# You heartless bitch. You used your religion to ruin your son's wedding day. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 30, 2003, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-heartless-bitch-you-used-your-religion-to-ruin-your-sons-wedding-day/185343 "2003-06-30T14:15:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2003, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-heartless-bitch-you-used-your-religion-to-ruin-your-sons-wedding-day/185343/41 "2003-06-30T21:26:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CrazyCatLady \* > \*\*Why couldn’t you go to the wedding, **zev**? \*\* Intermarraige is a _big_ no-no among Orthodox Jews (and many others as well). Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2003, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-heartless-bitch-you-used-your-religion-to-ruin-your-sons-wedding-day/185343/42 "2003-06-30T22:43:16Z")
You’re Jewish, **Zev**? {ducks, runs, trips, gets up, runs some more, reaches a back alley, leans against wall panting heavily} ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2003, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-heartless-bitch-you-used-your-religion-to-ruin-your-sons-wedding-day/185343/43 "2003-06-30T22:54:18Z")
Sooo…is it a doctrinal thing, or a personal choice not to attend weddings where one of the people involved isn’t Jewish? And how broad is the definition of intermarriage? Could you attend a wedding where one person is Jewish but not Orthodox, or does it only count as intermarriage if they’re not Jewish at all? ---
**Author:** ![Audrey\_Levins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/73ab20/32.png) [@Audrey\_Levins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Audrey_Levins)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2003, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-heartless-bitch-you-used-your-religion-to-ruin-your-sons-wedding-day/185343/44 "2003-06-30T23:13:05Z")
You have frightened me, **Bruce\_Daddy.** I will be getting married in the spring, and just last month I basically told my mother that if she didn’t go, I’d have nothing to do with her. I have postponed my wedding for almost five years, trying to iron things out with my parents so that they would go. Mr. Levins is Hispanic. He is Catholic. My parents are classic West Texas racists; they were raised Baptist and converted to Presbyterianism as adults, and now I don’t know what they call themselves, but whatever religion they adhere at any given time, it’s always clear that it’s against God’s rules to intermarry with Other Colors/Races/Religions. (They’ve even stated, very baldly, that they want only white grandchildren. Because we all know white babies are the prettiest kind. Right, Audrey?) :rolleyes: I had no idea they felt so strongly about it until I announced my intentions of doing so. I thought they’d get over it. I gave them FIVE FUCKING YEARS. And my mother, last month, promised that she’d go. After stating that she “couldn’t,” I basically made it clear what life would be like if she didn’t. She capitulated. I thought it was a step in the right direction. And now I picture your poor friend **John** , and I wonder if perhaps I made a mistake. I wonder if perhaps strong-arming your parents into going to something they don’t approve of can only set the stage for potential disaster. Because I can see my mother crying in the front row, just like John’s mother. And they won’t be happy tears, either. I can see it both hurting and angering me beyond all reason. Did I just make a huge mistake? ---
**Author:** ![lezlers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-heartless-bitch-you-used-your-religion-to-ruin-your-sons-wedding-day/185343/45 "2003-07-01T00:46:32Z")
So **Zen,** Are you going to shun your cousin and his/her wife/husband? Do they even talk to you anymore? I’m sorry, but I’ve got no paitence for people that engage in such petty behaviors. There’s no excuse. ---
**Author:** ![lezlers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-heartless-bitch-you-used-your-religion-to-ruin-your-sons-wedding-day/185343/46 "2003-07-01T00:50:09Z")
Zen, I’m sorry for my previous post, I attempted to edit it after realizing it came across as way bitchier than I intended, but it already went through. Please disregard it. I do have some questions for you (if you don’t mind answering on this thread, I realize it’s a hijack- if you’d prefer, I’d love an email) Would you refuse to attend one of your children’s weddings, if they were to marry a non-orthodox Jew? I’m also curious as to the reasoning behind it being a _big no no_. There’s really no nice way to ask this, but: how are you okay with being part of a religion that dictates who you can and cannot love and/or marry? ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-heartless-bitch-you-used-your-religion-to-ruin-your-sons-wedding-day/185343/47 "2003-07-01T00:56:51Z")
_Sigh_ I didn’t want to make this thread about me. I just wanted to make the point that in the OP the mother should have stated her objections ahead of time and not done so at the wedding. At least that would have given the couple the option of telling her to either come, shut up and not ruin the party for everyone else or else don’t come. She should not have created a scene 15 minutes before her son’s wedding was to begin. However, in answer to your questions (and please don’t follow up, I really don’t want to hijack this thread)… **lezlers** , Yes, we talk to each other. We do not shun one another. My cousin’s wife is a very nice woman. It was simply a religious objection to the marriage. I did not make an attempt to stop them from getting married in any way, nor did I wish any harm on the couple. It was simply a religious decision, that was all. I’m sorry that you find my deeply-held religious beliefs petty. I certainly wasn’t about to impose my beliefs on my cousin, but I don’t think they should be allowed to impose theirs on me by forcing me to attend, no? If you still really feel that way about me, then you are free to open up a thread in the Pit. **CrazyCatLady** : The determining factor is if they are Jewish at all. The level of observance is not important in this regard. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![summerbreeze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3bc359/32.png) [@summerbreeze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/summerbreeze)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-heartless-bitch-you-used-your-religion-to-ruin-your-sons-wedding-day/185343/48 "2003-07-01T02:15:32Z")
**featherlou** , you are so together. Nothing went wrong at my wedding except the marriage (I’ll visit your thread). We shun the hateful aunt and uncle, while pitying them. I did speak to their priest after they clacked rosaries and mumbled Hail Marys at my son’s Presbyterian funeral. (They were not blocked from attending simply because we had other things on our minds that terrible day.) He said they were “faithful members of the flock with fervent beliefs about salvation.” I said, “Father, me fucking too.” ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-heartless-bitch-you-used-your-religion-to-ruin-your-sons-wedding-day/185343/49 "2003-07-01T03:47:25Z")
I like the way this thread’s gone. The stupid bitch who was whining about the couple’s wedding is the one taken to task. Now, not so long ago, 'twas the stupid bitch who was being held up as the heroine. ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-heartless-bitch-you-used-your-religion-to-ruin-your-sons-wedding-day/185343/50 "2003-07-01T03:58:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Audrey Levins \* > \*\*You have frightened me, **Bruce\_Daddy.** > > Did I just make a huge mistake? \*\* Audrey! How in the heck did you turn out so normal and everything coming from that twisted DNA? I wouldn’t give them 5 years to straighten out. You are much kinder than me. ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-heartless-bitch-you-used-your-religion-to-ruin-your-sons-wedding-day/185343/51 "2003-07-01T04:02:59Z")
On second thought, Audrey, for your wedding, maybe you should have the \*\*Straight Dope Gay Mafia, Latino Rhythm Section, Black Pride, Jewish Illuminati, Pagan Pom Pom Brigade and Asian Marching Band \*\*sit all around your parents at the wedding. WHAT fun! ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-heartless-bitch-you-used-your-religion-to-ruin-your-sons-wedding-day/185343/52 "2003-07-01T04:04:10Z")
oh, add a ™ after that title. It’s mine. I own it. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-heartless-bitch-you-used-your-religion-to-ruin-your-sons-wedding-day/185343/53 "2003-07-01T04:06:48Z")
> [@](#): > > the Straight Dope Gay Mafia, Latino Rhythm Section, Black Pride, Jewish Illuminati, Pagan Pom Pom Brigade and Asian Marching Band _cymbals_ Be _kind_ to your _web_-footed _friends_ For a _duck_ may be _some_body’s _mo_-ther… _tuba_ ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-heartless-bitch-you-used-your-religion-to-ruin-your-sons-wedding-day/185343/54 "2003-07-01T04:16:00Z")
I sincerely hope she’s his ex-mother. If mine had pulled a stunt like that, the only time she would ever hear my voice again would be to dial my number and listen to the answering machine. ---
**Author:** ![Flowerchild](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/858c86/32.png) [@Flowerchild](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flowerchild)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-heartless-bitch-you-used-your-religion-to-ruin-your-sons-wedding-day/185343/55 "2003-07-01T06:32:03Z")
I saw the same situation on Dr. phil. Damn peoples damn attwntion whore mothers!!! ::End Hijack:: ---
**Author:** ![Zenster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/cdc98d/32.png) [@Zenster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenster)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-heartless-bitch-you-used-your-religion-to-ruin-your-sons-wedding-day/185343/56 "2003-07-01T06:38:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by astro \* > Well strategically it was a bonehead move, and not to be sexist, but it was especially stupid for the MIL to do this to the bride. > > After marriage who do you think usually initiates, controls, schedules and mediates the vast majority of interaction with family members on both sides. Hint… it’s _not_ the husband. > > By POing the wife the MIL has effectively sliced her prospective “grandkid” access time to bare minimum levels if she gets any at all. What went around will come around in this case and it will likely come around with a vengenace. Bravo, **astro**. Can everybody say, “Lonely Granny?” Pulling this sort of crap on your child’s wedding day is simply outrageous. How self-absorbed and childish of her to do so. I don’t think I’d want my children to be around such a bad role model. I certainly won’t blame the bride if she feels that way too. PS: Er … **lezlers** , that’s **Zev** and not **Zen**. ---
**Author:** ![red\_dragon60](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ce73a5/32.png) [@red\_dragon60](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/red_dragon60)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-heartless-bitch-you-used-your-religion-to-ruin-your-sons-wedding-day/185343/57 "2003-07-01T06:41:35Z")
Something makes me think that religion may have been a convenient excuse. I have no idea what your friend’s relationship is with his mother, but I could see a plausible situation where a mother was just not ready or willing to give up their son and couldn’t face not being the most important woman in their life anymore, and using their religious beliefs as an excuse to try and derail the ceremony or remove themself from it without having to tell what they really felt. Could be a possibility. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-heartless-bitch-you-used-your-religion-to-ruin-your-sons-wedding-day/185343/58 "2003-07-01T11:50:41Z")
## quote: ## the Straight Dope Gay Mafia, Latino Rhythm Section, Black Pride, Jewish Illuminati, Pagan Pom Pom Brigade and Asian Marching Band > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by matt\_mcl \* > \*\*_cymbals_ Be _kind_ to your _web_-footed _friends_ > For a _duck_ may be _some_body’s _mo_-ther… _tuba_ \*\* They’re right you know. SHAME ON YOU ALL! You have insulted millions of Mallard-Americans with your unkind remarks. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-heartless-bitch-you-used-your-religion-to-ruin-your-sons-wedding-day/185343/59 "2003-07-01T12:00:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Zenster \* > \*\* > > PS: Er … **lezlers** , that’s **Zev** and not **Zen**. \*\* Damn you! I saw the mistake before, but idn’t say anything, hoping it would go away on its own…but now I’m stuck with the mental image of a guy with a long beard and _payess,_ clad in saffron Buddhist monk’s robes, thong sandals, and a yarmulke. ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-heartless-bitch-you-used-your-religion-to-ruin-your-sons-wedding-day/185343/60 "2003-07-01T12:44:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by red\_dragon60 \* > \*\*Something makes me think that religion may have been a convenient excuse. I have no idea what your friend’s relationship is with his mother, but I could see a plausible situation where a mother was just not ready or willing to give up their son and couldn’t face not being the most important woman in their life anymore, and using their religious beliefs as an excuse to try and derail the ceremony or remove themself from it without having to tell what they really felt. > > Could be a possibility. \*\* That might be a possibility, but I don’t really see how that would make her actions any less assholish. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-heartless-bitch-you-used-your-religion-to-ruin-your-sons-wedding-day/185343.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-heartless-bitch-you-used-your-religion-to-ruin-your-sons-wedding-day/185343.md?page=4)