Pretty much every ruler spiess on his subjects, especially his political enemies. Heck, I’d probably do it, if I were in that position of power. It’d give me ammunition, and them pause.
I was thinking that Greenpeace and PETA would be likely aiders and abettors to ALF and ELF. You watch them just like you would watch an Aryan Nations type group. Of course, if they are ‘monkeywrenching’, then they have already journied a long way towards being just as bad as ALF or ELF.
Spare us from “realists.” See this thread: http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=352868
I disagree. While I certainly understand and appreciate both the theoretical idea of society-as-network and the practical ability to conduct my own “investigations”, until and unless one actively participates – either by idle acceptence or active action – one is not a member of the “us” in which you include yourself. It is the same with any group of people, be they sports fans, members of a particular religious faith, ravers, etc. You are taking the adolescent (but all too common) perspective of “everyone (I know) is doing it, so it must be OK.”
While I may think your point of view is wrong or bad, I’m not saying that it’s stupid; it does seem to be the direction in which we’re headed. Perhaps if transparency were an actuality, the encroachments on our privacy wouldn’t be such a loss. However, anyone who believes things will work out that way is even more prone to tilting at windmills than I. As you implicitly admit, one needs the connections, position of authority, or money to even gain access, much less reap the benefits. Transparency won’t happen unless there is a gain to be had by those setting up the system and I just don’t see any.
Upon rereading the thread, I find:
That first half is kinda, sorta right – it isn’t a “huge affront to privacy and liberty”, but rather a death of a thousand cuts. The other half may or may not be right; it seems too soon to tell. But, IMO, it is worth appearing a hysterical ninny in an effort to convince, cajole, and possibly counteract policies that can lead to potential abuses. “Big Brother” is a distinct possibility and the wet dream of authoritarians. If one is not actively promoting the erosion of privacy, passive acceptence, while the easiest path to take, is also the worst.
Although I suppose that at least one can take solace in, as mswas puts it, being “a number floating in a mass of other data”, as pitiful an excuse for privacy as it may be. At least until your number comes up.
If enough common folk see transparency as a crucial need, they’ll find ways to get it legislated into place. The same goes with restrictions against abuses of secrecy.
Warms the cockles of my heart, that does. But I don’t see it as a legitimate possibility. IMO, to become a “crucial need”, there have to be direct and substantial impacts on people. By the time it gets to that point, privacy is already lost.
And that’s ignoring the cynical part of me that wants to say that you give too much credence to the legistlative influence of “common folk”.
My take - what can a law abiding, honest person do / know / say that is so private, on a governmental level?
What about your health? The government has the need to protect the citizenry.
What about your financial situation? Your supposed to make disclosure concerning tax anyway?
What about your romantic life? Who gives a fig who you a “shtumping”, except maybe your spouse, and i doubt some low level aide in the third ring of the pentagon is going to call your wife and let her know you think the Starbucks girl would look great covered in whipped cream and cinnimin.
What about your kids grades? The tests scores of the IQ test you took drunk as hell on new years eve online? The brand of shampoo you prefer?
No, there is a remaining bit or secrecy, but what TRUELY deserves such privacy?
i would soy info as far as identity theft prevention, but this is information that a high school sophmore can do as much or more damage to you with than the government is going to. Heck, they can freeze your accounts anyway WITHOUT knowing anything more than you having them. So what if they know how much money you have. IT IS THEIRS, THEY PRINTED IT, THEY ONLY LET YOU USE IT TO BUY MORE GOODS THAT THEY CAN TAX YOU ON.
Also, I think this whole NSA thing is WAY OVERBLOWN. I think that people being either by nature exhibitionists or voyeurs, they WISH they were important enough to be spied on.
Actually, I think that ANY orginization that has a single member within the country, or a territory, or the land of one of our allies should be subject to monitering. Hell, the British KNEW we were getting pissed off, and we still won independance.
Moral of the rant; Trust no one you don’t have to, and NEVER write, say, or possibly even think anything you don’t want someone to use against you at any point in your life.
Welcome to democracy. Aint’ it great? We’ll come to your country and force it on you if we have to, just to make sure your free. As long as it is by our definition.
I understand your cynicism. While I don’t completely dispute it, when people get screwed badly enough, long enough, they do do something about it over time. Civil rights, women’s rights, current rights to privacy and such all came into place once enough was enough. Current technology also can empower individuals and small groups in wasy unavailable to common people in the past.
Our apathy is borne of comfort. If circumstances come regarding privacy that threatens to remove that comfort, people will take action. Of course, there is a good chance that you are quite correct that such circumstances won’t occur.
But I’m betting that a growing gap between the haves & have-nots in our society could be the wedge that pisses lots of people off. If current NSA abuses are shown to have been used against the Democratic party, at least half the people that vote in this country may sit up and take action. Probably greater numbers than that.
Nor am I not sure that all is lost yet regarding privacy. It’s hard to keep up with technology to the point that I’m not certain anyone really has their heads wrapped around it yet. In other words, there are likely to be new technological end runs around some abuses. I’m also confident that patriots who work within the system will not stand for gross abuses as seen by the NSA whistleblowers.