# You. Have. GOT. to be kidding me. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 5, 2005, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-got-to-be-kidding-me/334206 "2005-12-05T18:04:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-got-to-be-kidding-me/334206/21 "2005-12-06T17:39:42Z")
> [@Philster](#): > > Help me understand. Who should make the vests? Thank goodness an entreprenuer exists who can provide the vests, cause it’d suck it free enterprise were squashed and we had no vests. As long as it was all sold through competitive bids, I have no problem with him making money. But it’s still an illustration on just how expensive this war is, and where all that money is going. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-got-to-be-kidding-me/334206/22 "2005-12-06T17:41:42Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > Except he’s a bulletproof vest manufacturer who got rich off the Iraq War. Our tax dollars at work… Are there a lot of bulletproof vests used in the Army? I thought they were mostly used by the police. In any event, [Ferengi Rule of Aquisition]War is good for business, followed by Peace is good for business[/FROA] I suppose you feel the same about the tank manufacturers, and those who produce the weapons? They should just beat their swords into plowshares and throw rotten tomatoes at the enemy? ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-got-to-be-kidding-me/334206/23 "2005-12-06T17:43:12Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > As long as it was all sold through competitive bids, I have no problem with him making money. But it’s still an illustration on just how expensive this war is, and where all that money is going. Yes, apparently, back into the economy, via the florists and the caterers and the limo drivers, etc. Yeesh, what do you guys have against making money? ---
**Author:** ![Ghanima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Ghanima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ghanima)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-got-to-be-kidding-me/334206/24 "2005-12-06T17:45:20Z")
I feel sorry for this girl. I’d be very sad now (at 31) to realize that the high point of my life was a party thrown for me when I was 13. Hopefully she has more depth to her than her father seems to (btw - pink suede biker outfit?!?! WTF?), and can appreciate more than just what money can buy. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-got-to-be-kidding-me/334206/25 "2005-12-06T17:51:41Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > Yes, apparently, back into the economy, via the florists and the caterers and the limo drivers, etc. How much are they getting paid, compared to the aforementioned musicians? Compared to the money _not_ spent by this guy? > [@](#): > > Yeesh, what do you guys have against making money? I don’t. I have a problem with wasteful and unnecessary government spending. (And by that I mean the whole war is a wasteful and unnecessary excercise.) ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-got-to-be-kidding-me/334206/26 "2005-12-06T17:55:12Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > How much are they getting paid, compared to the aforementioned musicians? Compared to the money _not_ spent by this guy? What earthly difference does that make? How much would they be paid if this guy had given his daughter a CD player for her bar mitzvah instead of a huge party? > [@](#): > > I don’t. I have a problem with wasteful and unnecessary government spending. (And by that I mean the whole war is a wasteful and unnecessary excercise.) If indeed he did make his money producing bulletproof vests for the military, I doubt the soldiers would quibble over how much the manufacturere was paid. Besides, how do you know the guy isn’t making other items for the private sector? Or that he donates to charity? You’re painting with a wide brush there, my friend, simply because this man was able to produce a product the Army needed. ---
**Author:** ![Malodorous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Malodorous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malodorous)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-got-to-be-kidding-me/334206/27 "2005-12-06T17:56:36Z")
It’s just weird cause its hard to understand why someone would do this. Thirteen was a long time ago, but from my memory the average 13 year old girl would be just as happy if he’d hired a petting zoo, pony rides and maybe a clown or two. Give me a million dollars and I can make a party that will please the average 13 year old and her friends and relatives about as much as a 10 million dollar one. I don’t think this money was spent to make his daughter happy. Instead it’s a rather gauche display of wealth and power to impress his friends and enemies. Of course people can do this sort of thing if they want, but I don’t have a lot of respect for someone who would turn a religious ceremony honoring their daughthers adulthood into a chest chumping glorification of thier own success. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-got-to-be-kidding-me/334206/28 "2005-12-06T18:10:26Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > If indeed he did make his money producing bulletproof vests for the military, I doubt the soldiers would quibble over how much the manufacturere was paid. Besides, how do you know the guy isn’t making other items for the private sector? This is probably a biased [source](http://www.commondreams.org/views05/1201-30.htm), but for what it’s worth: "David H. Brooks, CEO of bulletproof vest maker DHB Industries, earned $70 million in 2004, 13,349 percent more than his pre-9/11 compensation, according to ‘Executive Excess,’ co-published by the Institute for Policy Studies and United for a Fair Economy. On top of that, Brooks sold company stock worth about $186 million last year, spooking investors who drove DHB’s share price from more than $22 to as low as $6.50. “Shareholders were mighty ticked, but what makes Brooks’ $250 million in war windfalls particularly obscene is that the equipment which boosted his fortunes appears not to work very well. In May 2005, the US Marines recalled more than 5,000 DHB armored vests after questions were raised about their effectiveness in stopping 9 mm bullets. In November, the Marines and Army announced a recall of an additional 18,000 DHB vests.” ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-got-to-be-kidding-me/334206/29 "2005-12-06T18:11:15Z")
OK, I have no beef with someone who has the money to throw a big ass party for their child. Lord knows, I’d throw a killer b’day for my kids if I did. But let’s face facts and talk about the real effect this shining example of free market capitalism enrichment concept: In this example, Daddy Warbucks jsut spent $10M: A grand party is thrown. about $4M is going to the entertainment. OK, besides the artists, you’ve got some crew, management, and a few extras. Pretty much all these people are touring and making money and already have these employees in place. No real new job creation there (except maybe a bit of local sound crew types - and it’s just a one day job) That leaves $6M I have utterly no idea how the rest of the money was spent, other than there was likely a place rented, some catering, a florist and maybe a few parting gifts. While this was certainly a very, very good day of business for a small handful of businesses, it’s not like they get this kind of gig every day, so they likely won’t be hiring any new permanent employees as a result of this gig. So while they got a very nice chunk of money and will no doubt spend at least some of it locally, I would venture that no new jobs were created as a result of this party. On the other hand, $10M could pay 200 people $50K for a year. It’s enough to start a small business, enough to keep an existing small business afloat for quite some time, enough to earn, in interest alone, a comfortable middle class income for more than one family. But this isn’t Altruistic World, and nobody should be expected to spend their money any other way than as they damn well please. So this excercise is nearly moot, but… The “capitalism” benefit angle on throwing one big party doesn’t really do much, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-got-to-be-kidding-me/334206/30 "2005-12-06T18:33:48Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > I miss the good old days when rich people stayed hidden in their estates on the hill. Rich people used to flaunt their money. Till the Depression scared the piss out them. Raise the top tax rate back up to 70% and I promise they’ll hide themselves away again. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-got-to-be-kidding-me/334206/31 "2005-12-06T18:36:28Z")
You’re forgetting the non-monetary benefits. If the caterers, limo drivers, et al, did a good job, if Brooks liked what they did, then the word of mouth will get around and they’ll be hired again for other parties. I’m not going to get into a debate about economics, but it’s been proven time and again that if you want to increase revenue and grow the economy, you have to cut taxes. So raising them to 70% will have a chilling effect and people will start going out of business and getting laid off. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-got-to-be-kidding-me/334206/32 "2005-12-06T18:38:23Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > … but it’s been proven time and again that if you want to increase revenue and grow the economy, you have to cut taxes. And increased government spending (including defense spending) is inconsistent with that goal. ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-got-to-be-kidding-me/334206/33 "2005-12-06T18:55:26Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > Except he’s a bulletproof vest manufacturer who got rich off the Iraq War. Our tax dollars at work… You should do your homework, my friend. He got rich way before the Iraq War. His corporation has been selling body armor for a lot of years to a lot of law enforcement agencies. In fact, I’m wearing his product at this very moment. Point Blank and P.A.C.A body armor are DHB offshoots, and there’s no doubt that he gobbled up market share after 2nd Chance faltered after some serious equipment malfunctions. As for the Bat Mitzvah, it’s a shame and a disgrace in my opinion, but it IS his money… ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-got-to-be-kidding-me/334206/34 "2005-12-06T19:16:30Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > And increased government spending (including defense spending) is inconsistent with that goal. I’m with you on uncontrolled gov’t spending (can we say, Bridge to Nowhere?) but in wartime I will not begrudge our men and women in uniform the supplies and material they need. ---
**Author:** ![UntouchedTakeaway](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d78d45/32.png) [@UntouchedTakeaway](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UntouchedTakeaway)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-got-to-be-kidding-me/334206/35 "2005-12-06T19:27:21Z")
This party was for the _dad_ - are you kiddin’? 😃 I _was_ kinda disappointed in Tom Petty - but $$ is $$, I guess. VCNJ~ ---
**Author:** ![groman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/73ab20/32.png) [@groman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/groman)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2005, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-got-to-be-kidding-me/334206/36 "2005-12-07T00:01:42Z")
> [@Malodorous](#): > > Thirteen was a long time ago, but from my memory the average 13 year old girl would be just as happy if he’d hired a petting zoo, pony rides and maybe a clown or two. Give me a million dollars and I can make a party that will please the average 13 year old and her friends and relatives about as much as a 10 million dollar one. I don’t think this money was spent to make his daughter happy. Instead it’s a rather gauche display of wealth and power to impress his friends and enemies. I don’t think you know modern 13 year olds that well, or maybe I don’t. I don’t know if it’s typical, but my experience spans two continents and being part of the “child” generation. It might be a problem with people I associate with, but I’ve seen enough people to generalize. When I turned 13 is the time girls my age began experimenting with sex, drugs and alcohol. This was in Russia, and I’d say quarter to a half of my female classmates smoked and drank, some did drugs. Fast forward to the US, I’m in american high school, a public high school but in the top 10 in the state. A lot less smoking and drinking, a lot more pot and sex among the 14-15 year old crowd. I just don’t think that for most 13 year olds any party chaperoned by parents is going to be any fun. YMMV, but if you’re not prepared to provide a bunch of booze and leave, you’re better off not trying to throw a fun party for a bunch of teenagers. A bat-mitzvah is an important ceremony, it’s a little different though… ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2005, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-got-to-be-kidding-me/334206/37 "2005-12-07T02:49:47Z")
> [@Philster](#): > > So, a bullet proof vest manufacturer should do WHAT? Exactly what should he do? NOT make the vests or NOT make the profit? > > Help me understand. Who should make the vests? Thank goodness an entreprenuer exists who can provide the vests, cause it’d suck it free enterprise were squashed and we had no vests. > > The war is a shit hole, but it’d be a worse shit hole if we were equipped like the scum balls in countries where there isn’t free enterprise. > > NEXT UP: we condem them makers of parachutes, ejector seats and antibiotics, because they keep soldiers alive. No matter how obscenely high the markups, no matter how blatant the profiteering, our boys must have vests! There is NO other way! It’s unpatriotic to think about things like whether or not a contractor is soaking the government when there’s a WAR on, people! Think of the childr… er, the soldiers! ---
**Author:** ![groman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/73ab20/32.png) [@groman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/groman)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2005, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-got-to-be-kidding-me/334206/38 "2005-12-07T02:54:08Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > No matter how obscenely high the markups, no matter how blatant the profiteering, our boys must have vests! There is NO other way! It’s unpatriotic to think about things like whether or not a contractor is soaking the government when there’s a WAR on, people! Think of the childr… er, the soldiers! I think the point is that once the money changes hands once after being “Taxpayers Money”, it shouldn’t really matter where it’s going. The government spent it on vests. Ok, you can contest that, but you can’t really contest the vest guy spending it on Aerosmith, that’s frankly none of your business. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2005, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-got-to-be-kidding-me/334206/39 "2005-12-07T02:58:22Z")
I thought a Bat Mitzvah was supposed to be about growing up and becoming a woman. Isn’t it a religious thing? 10 fucking million? Jesus Christ. ---
**Author:** ![Jurhael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/cab0a1/32.png) [@Jurhael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jurhael)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2005, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-got-to-be-kidding-me/334206/40 "2005-12-07T05:31:50Z")
> [@](#): > > Ok, you can contest that, but you can’t really contest the vest guy spending it on Aerosmith, that’s frankly none of your business. He has every right to be critical of it just like someone has the right to spend a ton of money if they have it. Nothing is immune to someone speaking out against something. As for me, it’s best to simply not care about things and people like this. Believe me, they WANT you to care because it’s all about ego. Show indifference and it will more than likely upset them more than any negative attention ever will. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-got-to-be-kidding-me/334206.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-got-to-be-kidding-me/334206.md?page=3)