# You have GOT to be Kidding Me **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [November 25, 2018, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-got-to-be-kidding-me/825057 "2018-11-25T15:23:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2018, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-got-to-be-kidding-me/825057/21 "2018-11-25T18:03:19Z")
The reason why we have rules against posters calling other posters trolls (outside of the Pit) is because the proper response to trolling is disciplinary action. Which moderators can give. Moderators can, may, and do, therefore, say that people are trolling when issuing disciplinary action for trolling. As in this case. I’m not sure why this would be difficult to understand. ---
**Author:** ![BeenJammin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beenjammin/32/448_2.png) [@BeenJammin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeenJammin)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2018, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-got-to-be-kidding-me/825057/22 "2018-11-25T18:07:32Z")
Because there is no trolling here, only liberal indignation. And corresponding censorship. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2018, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-got-to-be-kidding-me/825057/23 "2018-11-25T18:08:01Z")
> [@BeenJammin](#): > > Not being a narcisstic bastard posting to puff my intellectual chest compels me to refrain. **Moderator Note** Since this appears to be a jab at posters with contrary opinions to your own, it’s pretty trollish and jerkish itself. Remain civil in this forum or you may be subject to a warning. For the record, **IvoryTowerDenizen** is female. Colibri ---
**Author:** ![BeenJammin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beenjammin/32/448_2.png) [@BeenJammin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeenJammin)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2018, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-got-to-be-kidding-me/825057/24 "2018-11-25T18:12:38Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > **Moderator Note** Since this appears to be a jab at posters with contrary opinions to your own, it’s pretty trollish and jerkish itself. My view and intention on that was informing said poster I was not responding to his line of questioning any further. If it came across a brash and impolite that was intended as well, because said poster was obviously attempting to derail the thread. ITD’s sex is irrelevant. My ignorance on that topic is hereby abolished, FWIW. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2018, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-got-to-be-kidding-me/825057/25 "2018-11-25T18:22:58Z")
> [@BeenJammin](#): > > Because there is no trolling here, only liberal indignation. And corresponding censorship. There is definitely a double standard at play. Of course since you won’t be able to find an **exactly** identical post directed at a non liberal celebrity/politician you’ll see nothing but denial. Was it an ugly comment? Yes. But no uglier than the millions of comments directed at republicans, conservatives, or others that don’t conform to the majority ideology on this board. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2018, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-got-to-be-kidding-me/825057/26 "2018-11-25T18:31:01Z")
> [@Are you happy that Trump is President?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-happy-that-trump-is-president/825028/36): > > … propagating racist and transphobic imagery. > [@raventhief](#): > > …Michelle is the one I’ve heard certain people call a man in a dress, even though I think she is gorgeous. I haven’t heard anyone say Hillary is really a man… > [@John\_Mace](#): > > …I would have called misogynist since I think it was a jab at Hillary, not Michelle… > [@bucketybuck](#): > > …it was racist and deserved action to be taken. I’m not sure what I’m missing here, but these accusations of racism/misogyny/transphobia make no sense at all to me. The obvious interpretation of the joke is that if Hillary had been elected, Bill Clinton (who has a penis) would be “First Lady”. It’s just a silly joke, it’s an extreme stretch to interpret it as bigotry, and I don’t see how on earth it merits a warning. ---
**Author:** ![BeenJammin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beenjammin/32/448_2.png) [@BeenJammin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeenJammin)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2018, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-got-to-be-kidding-me/825057/27 "2018-11-25T18:35:55Z")
Colibri’s opinion on my attitude with Czarcasm is interesting. “Appearance” being used an the portal of entry for arbitrary judgments in the vein of rule interpretation to support banning is remarkably consistent. The reins are tight on conservatives. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2018, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-got-to-be-kidding-me/825057/28 "2018-11-25T18:46:53Z")
If it means that Michelle Obama and/or Hillary Clinton has a penis, then it’s transphobic because it’s considering it an insult to say that they have a penis, and it’s sexist because it’s criticizing women on grounds that wouldn’t be applied to men. If it means that Bill Clinton has a penis, then it’s transphobic because it’s calling him a lady, and sexist because it means the person making the statement is glad that we don’t have a woman as president, for the simple reason that she’s a woman. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2018, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-got-to-be-kidding-me/825057/29 "2018-11-25T18:47:06Z")
> [@BeenJammin](#): > > My view and intention on that was informing said poster I was not responding to his line of questioning any further. If it came across a brash and impolite that was intended as well, because said poster was obviously attempting to derail the thread. Moderator Warning I said you came across as jerkish and trollish, not “brash and impolite.” And since you’ve confirmed that your remark was directed at a specific poster, rather than being a general jab at those who disagreed with you, and that this was deliberate, I think we can up this to a warning for insults. Calling someone a “narcisstic bastard” wouldn’t be permitted anywhere outside the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![BeenJammin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beenjammin/32/448_2.png) [@BeenJammin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeenJammin)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2018, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-got-to-be-kidding-me/825057/30 "2018-11-25T18:50:53Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > I said you came across as jerkish and trollish, not “brash and impolite.” PotAto Potato. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2018, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-got-to-be-kidding-me/825057/31 "2018-11-25T18:51:57Z")
He was being kind with “appears” since you were indisputably and undeniably taking a “jab at posters with contrary opinions to your own” when you said “Not being a narcisstic bastard posting to puff my intellectual chest…” Acting like a jerk in an ATMB thread about a warning someone got for acting like jerk does not prove you’re being oppressed when you’re called out on it. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2018, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-got-to-be-kidding-me/825057/32 "2018-11-25T18:56:14Z")
I’ve been traveling today and haven’t had a chance to reply, or even read the whole thread. There is a long standing theory, put forth by Alex Jones, that Michelle Obama is male. That is clearly what was being referenced. That is in part due to, what is claimed to be, Michelle Obama’s strong “masculine” features. That descriptor is more often attached to African American women that Caucasian women. This theory has been floated around for quite a while and shows up regularly, along with monkey imagery for Pres Obama, Michelle, and their children. That conspiracy theory is nasty and racist, with some good transphobia thrown in. It was a jerkish thing to say. I didn’t call the poster a troll, but that his post was trolling, since he admitted it was a joke, clearly to rile folks up. I took no issue with the other items on his list, so this isn’t a conservative vs liberal moderation issue. And I’m a her. I’m heading into a show soon, so won’t be on much. Hope this satisfies as much as anything will. ---
**Author:** ![BeenJammin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beenjammin/32/448_2.png) [@BeenJammin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeenJammin)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2018, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-got-to-be-kidding-me/825057/33 "2018-11-25T18:59:14Z")
If you don’t want to engage, don’t. Inventing politically rationalized reasons for squelching discourse to prevent others from expressing views is… ?. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2018, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-got-to-be-kidding-me/825057/34 "2018-11-25T19:03:39Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > If it means that Michelle Obama and/or Hillary Clinton has a penis… This would be a bizarre interpretation, imo. It seems obvious to me that the joke is targeted at Bill Clinton in the traditional “First Lady” role. > [@Chronos](#): > > If it means that Bill Clinton has a penis, then it’s transphobic because it’s calling him a lady, and sexist because it means the person making the statement is glad that we don’t have a woman as president, for the simple reason that she’s a woman. With all due respect, this seems to me to be extreme over-interpretation and offense-seeking over a silly joke. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2018, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-got-to-be-kidding-me/825057/35 "2018-11-25T19:03:40Z")
> [@BeenJammin](#): > > If you don’t want to engage, don’t. Inventing politically rationalized reasons for squelching discourse to prevent others from expressing views is… ?. … not what’s happening. Do I get a prize for the giving the right answer? ---
**Author:** ![BeenJammin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beenjammin/32/448_2.png) [@BeenJammin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeenJammin)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2018, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-got-to-be-kidding-me/825057/36 "2018-11-25T19:06:51Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Hope this satisfies as much as anything will. Totally un-satisfied. > [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > There is a long standing theory, put forth by Alex Jones,… So you were pre-disposed to view any combination of words with the terms penis and 1st lady in that context? > [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > I didn’t call the poster a troll, but that his post was trolling,… Sorry, but I am unclear on the distinction between being a troll and the act of trolling. > [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > since he admitted it was a joke, clearly to rile folks up. Big flyin’ forking deal! It’s politics for chrissakes. I’m looking for a retraction of the penis poster’s warning. I’ll take all I can get. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2018, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-got-to-be-kidding-me/825057/37 "2018-11-25T19:09:31Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > There is a long standing theory, put forth by Alex Jones, that Michelle Obama is male. That is clearly what was being referenced. Far from clear to me. I’ve also seen people (and not just on the right) joking in various ways about Bill Clinton in the traditional “First Lady” role. That’s the far more natural interpretation of the comment to me, and I think inferring malice and bigotry from the _least_ generous interpretation of a comment (one that assumes that the poster is aligned with the views of a moron) is pretty dubious. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2018, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-got-to-be-kidding-me/825057/38 "2018-11-25T19:09:44Z")
> [@BeenJammin](#): > > If you don’t want to engage, don’t. Inventing politically rationalized reasons for squelching discourse to prevent others from expressing views is… ?. Regardless of how it is interpreted, I am at a loss to understand how “giving America a First Lady who doesn’t have a penis” can be construed by anyone as reasonable political discourse. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2018, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-got-to-be-kidding-me/825057/39 "2018-11-25T19:12:19Z")
> [@BeenJammin](#): > > Inventing politically rationalized reasons for squelching discourse to prevent others from expressing views is… ?. … a silly way to describe what happened when someone said "“Giving America a First Lady who doesn’t have a penis.” ---
**Author:** ![Wolf333](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf333/32/3460_2.png) [@Wolf333](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolf333)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2018, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-got-to-be-kidding-me/825057/40 "2018-11-25T19:17:19Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > I’m not sure what I’m missing here, but these accusations of racism/misogyny/transphobia make no sense at all to me. The obvious interpretation of the joke is that if Hillary had been elected, Bill Clinton (who has a penis) would be “First Lady”. It’s just a silly joke, it’s an extreme stretch to interpret it as bigotry, and I don’t see how on earth it merits a warning. There’s a right wing meme that Michelle Obama is a man. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-got-to-be-kidding-me/825057.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-have-got-to-be-kidding-me/825057.md?page=3)