# "You know, that's handicapped parking spot!" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 13, 2011, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-thats-handicapped-parking-spot/585328 "2011-06-13T17:13:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-thats-handicapped-parking-spot/585328/201 "2011-06-14T09:26:02Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > I see your post 103 and raise you a post 51 The point is there were legal spaces the OP could have used that were very close by. ---
**Author:** ![2gigch1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/2gigch1/32/3313_2.png) [@2gigch1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2gigch1)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-thats-handicapped-parking-spot/585328/202 "2011-06-14T09:33:03Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > The point is there were legal spaces the OP could have used that were very close by. The REAL problem is if the OP was made to carry his heavy stuff that extra 15 feet he might have pulled out his back, and then he’d become handicapped, and we know how bad other people treat the handicapped. Especially when it comes to parking spaces. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 10:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-thats-handicapped-parking-spot/585328/203 "2011-06-14T10:00:58Z")
> [@randomface](#): > > Laws are not suggestions. If you are willing to break them, at least be honest about it to yourself. I’m not at all commenting on the merits of the OP. I just wanted to point out that this line of reasoning is beyond _retarded_. Laws are not always right and can’t always be abided by. Cite: > **[Watch Biker Prove Futility Of NYC Bike Laws By Crashing Over-And-Over Again -...](https://www.jalopnik.com/watch-biker-prove-futility-of-nyc-bike-laws-by-crashing-5810436/)** > > After getting a $50 ticket for not riding his bike in the painted "bike lane," this militant bicyclist went out of his way to crash into every obstacle placed in the way of New York City's bicyclists. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-thats-handicapped-parking-spot/585328/204 "2011-06-14T10:21:46Z")
> [@Red\_Barchetta](#): > > Laws are not always right and can’t always be abided by. It’s worth pointing out that it’s quite possible to square the above with randomface’s comment that “Laws are not suggestions. If you are willing to break them, at least be honest about it to yourself.” So frankly, your comment that he is “beyond retarded” seems pretty wrong. ---
**Author:** ![2gigch1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/2gigch1/32/3313_2.png) [@2gigch1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2gigch1)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-thats-handicapped-parking-spot/585328/205 "2011-06-14T10:30:13Z")
> [@Red\_Barchetta](#): > > I’m not at all commenting on the merits of the OP. I just wanted to point out that this line of reasoning is beyond _retarded_. Laws are not always right and can’t always be abided by. Is this a question about whether the parking laws are ‘right’ or that they will be enforced, regardless of the views of the motor vehicle operator? I don’t think it is _beyond retarded_ to expect negative consequences from breaking the law without regard to one’s personal beliefs in the value of said law. But then again it does seem to strike back to the heart of the OP’s original assessment that he should not have been given negative feedback for breaking the law since it was _only_ a handicapped parking spot and there were other options _including legal parking for himself 15 feet away._ Yeah I’m kinda stuck on that point. ---
**Author:** ![diggerwam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/919ad9/32.png) [@diggerwam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/diggerwam)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-thats-handicapped-parking-spot/585328/206 "2011-06-14T11:39:21Z")
So I should assume that the folks on the board never use the handicapped stall at your office bathroom?? I’ll be the first to fess up. There is one handicapped stall in the bathroom we share with another office on our floor. I am aware of nobody in either office that is differently abled, either permanently or temp. I use that stall all the time because of the width and manueverability. ---
**Author:** ![sugaree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@sugaree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sugaree)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-thats-handicapped-parking-spot/585328/207 "2011-06-14T12:27:30Z")
No, you cannot assume that, because it is completely within the law for anyone to use a handicapped-accessible bathroom stall. Accessible stalls are supposed to be available for the disabled to use. Handicapped parking is reserved exclusively for the disabled. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-thats-handicapped-parking-spot/585328/208 "2011-06-14T12:30:36Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > Imagine the neighbours. > > Eonwe, does the near universal negative reaction you’ve received here not suggest that you were in the wrong on this, and should change your behaviour? It’s a pretty easy issue to fix (buy a hand truck). Please see the following: > [@Eonwe](#): > > If, when I had gone into the building to grab my piano, I had been ticketed (by a blindingly fast policeman), I wouldn’t be pissed at him. I was in the spot, I brought the ticket on myself. No biggie. > [@Eonwe](#): > > I’m totally willing to accept the consequences of my choice to use it as a loading zone. > [@Eonwe](#): > > I got off track by trying to justify the “rightness” of what I did. It’s not really the point I’m trying to make here. > [@Eonwe](#): > > I’m with you 100% on the first part of this [the fact that I was intentionally breaking the law]. > [@Eonwe](#): > > I’ve already said in this thread that I 100% understand that it is not an argument against a ticket. > [@Eonwe](#): > > For the third time I’ll clarify that I am not arguing for a “right” to park in the handicapped spot. Any attempt on my part to do so was rash and reactionary and not a clear reflection of my opinions. So no, because _as I’ve said before_, and I’ll make it 100% clear here, in case my attempts at saying it while fending off wolves weren’t straight forward enough (and for those who lack reading comprehension skills), I agree that it is wrong to park in a handicapped spot! There are a lot of things that are wrong to do. The ones that come most easily to mind are traffic related laws that are in place to keep us from quite so easily killing each other with our cars. Not a man, woman, or child here has not bent the rules in his or her own self-interest. And yes, maybe going 50 in the 45 zone isn’t really going to make anything perceptibly more unsafe, but _how can you know_!?!? Just as you are not likely to change your non-harmful behavior of occasionally crossing over the speed limit, I am not going to change mine. The fact that more people have decided to be morally outraged!!!11 about me is irrelevant. You and others are welcome to imagine worst-case scenarios, where I go trolling through the streets looking for handicapped spots to occupy, but you’re just wrong. I do it in low/no impact scenarios. Trust me on that or no, I doubt a detailed explanation of the reasoning behind those choices matter to anyone. I’m sure you only speed when it’s safe to do so. As **bengangmo** said upthread, > [@](#): > > To me it is adults being adults. People accomodate to each other all the time, taking a few minutes to load some heavy stuff into a car is not “depriving” somebody of anything, any more than asking somebody to move a cart in a supermarket is an onerous, sould destroying task. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-thats-handicapped-parking-spot/585328/209 "2011-06-14T12:40:43Z")
> [@villa](#): > > You can say it as often as you like, bit it isn’t true. Even if nobody entitled to that spot needed it while you were in there, you contributed to the disrespect shown to a very valuable law. And thereby made it more likely others in the future would do the same. That’s a reasonable point. I imagine, though, that if the law’s efficacy was truly being eroded in that manner, then enforcement would step up and address the issue. ---
**Author:** ![fubbleskag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fubbleskag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fubbleskag)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-thats-handicapped-parking-spot/585328/210 "2011-06-14T12:42:51Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Could you tell us where you live? > > If i ever need to move, i’d like to relocate to a place where “I’m a lazy, selfish asshole” is considered a reasonable excuse. Singapore, apparently. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-thats-handicapped-parking-spot/585328/211 "2011-06-14T13:00:51Z")
> [@fubbleskag](#): > > Singapore, apparently. I dunno. That might not be the place to break laws… Isnt that the place that its a big fine to chew gum on the subway? And wasnt that the place that had a american diplomats son CANED for keying a bunch of cars (personally I the little shit deserved it)? Or am I thinking of somewhere else? ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-thats-handicapped-parking-spot/585328/212 "2011-06-14T13:02:02Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Well, as the first exemplar of this phenomenon in this thread, you should probably tell us. 😛 Well, with this one you win the thread, anyway. 🙂 > [@Dietrich\_K](#): > > Since when did charter members start becoming the worst kinds of trolls? I am trolling because . . . why exactly? I’m not the one turning this into a multi-page monstrosity. I’ve been fairly conciliatory and explained my position pretty clearly. If 80% of the respondents want to call me names, I’m going to fight with them about it. The fact that you happen to disagree with me does not make me a troll. > [@2gigch1](#): > > Consider this: I am the kind of person who will walk up to you with a camera rolling and start asking you very uncomfotable questions for the purposes of embarassing you and making good tv. I’ve done stories on people like you before, the public enjoys watching folks like you squirm. > > So if all these folks can’t appeal to your sense of reason, you might consider that if you meet someone like me you will be publicly humiliated, and perhaps you might not like that. Whatever. Go for it. There’s a big story there. I would have liked to have talked to you yesterday morning. “Yes, I do know I’m in a handicapped spot.” “Yes, I do know that I shouldn’t be here.” “Yes, I realize that I am inconveniencing the third handicapped person who might show up here.” “Do you realize that in the time to do this stupid interview, I would have been gone already?” The public likes watching anyone squirm because it makes them feel superior. So they’re assholes too. Whooptedo. > [@Rick](#): > > I shattered my heel and was on crutches for several months, with a placard. > I ran into what must have been the OP’s father once. > Mall parking lot, one open handicapped spot but a car parked in the flow of traffic blocking half the space (so the car wasn’t in the space, it was just parked across the end, so I could not pull in.) > Anyway there are two guys standing next to the car on this side of the handicapped space talking. I beep my horn, get their attention, point to my placard, point to the space, and point to the car that is blocking my access. > One of the two men walks over and very rudely says “Can’t you see we are busy here” > I replied “Well no, all I can see is that I can’t get into that space, could you please move your car” > “NO” and he storms off. > So I go find a regular parking space which was no shit, almost 100 yards away. At the time, this was close to my max distance on sticks, so by now I was pissed. > I clumped back to the asshole and the issue became obvious, the guy parked next to the handicapped space had backed out, and hit the side of the assholes car. > Anyway I got right up in his face and said the following: > “If there is a God in heaven, I hope that someday he puts you on crutches and someone does to you what you did to me today. And when that happens, I hope you remember today and what a complete asshole you are.” > I thought he was going to burst a blood vessel, his face was about the color of a fire truck. > I turned and clomped away on my sticks. As we neared the door to the mall, my son (15 at the time) says “How do you get into an accident in a parking lot?” > This was too good to pass up, so I turned around and yelled in my loudest voice across the intervening 30 feet > “HEY ASSHOLE, MY SON IS LEARNING TO DRIVE, AND HE JUST ASKED A QUESTION I CAN’T ANSWER, BUT I THINK YOU ARE QUALIFIED TO. HOW DO YOU GET INTO AN ACCIDENT WHEN YOU ARE PARKED?” That at least made me feel better. > > Non handicapped people who take up or block blue spaces are the lowest of the low. And I am happy to point that out to them. Once again, a 100% irrelevant story, meant to show how bad a person I am. You have an experience where a guy is blocking a handicapped spot because he got in an accident. He is a jerk to you, you are a jerk to him in retribution (yay, I’m such a man I can shout profanities in a public place!), and I care about this why? I did not do this to you. I have never done this to anyone. Had someone come by and needed me to move, I would have been very apologetic, hopped in my car, and moved it. And then probably have felt guilty for having been in the person’s spot and making them have to ask me to move. But, as I’ve said before, in this situation and others when I’ve used handicapped spaces to unload my car, I do so when I can be pretty damned sure I’ll have no reason to be embarrassed. But thanks for sharing your story, whatever the fuck the point was. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Niply\_Elder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8e8cbc/32.png) [@The\_Niply\_Elder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Niply_Elder)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-thats-handicapped-parking-spot/585328/213 "2011-06-14T13:03:37Z")
I’m with the OP on this one. First of all, handicapped parking spots are the most underutilized spots of all. There is a glut of them, compared to the proportion of our society who is actually handicapped. Second, while I appreciate the several testimonials put forth by members who are handicapped, the general spirit of the law of the road is that no one is entitled to anything. Everyone has the privilege to use public property for transportation, and this includes handicapped spots. Last, I think society can maximize the benefit derived from these spaces by accommodating immediate loaders/unloaders provided there are other available handicap spots, and provided the unloaders can yield the spot to a handicapped person if requested. I think it’s totally reasonable to have a hierarchy of preferred users for these spots. All is required is for people to be able to carry on a normal adult conversation. Frankly I don’t understand the faux proxy rage of the vast majority of the responses. Do people not see that handicapped spaces are but empty gestures that hardly truly improve the lives of handicapped people? ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-thats-handicapped-parking-spot/585328/214 "2011-06-14T13:05:48Z")
> [@Duckster](#): > > The OP expresses an attitude that exemplifies what is really wrong in America: “It’s all about me. Fuck the lot of you. I will do what I want, when I want, wherever I want.” You know what attitude exemplifies what is really wrong in America? “You did something I disapprove of, so we’re going to jump to all the worst conclusions, besmirch your character, be as abusive and crude with our language as possible to castigate you because that’s the best way to deal with someone who does something we don’t like; shout at them and tell them what a bad person they are until we win and you disappear with your tail between your legs.” So screw you. ---
**Author:** ![Trion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Trion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trion)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-thats-handicapped-parking-spot/585328/215 "2011-06-14T13:08:24Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > I’m totally willing to accept the consequences of my choice to use it as a loading zone. Getting flack from the “self-righteous bitch” who told you off for parking in the handicapped spot is one of the consequences of your choice. ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-thats-handicapped-parking-spot/585328/216 "2011-06-14T13:18:14Z")
This thread makes me think back to my junior high school days and a hippy teacher who taught us about ethics and morals. Some parts really stuck with me especially her part of [Kohlberg’s Stages of Moral Development.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kohlberg%27s_stages_of_moral_development#Stages) It was something we learned at the beginning of the semester and we were asked to track our behaviors and where they’d fall into the chart. > [@](#): > > \*\*Level 1 (Pre-Conventional) \*\* > > 1. Obedience and punishment orientation (How can I avoid punishment?) > 2. Self-interest orientation (What’s in it for me?) (Paying for a benefit) > > **Level 2 (Conventional)** > 3. Interpersonal accord and conformity (Social norms) (The good boy/good girl attitude) > 4. Authority and social-order maintaining orientation (Law and order morality) > > **Level 3 (Post-Conventional)** > 5. Social contract orientation > 6. Universal ethical principles (Principled conscience) So as I’m reading through this thread, I’m looking at the OP’s posts and evaluating where they’d be. Level 1 example: [QUOTE=Eonwe] I do it in low/no impact scenarios. [/QUOTE] or [QUOTE=Eonwe] However, did you notice that I was lugging heavy equipment into my car? [/QUOTE] I kept looking to find points where **Eonwe** showed something more than level 1, but everytime I felt like it came close, that door slammed shut. Even attempts at lower levels like Interpersonal accord and conformity seem to slip over Eonwe’s head when he’s said things like [QUOTE=Eonwe] is that the woman was neither handicapped nor parking enforcement, and decided to make my business her business. [/QUOTE] I would think that levels 3 and 4 should be baselines for teenagers and some slower adults, but Eonwe’s resistance to get past 1 in this instance is rather disturbing. As for the speeding red herring. What’s missing is the fact that no one’s posting a thread complaining about being yelled at for speeding while they were rushing to a gig. No one is in here claiming that they are entitled to speed just for a little bit. Therein lies a big gulf between the speeding and what it is **Eonwe** ’s doing. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-thats-handicapped-parking-spot/585328/217 "2011-06-14T13:20:00Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Where did I say that you are lying? I said that you can’t know that you didn’t “inconvenience” any handicapped people because, as you said yourself, you were not right there by the car the whole time. You used the excuse that you had your trunk open and your flashers going, as if that is the universal sign for “handicapped people can wait 10 minutes until I’m done dropping off my stuff”, as if that makes up for the fact that you were using a parking spot others _need_ and you only wanted to use because you felt lazy. Maybe my response to you was strong, but there’s a very fine line, IMHO, between choosing to insist that a person does not know something he says he knows, and calling him a liar. There was no one who needed that spot. Fact. Why is it so unbelievable? > [@](#): > > Ah, backpedaling! Before you parked closer because you didn’t want to have to haul heavy equipment a long distance, and now you claim to have been looking at your car the whole time except for extremely brief times. Huh. > > (Not sure what earshot has to do with it, unless you also expect handicapped people to honk at your car, as well as wait for you to get around to getting out of the way.) Not backpedaling. How far do your eyes work? Imagine, if you will. Door on the side of the building. Sidewalk runs parallel to the side of the building, straight to the parking lot. Total length, who the fuck knows; I don’t want to make it up for fear of exaggerating one way or another. But, aside from when I was inside the door to grab my things, I had a straight line of sight to the parking lot. So, yes, I was able to see the lot and my car for the entire duration, minus the times I ducked in the door, grabbed my waiting gear, and turned around again. Sorry, you didn’t get me. I’m sure if you look hard enough you can find some other inconsistency in something I’ve posted that you can grab onto as further indication of what a bad, selfish, dishonest person I am. And, earshot is also relevant because cars make noise. When they run. With their motors and stuff (well, I guess a Prius would have escaped my aural notice). ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-thats-handicapped-parking-spot/585328/218 "2011-06-14T13:24:14Z")
[Quote=Eonwe] I’m totally willing to accept the consequences of my choice to use it as a loading zone. [/quote] I think this is part of the problem here. It’s _not_ you who faces the consequences of your choice. It’s the guy in the wheelchair who can’t otherwise get in or out of his car, or the little old lady with COPD. I don’t see you as an asshole, just someone who stubbornly refuses to see the truth. I hope you’ll remember this thread next time you park in a handicapped spot. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-thats-handicapped-parking-spot/585328/219 "2011-06-14T13:27:03Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > So, in this thread I’ve been called a jerk, asshole, classless dick, morally handicapped, a bad person, a self-absorbed blowhard, desperate for attention, had my actions compared to stealing, been threatened (jokingly, I understand) with smashed kneecaps, been told that I must hate handicapped people, had people assume that I must be lying about my story because apparently parking in a handicapped spot makes me a liar as well, all because I parked in a handicapped spot for 5 minutes. > > My actions: no one was inconvenienced. No one was hurt. I was polite to the woman in the OP. > > Your (name callers) actions: you all sound like a bunch of crazy hyenas with no sense of perspective, nuance, or critical thought. Welcome to the Dope. Enjoy your stay. Every now and then Dopers go into a feeding frenzy, and all logic leaves the building. Don’t take it personally. You’re just the sacrificial lamb du jour. My advice? Let this thread die. Don’t post or even visit the site for a week or two. The sanctimonious pricks will eventually find someone else to judge. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-thats-handicapped-parking-spot/585328/220 "2011-06-14T13:37:11Z")
Speaking as a father of a child who uses a wheelchair I’d just like to say … I still like you Eonwe. Besides, I always forget the friggin’ parking tag thingie I’m supposed to use, so we never use the handicap spots anyway. There. All is forgiven. Go, and sin no more. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-thats-handicapped-parking-spot/585328.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-thats-handicapped-parking-spot/585328.md?page=12)