# You know something I never need to hear again (re: poker)? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 21, 2005, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-something-i-never-need-to-hear-again-re-poker/295535 "2005-03-21T10:02:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2005, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-something-i-never-need-to-hear-again-re-poker/295535/81 "2005-03-24T21:30:14Z")
I like how he flopped the bigger boat and then got himself an even bigger one. Sheesh. Here’s one that’s making the rounds on PR. I of course was nowhere near it. $50-$100 NL table. Pre-flop P1 raises to $100, P2 raises to $450, P1 calls. Flop is A82 with two clubs. P1 checks, P2 bets $475, P1 calls. Turn Qc. P1 checks, P2 bets $1300, P1 raises to $4000, P2 calls. River 2d. P1 bets $7,000, P2 raises to $9804 and is all in, P1 calls. P1 has QQ, full house, Queens full of deuces. P2 has 22, quad deuces, P2 wins $29,457. Real money. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2005, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-something-i-never-need-to-hear-again-re-poker/295535/82 "2005-03-24T21:37:02Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > Despite the fact that you’re in early position, you have to raise pre-flop with the pocket KK. It’s certainly true that you may end up just winning the blinds, but winning the small pot is better than losing a big one and going out. Without a read on this player, he may with the big stack and suited cards decided to stick around anyway, but with a big pair I’m a big believer in narrowing the field. You have to make it expensive for those people with the suited cards and the mid-level connectors and even smaller pocket pairs to stick around. > > Your post-flop bet is pretty bad, especially if the third flop card opened up any straight or flush possibilities. There’s about 2000 in the pot and you put out 500. You’re pricing in anyone who’s playing a straight or flush draw or who paired the third card on the flop. 500 to win 2500 is 5:1 on their money and they’re 3:1 to make a flush, 4:1 to make a straight. The only person who shouldn’t call would be the “made” two pair, since he’d only be 12:1 to improve to a full house. 12:1 is also your odds of catching that third K so I don’t think your call is that close here; I think you have to let it go after the all in re-raise unless you think he’s on a total bluff. :smack: Okay, I see. You’re thinking I probably should’ve gone up to about 1000 pre-flop, then at least another 1000 after. How about going all-in? I gotta be honest, I don’t know if that would’ve gotten him out after the flop or not, but I’ll remember that for next time. Quite frankly, I had such a low stack I felt I had to take the chance. I guess I’m looking for justification, or at least reassurance that I’m not one of “them.” I should really crack a book. Are there any good books on no-limit Hold’Em? And feel free to correct my betting if we’re playing tonight. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-something-i-never-need-to-hear-again-re-poker/295535/83 "2005-03-25T02:02:17Z")
I think the move is all in pre-flop. 1000 is 25% of your stack and 2.5 times the BB. The big stack can afford to gamble with a lot of marginal hands for that price, but is probably going to hesitate facing a 3600 raise. That answer of course might change depending on what stage the tourney is at, how many are left before the payday, etc. but I think all in pre-flop in this circumstance is the best play ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-something-i-never-need-to-hear-again-re-poker/295535/84 "2005-03-25T02:10:52Z")
I finished 56. Just missed 12 bucks by 16 places. I do wonder a bit if I had played it either more aggressively or backed off if I would have made it through another 16 players to limp into 40th place. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-something-i-never-need-to-hear-again-re-poker/295535/85 "2005-03-25T18:55:52Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > You know, these threads always make me feel better when I’m playing 8% of the flops and can’t get a hand to save my life. At least then I’m only losing a little bit at a time. > > If you don’t mind me asking, where do all of you play? I play at Ultimate Bet and I’d love to sit in a real game with some Dopers if possible. That way, I can take all of youse guys’ money. 😉 I’m on Poker Stars. ([www.pokerstars.com](http://www.pokerstars.com)) In real life I’m at Atlantic City every now and again, at the Sands. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2005, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-something-i-never-need-to-hear-again-re-poker/295535/86 "2005-03-26T02:01:39Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > If you don’t mind me asking, where do all of you play? I play at PokerRoom. There’s a weekly Doper tourney which I can never seem to find. I’m trying to talk them into playing for real money but no one’s going for it. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2005, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-something-i-never-need-to-hear-again-re-poker/295535/87 "2005-03-26T02:23:55Z")
Otto, you can’t find it for the same reason I can’t find it. We’re real money enabled, they’re not. Different servers. I suggest setting up another account, with a completely different account name and email address, and never touching that account except for Thursday nights. It’s technically a TOS violation, but I don’t think they’ll notice, especially if you don’t touch it until it’s play money only. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2005, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-something-i-never-need-to-hear-again-re-poker/295535/88 "2005-03-26T02:32:23Z")
Oh, and never put in any personal info either. Just set it up and leave it there for a week or two. Even if they could and do track by IP, I don’t think there’s a TOS violation inherent in having more than one account showing up from the same IP, because there could be more than one account per household, as long as only one is for real money, if I’m reading the TOS right. Plus, with dynamic IPs, that’d be hard to track. Even then, according to the TOS, you won’t be summarily banned, just forced to one account, and I don’t think that they’d care, even if they went looking for it, if one is play money only, cause then you can never get on the real money servers with that account. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2005, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-something-i-never-need-to-hear-again-re-poker/295535/89 "2005-03-26T14:11:52Z")
I have a play money only account through Hollywood Poker, which is one of PR’s skins. I still never end up on the same server. It’s OK, every Thursday that I can’t find the Dopers is one more Thursday when I win real money instead. I cleared close to $200 last Thursday at the .25-.50 tables, thanks to a few overly aggressive players and some sweet flops. Gotta love it when the wanna-be table bully flops two pair and bets into your trips. Twice. In three hands. ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2005, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-something-i-never-need-to-hear-again-re-poker/295535/90 "2005-03-26T16:33:31Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > I play at PokerRoom. There’s a weekly Doper tourney which I can never seem to find. I’m trying to talk them into playing for real money but no one’s going for it. That’s not entirely true, a few of us have been mulling aroung getting a money game going. I think the logistics of getting everyone at the same table, on the same server, at the same time is more of a stumbling block than the money. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2005, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-something-i-never-need-to-hear-again-re-poker/295535/91 "2005-03-26T18:02:57Z")
On Party Poker at least, you can create private tables. I haven’t done it, so I don’t know what that entails. If you’re going to get a doper money game going, may I suggest that you use the smallest limits available? Like .25/.50 or something. An amount small enough that people don’t have to worry about hard feelings if they check-raise, etc. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2005, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-something-i-never-need-to-hear-again-re-poker/295535/92 "2005-03-26T18:16:33Z")
I think if we stuck with PokerRoom (this is a PC/Mac issue for you, right, Otto?) we’d be okay if we all went to real money accounts. I can seen them having two servers–one for the real money, and one for the play money to take the load off the people they’re trying to make money from–but unless they have a ton of people I don’t see them having multiple of either. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2005, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-something-i-never-need-to-hear-again-re-poker/295535/93 "2005-03-26T19:11:51Z")
PR does not at this time allow the creating of private single table tournaments (STT). It’s something that the regulars have been badgering them for since at least as long as I’ve been signed up, which is approaching the year mark. PR does have real money STTs which, if the group is quick, can usually be filled with members of the group. There are bunches of us on PR who sometimes play STTs together and we can usually get the bulk of us at the same table. Generally if a non-group person sits in they’re pretty good about leaving when it’s explained that a group is trying to play together. An alternative would be to create a real money private table the same way the play money tables are going now. Everyone buys in for the same dollar amount and we play it out until someone has all the money. The disincentives there are the rake, which would operate on every pot, and the fact that it would be winner take all (as opposed to a STT which pays out the top three spots). > [@asterion](#): > > (this is a PC/Mac issue for you, right, Otto?) Right. PR does have more than the two servers (they have tournaments and ring games on different servers) but the only hardcore segregation they do is real and play money accounts. I don’t know how it all works but any real money-enabled account can access any table, real or play. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2005, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-something-i-never-need-to-hear-again-re-poker/295535/94 "2005-03-26T19:23:36Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > I don’t know how it all works but any real money-enabled account can access any table, real or play. Well, that’s what I thought at first as well, but I could never find them last Thursday. So I’m not sure what’s going on. PR refuses to do private STT, huh? Are there any Mac-compatible ones that do? ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2005, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-something-i-never-need-to-hear-again-re-poker/295535/95 "2005-03-26T20:02:13Z")
Sorry, I phrased that badly. Real-money enabled (RME) accounts can access any table as long as it’s not originated by a play money-only player. Play money players are segregated. If a RME player starts the table, any other RME player should be able to access it but play money players can’t. And vice-versa. PR and its skins are the only Mac-compatible sites I know of. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-something-i-never-need-to-hear-again-re-poker/295535.md?page=4)