only loan? Do you know how much equity a person has after a year when they started with 0% down payment? I’m not even sure you know what a mortgage is. There are mortgage calculators on the internet, you can use to learn. As an example, a person that gets $100,000 no money down loan will pay about $1400 the first year into equity and over $5000 towards interest. So in your little bit of rhetoric, \*year and year \*will amount to a total of about $8000 in equity after 5 years (and nearly $30k in interest). Yet you act surprised that house prices fell at all, just like everyone else that got those stupid phone calls you keep talking about. > [@gonzomax](#): > > One day you had equity, the next day you did not. You know that’s bullshit right? They didn’t ever have equity, except for the illusion that other house prices were rising. Like the geniuses in the 20’s and 90’s that thought they were rich because their stock portfolio was up. People stopped having equity when they stopped putting money down for a house. If you bothered to look at the timeline of events, it was when house prices stopped going up that things got messy, not when they fell. People were counting on their house value going up high enough that they could refinance. They, like you, thought that equity was granted by some magical fairy and would just happen. People were borrowing to invest, which works great when the markets are going up fast enough to cover margin costs. But isn’t so fun when the markets slow down and stop going up. When you get enough people borrowing to invest, you have a lot of people getting the same margin call at the same time. Don’t suppose you know what a margin call is, do you? Do you know what happens when a lot of people all get a margin call at the same time? And when none of those people have any money to pay it? Didn’t think so. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2011, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-100-blame-points-assign-them-to-those-responsible-for-the-financial-meltdown/600241/65 "2011-10-22T20:33:34Z")
**emacknight** , step into my [office](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=14384577#post14384577). ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2011, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-100-blame-points-assign-them-to-those-responsible-for-the-financial-meltdown/600241/66 "2011-10-22T21:10:59Z")
MCNIGHT you are a joke. Of course I know how much money goes toward the principal in the early payments. So ,try and follow, in order to get a lot of equity, you would have to pay a long time. Which is what I said. Through no fault of your own, the neighborhood gets a huge amount of foreclosures. Your property value plummets. All you did was make payments. I suppose you would assign this person 90 points or so for acting so recklessly. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2011, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-100-blame-points-assign-them-to-those-responsible-for-the-financial-meltdown/600241/67 "2011-10-22T21:59:09Z")
Yes, but the likelihood of your mortgage being underwater is roughly inversely proportional to the amount of time you have been paying on your mortgage prior to the GR, for two reasons: 1. The appreciation bubble didn’t start in earnest until 2002. 2. The amount of principal paid on the mortgage increases every year that you pay on it. Therefore, a house bought in 2006 is far more likely to fall underwater in 2009 (compared to a home bought in, say, 1999) as (a) you bought at the height of the bubble, and (b) you’re going to have the lowest amount of equity in the home. Of course, the above scenario assumes a fixed-rate mortgage and no HELOC. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2011, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-100-blame-points-assign-them-to-those-responsible-for-the-financial-meltdown/600241/68 "2011-10-22T22:16:58Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Yes, but the likelihood of your mortgage being underwater is roughly inversely proportional to the amount of time you have been paying on your mortgage prior to the GR, for two reasons: > > 1. The appreciation bubble didn’t start in earnest until 2002. > 2. The amount of principal paid on the mortgage increases every year that you pay on it. > > Therefore, a house bought in 2006 is far more likely to fall underwater in 2009 (compared to a home bought in, say, 1999) as (a) you bought at the height of the bubble, and (b) you’re going to have the lowest amount of equity in the home. > > Of course, the above scenario assumes a fixed-rate mortgage and no HELOC. In my neighborhood we have a house that was build some time ago (about 15 years ). It sold for 325K. They are now trying to sell it for 179 and are getting no takers. If you had paid on it until you got equity up 100 K. The crash would have wiped it out. Your crime:paying your mortgage regularly for a long time. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2011, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-100-blame-points-assign-them-to-those-responsible-for-the-financial-meltdown/600241/69 "2011-10-22T22:18:17Z")
When was it sold for $325k? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2011, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-100-blame-points-assign-them-to-those-responsible-for-the-financial-meltdown/600241/70 "2011-10-23T02:24:16Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > When was it sold for $325k? Between 10 and 15 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2011, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-100-blame-points-assign-them-to-those-responsible-for-the-financial-meltdown/600241/71 "2011-10-23T02:31:23Z")
[http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/completelist/0,29569,1877351,00.html](http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/completelist/0,29569,1877351,00.html) Time has a list of 25 to blame for the mess . ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2011, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-100-blame-points-assign-them-to-those-responsible-for-the-financial-meltdown/600241/72 "2011-10-23T14:21:18Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > MCNIGHT you are a joke. You really need to quit posting personal insults and this is a Warning that you are out of line, once more. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![JustinC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justinc/32/8083_2.png) [@JustinC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JustinC)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2011, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-100-blame-points-assign-them-to-those-responsible-for-the-financial-meltdown/600241/73 "2011-10-23T19:15:36Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > I just realized I’m 10 points short… I’ll think about it and throw another person/company/piece of legislation under the bus later on. Greenspan Put. Great post, BTW. I’ve only read two books on the subject so thanks for educating. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2011, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-100-blame-points-assign-them-to-those-responsible-for-the-financial-meltdown/600241/74 "2011-10-23T21:19:18Z")
Thanks for the compliment, **Justin**. Greenspan is too easy, though, and has already been mentioned. It’s a quirk of mine, but I’m looking for a little originality here… ---
**Author:** ![JustinC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justinc/32/8083_2.png) [@JustinC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JustinC)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2011, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-100-blame-points-assign-them-to-those-responsible-for-the-financial-meltdown/600241/75 "2011-10-23T21:44:21Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Thanks for the compliment, **Justin**. > > Greenspan is too easy, though, and has already been mentioned. It’s a quirk of mine, but I’m looking for a little originality here… ‘Originality’ as in lateral? Then I’d plump for Sigmund Freud 😛 ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2011, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-100-blame-points-assign-them-to-those-responsible-for-the-financial-meltdown/600241/76 "2011-10-24T00:15:05Z")
100 points to human beings because of the frailty of human nature. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2011, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-100-blame-points-assign-them-to-those-responsible-for-the-financial-meltdown/600241/77 "2011-10-24T01:37:59Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > 100 points to human beings because of the frailty of human nature. Frailty? You mean low level greed and no care about fellow humans and their plight. This was a long time carefully planned take over of the economical system. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-100-blame-points-assign-them-to-those-responsible-for-the-financial-meltdown/600241.md?page=3)