# You have an MD or a PhD. Do you make people call you "Doctor" in social settings? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 15, 2012, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-an-md-or-a-phd-do-you-make-people-call-you-doctor-in-social-settings/634798 "2012-09-15T16:50:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Randolph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Randolph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Randolph)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2014, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-an-md-or-a-phd-do-you-make-people-call-you-doctor-in-social-settings/634798/121 "2014-05-09T23:14:54Z")
> [@adrsz88](#): > > I do have a Ph.D, and yes, I demand others address me as doctor. And why shouldn’t I? Don’t many of you other Ph.Ds drive nicer cars than everyone else? Don’t we make more money and live in bigger homes with beautiful spouses, and aren’t our children better educated than those masses who shop at Wal-mart? Buying a Mercades and wearing expensive wristwatches are subconscious desires to distinguish ourselves from others who are less privileged and cannot afford to do the same. > > Is it wrong to buy a car that cost more than an ordinary citizen makes in four years? Is it wrong to buy a suit that costs more than a normal citizen makes in a month? Although its difficult to admit, the fact is anyone with a Ph.D obtained one to earn more money / elevate their social standing. > > It’s in our human nature to categorize ourselves and stand out against competitors. If two children are riding bicycles at a skate park, don’t they compete to find out who the better stuntman is? Adults do it too, but because of arrogance and fear of egotism, they would rather hide their accomplishments rather than boast about them. If you have a higher education than 95% of the citizens, why should that accomplishment be omitted? I believe too many of you choose to express your accomplishments in subtle ways, ( by buying unnecessary things) but do not follow through through with your ideology that you are more privileged than others (by insisting to be called doctor). > > Refusing to be called doctor is just an arrogant, self-presevering attempt to fit in with others who you mistakingly wish to identify with. Gaining acceptance from these people is a subconscious wish to avoid the same fate as Socrates. Insist to be called doctor. Don’t be ashamed of who you’ve become. I diagnose insecurity. ---
**Author:** ![Desert\_Nomad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desert_nomad/32/177_2.png) [@Desert\_Nomad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desert_Nomad)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2014, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-an-md-or-a-phd-do-you-make-people-call-you-doctor-in-social-settings/634798/122 "2014-05-09T23:56:35Z")
I’m in my 40s and my dad passed away 7 years ago. When people call me “Mr. Nomad”, I start looking to see if they are talking to my dad. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2014, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-an-md-or-a-phd-do-you-make-people-call-you-doctor-in-social-settings/634798/123 "2014-05-10T01:38:53Z")
I have several friends with doctorates as well as some medical doctors. All of them go by first name in social settings. Another close friend recently passed and he preffered to be called Dr. so and so even by his fairly close associates and friends. I have no idea what he was a Dr. of. He was 94 years old so it may have been more of a thing when he was comming up. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2014, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-an-md-or-a-phd-do-you-make-people-call-you-doctor-in-social-settings/634798/124 "2014-05-10T01:42:15Z")
I was once called for jury duty. I sat there as prospective jurors were being questioned. The case involved involuntary manslaughter, self defense in a domestic violence situation. The lawyers were asking prospective jurors whether or not they were married. If a woman answered that she was married, the lawyers asked did she prefer to be called Mrs. or Ms. One woman looked down her nose at them and replied _“It’s Dr. !”_ I have no academic titles but in a social situation I think I’d prefer a marital title to a professional one. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2014, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-an-md-or-a-phd-do-you-make-people-call-you-doctor-in-social-settings/634798/125 "2014-05-10T02:34:05Z")
I’m now imagining the cry going out – _“Is there a doctor in the house?”_ – at which point a veritable parade of folks who know better rush forward: _“My doctorate’s in comparative theology!”_ _“Juris Doctor, reporting for duty!”_ _“I have a PhD in Dance Studies!”_ _“Got me an honorary one!”_ _“Ed.D for LIFE, yo!”_ You wouldn’t do that? Then don’t make people call you “Doctor”. ---
**Author:** ![yams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/848f3c/32.png) [@yams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yams)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2014, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-an-md-or-a-phd-do-you-make-people-call-you-doctor-in-social-settings/634798/126 "2014-05-10T04:18:18Z")
> [@Ms\_Boods](#): > > Sorry about the double quote, but wanted to add one to the list: I can put FHEA after my name as well, and when my mum asked, ‘What does that mean?’ (she’s far more excited about all the degrees and stuff), I said, 'It means ‘Fucking hell, enough already.’ [Flathead Home Educators Assocation?](http://www.fheaonline.org/) love yams!! ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2014, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-an-md-or-a-phd-do-you-make-people-call-you-doctor-in-social-settings/634798/127 "2014-05-10T10:53:27Z")
> [@Baker](#): > > I was once called for jury duty. I sat there as prospective jurors were being questioned. The case involved involuntary manslaughter, self defense in a domestic violence situation. > > The lawyers were asking prospective jurors whether or not they were married. If a woman answered that she was married, the lawyers asked did she prefer to be called Mrs. or Ms. One woman looked down her nose at them and replied _“It’s Dr. !”_ > > I have no academic titles but in a social situation I think I’d prefer a marital title to a professional one. See, if I were in a situation were they were going to use titles anyways, I’d rather use my professional title than my marital (or lack of) one. I also see it if by chance, the men who were doctors (of any kind) would be called Dr. If the men who can use the Dr. title opted for Mr. instead, I can deal with that and accept being called Ms. But if the men were going to be called Dr., then damn right I would want to be called Dr. too. I’m guessing that is where the woman came from, from situations were the men are given their title, but women are presented by their marital title, even if they have and can use another title. She may have sounded defensive, but she probably had sadly at least some experiences like the above. ☹ :mad: ---
**Author:** ![RobDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f07891/32.png) [@RobDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RobDog)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2014, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-an-md-or-a-phd-do-you-make-people-call-you-doctor-in-social-settings/634798/128 "2014-05-10T11:51:45Z")
> [@adrsz88](#): > > I do have a Ph.D, and yes, I demand others address me as doctor… You are perfectly entitled to demand that I address you as “Doctor”, and I will respond with a graceful and courteous “Piss off”. - This post may indicate that I have no respect for members of the medical profession, or those who have put in the immense amount of hard work and intelligence required to earn most doctorates. This is not the case. ---
**Author:** ![BrightSunshine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b3f665/32.png) [@BrightSunshine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightSunshine)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2014, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-an-md-or-a-phd-do-you-make-people-call-you-doctor-in-social-settings/634798/129 "2014-05-10T12:10:31Z")
> [@KarlGrenze](#): > > See, if I were in a situation were they were going to use titles anyways, I’d rather use my professional title than my marital (or lack of) one. > > I also see it if by chance, the men who were doctors (of any kind) would be called Dr. If the men who can use the Dr. title opted for Mr. instead, I can deal with that and accept being called Ms. But if the men were going to be called Dr., then damn right I would want to be called Dr. too. I’m guessing that is where the woman came from, from situations were the men are given their title, but women are presented by their marital title, even if they have and can use another title. > > She may have sounded defensive, but she probably had sadly at least some experiences like the above. ☹ :mad: I agree. I only got the PhD to avoid being called a Mrs (only half kidding). I once fought an HR department (and lost) to be listed as “Ms” in the directory while unmarried, when their policy was “Miss” only for unmarried women. It is humiliating to be defined by whether one is attached to a man. If marital status is irrelevant for men, it should be irrelevant for women. The lawyer should have asked each individual how they’d like to be addressed, or skip it all together. ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2014, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-an-md-or-a-phd-do-you-make-people-call-you-doctor-in-social-settings/634798/130 "2014-05-10T13:04:36Z")
The only people who I insist on calling me “_doctor_” in a social setting are my wife and kids: Wife: at supermarket: _“oh, Dr. Tibby, squeeze these melons, do they feel good to you?”_ In bed: \*“ohhhh, Dr. Tibby, squeeze these melons, do they feel good to you?” \* Kids: _“Please Dr. daddy, may I have some more…porridge?”_ Alright, what I wrote above is a complete lie, written solely for your comedic pleasure. In fact, I haven’t been in bed with anyone for over a decade (my wife, alas, cannot make that same claim, not by a long shot). In nearly all cases, I prefer informality in both social and professional settings. I encourage my patients to call me whatever they’re comfortable with. If a new patient asks, I typically respond, _“You can call me Tibby; just don’t call me late for dinner.”_ Some call me Dr. Tibby or Dr [first letter or contraction of my last name] and I find that endearing. I actually find being called Dr. [full last name] a little off-putting. The only person in recent memory who irritated me by not addressing me as _“doctor”_ is my wife’s divorce attorney. He [sarcastically] called me “\*mister \*” one too many times at our last case management hearing. The judge got fed up with his bratty shenanigans (not for the first time), and scolded him firmly: _“ **Dr**. Tibby is a board certified surgeon and also a doctor of pharmacy. He put in a lot more time and effort earning his degrees than you did with yours. Address him properly from now on, **Mr.** [ambulance-chaser].”_ I do, indeed, like the cut of his honor’s jib. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2014, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-an-md-or-a-phd-do-you-make-people-call-you-doctor-in-social-settings/634798/131 "2014-05-10T14:48:17Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > You may find yourself behind the wheel of a large automobile. And you may find yourself in a beautiful house, with a beautiful wife And you may ask yourself: well…How did I get here? > Sometimes I tell myself, “This is not my beautiful stapler.” Sometimes I tell myself, "This is not my beautiful chair."And you may ask yourself, “Am I right?..Am I wrong?” And you may say to yourself, “My God!..What have I done?!” Beautifully done. To back up what the UK contingent have been saying, as a student it was mostly first names, with only a few exceptions - and those were for highly, highly respected older faculty members (Peter Higgs was one). Not that they would have insisted on the honorific, but it was a respect thing. The guy who supervised all the Physics undergrad practicals, and did a lot of pastoral work, was known universally as Prof. I think his first name was Keith, but even university notice boards just used Prof. Loads of institutions have someone like that I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Ms\_Boods](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5e9695/32.png) [@Ms\_Boods](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms_Boods)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2014, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-an-md-or-a-phd-do-you-make-people-call-you-doctor-in-social-settings/634798/132 "2014-05-10T18:09:17Z")
> [@yams](#): > > [Flathead Home Educators Assocation?](http://www.fheaonline.org/) > love > yams!! It is now 🙂 (real answer: fellow of the higher education academy. That and 50p will get me a Twix from the school shop.) ---
**Author:** ![crazytooth615](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazytooth615/32/4890_2.png) [@crazytooth615](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crazytooth615)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2014, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-an-md-or-a-phd-do-you-make-people-call-you-doctor-in-social-settings/634798/133 "2014-05-10T18:32:26Z")
If we think back to the origins of why doctors are distinctly addressed in this way, I believe it may have something to do with the way the role of doctors has evolved since the first times they started giving out doctoral degrees. We may imagine that early doctors existed to serve their communities, therefore it would have been helpful to address them publicly as such to ensure people knew who the doctor was, in case they needed him / her? I’m watching the show Deadwood right now, so it reminded me of the 1800’s when a doctor was compensated if he was lucky, but primarily subsisted on his own pride in practice, and he was not paid by the majority of patients. It was this which made him the subject of great respect from others in the community, thus creating the sense of respect shown by referring to the person as Dr. So-and-so, even in a social setting. Today, this makes less sense. People pay to go to the doctor, or their insurance pays, and people with doctorate degrees are pumped out by universities as if they are a commodity. The tremendous hard work and inborn talent it takes to acquire an advanced degree is not in question, but the necessity to give these people special recognition is antiquated. Teachers work very hard, thankless jobs but you don’t see them getting anything added to their name. Finally, I am none of these professions, but I have a friend who earned her doctorate and I now call her Doctor Amy for fun, when I see her or speak after it’s been a while. It’s just for fun, but hey it’s a nod to her achievements in life. She introduces herself as Amy and is very laid back about her title. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2014, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-an-md-or-a-phd-do-you-make-people-call-you-doctor-in-social-settings/634798/134 "2014-05-10T18:49:46Z")
In deference to my mother, I want to note one thing: when a husband and wife both have Ph.Ds do not send them anything in the mail addressed to “Dr. & Mrs.” It’s either “Mr. & Mrs.,” or “The Dr.s” (unless, of course, they have different last names, the Dr. X & Dr. Y). It made my mother so mad to get the “Dr. & Mrs.” crap. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2014, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-an-md-or-a-phd-do-you-make-people-call-you-doctor-in-social-settings/634798/135 "2014-05-10T19:05:51Z")
If someone introduces themselves as Doctor so and so in a setting which makes it difficult to discern what field they’re in, I always ask if they’re a real doctor or one of those medical things. If it turns out they’re an MD I console them with, “That’s nothing to be ashamed of, a lot of people work with their hands.” ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2014, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-an-md-or-a-phd-do-you-make-people-call-you-doctor-in-social-settings/634798/136 "2014-05-10T19:35:25Z")
> [@Bill\_Door](#): > > If someone introduces themselves as Doctor so and so in a setting which makes it difficult to discern what field they’re in, I always ask if they’re a real doctor or one of those medical things. If it turns out they’re an MD I console them with, “That’s nothing to be ashamed of, a lot of people work with their hands.” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2014, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-an-md-or-a-phd-do-you-make-people-call-you-doctor-in-social-settings/634798/137 "2014-05-10T20:24:08Z")
> [@crazytooth615](#): > > …it reminded me of the 1800’s when a doctor was compensated if he was lucky, but primarily subsisted on his own pride in practice, and he was not paid by the majority of patients. Huh, I didn’t know they had Breatharians back in the 1800s. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![BlakeTyner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@BlakeTyner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlakeTyner)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2014, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-an-md-or-a-phd-do-you-make-people-call-you-doctor-in-social-settings/634798/138 "2014-05-11T15:51:54Z")
I’ve been very fortunate that I’ve never, through undergrad, grad school, or as a faculty member, run across anyone who insisted on being called “Dr.” so-and-so. I don’t have a PhD., just a More Asinine, but from a student’s perspective, although I am now friends with many of my former professors (and I work with a couple who taught me,) in private social situations it’s always first-name. However, when I interact with them in front of students, guests, or even on Facebook, I universally call them “Dr.” so-and-so, even though all of them would be fine with just the first name. For me, I want to show respect for not only the academic rigor these people went through, but mainly because they _taught_ me, and continue to teach. It reaffirms, in my line of thinking, the impact they had on me as a person, a teacher, an academic, and a citizen. YMMV, particularly with douchenozzles. ---
**Author:** ![Hippy\_Hollow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hippy_hollow/32/4841_2.png) [@Hippy\_Hollow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hippy_Hollow)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2014, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-an-md-or-a-phd-do-you-make-people-call-you-doctor-in-social-settings/634798/139 "2014-05-11T18:02:33Z")
I see some dismissive discussion about Ed.D degrees. I can’t speak for all Ed.D programs, but I earned mine at the top school of education in the world, and I wrote a high quality dissertation that has been turned into several academic articles. My primary advisor regularly testifies on Capitol Hill on federal financial aid policy, and my secondary has written about 30 books. Some of us are a little sensitive about that. 🙂 I’m an academic so the default for me is “Dr.” or “Professor.” Mind you I don’t introduce myself that way. My uni is in the South and is rather formal; my Ivy alma mater is actually pretty informal. I called all of my profs by their first name (except for the MacArthur Genius grant winner, who is very regal and tends to commands “Professor”). So that was a little weird. When I first earned my doctorate I thought I would never tire of being called Dr. I really don’t care now. I never introduce myself as such - I’m just Hippy, or Hip Hollow. My students call me Dr. Hollow or Dr. Hip which I think is cool. I do tell students they can call me either. It usually takes them a semester for them to do it comfortably, but even then the majority of students call me Dr. and it tends to norm that way for all our faculty. The only thing that feels a little weird is when I get a letter or email calling me “Mr,” and in the same address it says “Associate Professor.” Most tenured academics are doctorate holders. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2014, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-an-md-or-a-phd-do-you-make-people-call-you-doctor-in-social-settings/634798/140 "2014-05-11T18:46:26Z")
> [@Hippy\_Hollow](#): > > I see some dismissive discussion about Ed.D degrees. I can’t speak for all Ed.D programs, but I earned mine at the top school of education in the world, and I wrote a high quality dissertation that has been turned into several academic articles. My primary advisor regularly testifies on Capitol Hill on federal financial aid policy, and my secondary has written about 30 books. > > Some of us are a little sensitive about that. :). I can see why you would be a little sensitive about the comments. It takes significant dedication to achieve what you have. But I think there is a different point being brought up in this discussion. Achieving things is good, but does having achieved whatever you have achieved make you _better_ than someone? When Doctor is used in a professional context it has a practical and significant meaning relevant to situation. If someone insists on being called Doctor outside of that setting it is difficult to see any reason for this other than to signify some sort of social superiority. This is problematic on two fronts, first I think many people feel (as I do) that trying to use your achievements to put yourself above others is petty and immature. Secondly, and this speaks to your point more; the term Doctor signifies a broad range of things - many of which do not even begin to put someone in any sort of superior income bracket. and also do not signify any greater acheivement than many things that do not lead to one being called doctor. It may be different in other places, but in the US, although education is highly valued and respected, if you try to claim any sort of social superiority you need some serious assets to back it up - otherwise people will generally think you are a buffoon or just arrogant and a little out of touch with reality. FTR My father has a Phd. We were comfortable, but but we definately did not have the wealth most of the engineers and accountants in the area, and we could not afford to live in the areas where the wealthy businessmen lived. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-an-md-or-a-phd-do-you-make-people-call-you-doctor-in-social-settings/634798.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-an-md-or-a-phd-do-you-make-people-call-you-doctor-in-social-settings/634798.md?page=8)