# "You know, that's handicapped parking spot!" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 13, 2011, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-thats-handicapped-parking-spot/585328 "2011-06-13T17:13:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2011, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-thats-handicapped-parking-spot/585328/441 "2011-06-22T04:53:09Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > Whoooo boy, I bet they relished that shit! Smash, motherfucker! Hahahaa! > > One of those pics, it almost looks like it would have been easier to just throw the hose _over_ the car. But nope! Smash, bitch. Hee hee. Classic. One of the photos looked like it was the mayor’s official vehicle blocking the firefighters, didn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2011, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-thats-handicapped-parking-spot/585328/442 "2011-06-22T07:09:46Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > But the [enforcement of the ADA is the responsibility of the Department of Justice](http://www.ada.gov/enforce.htm). A lawsuit brought by them, not you, wouldn’t be toothless. Maybe you should be writing them a letter. The DoJ doesn’t bring ADA lawsuits against anyone, though. They technically could, but they don’t because that would require an investigative arm and an effort that they’re not empowered/funded to undertake. The DoJ might engage themselves in ADA violations by municipalities or school districts or government entities, but individual business and property owners? No. Instead, there is a whole industry, at this point, of lawyers who make a living on ADA lawsuits, they get a plaintiff who works for them, essentially, usually someone who uses a wheelchair, and they go to businesses for the express purpose of looking for ADA violations. Then the lawyer swoops in with a demand for corrections and financial damages, with the threat of a lawsuit if the business doesn’t come into compliance _and_ pay up, and so it goes. > [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > I think part of this is due to geography. Where I live, the enforcement of handicap-parking abuse is 100% non-existent due to highly depleted police and law-enforcement depts. Calling 911 or even the non-emergency number (actually, there is no non-emergency police number for Pittsburgh anymore, all calls are to go through 911) for “illegally parked in a handicapped spot” will get the complaint automatically put into the lowest priority category. An officer might show up in an hour on a weekday afternoon, on a weekend evening? You’re not going to see a cop at all. It’s not that they don’t care, they just don’t have the resources. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2011, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-thats-handicapped-parking-spot/585328/443 "2011-06-22T07:19:46Z")
I wouldn’t park in handicapped spaces, but I’m going to play devil’s advocate just because the sanctimony level in this particular pile-on is reaching critical levels. The fact is, civil society requires two things to work properly - it requires people to respect the law in spirit and in specifics, while at the same time being tolerant of the fact that sometimes situations arise where the spirit of the law is not in danger and the alternative to breaking it results in real hardship to someone for no real purpose. That’s why in well-functioning societies the cops will let someone go for mild speeding if they are also maintaining safe distances between vehicles and not driving like a lunatic, while cracking the boom on other people who speed by the same amount but who are dangerously cutting and thrusting through traffic. It’s why police will often look the other way if the street is completely empty and you jaywalk because the nearest crosswalk is half a block away, while charging someone who jaywalks by running across a busy street. It’s why the ‘flow of traffic speed’ is almost always 5-10 mph faster than the posted speed limit on freeways. If you live on a street where there is no place to park, and you have to move a fridge into your apartment, go ahead and double-park in front of the door. Hell, I might even stop and help you if you’re struggling with it. Your temporary need overwhelms my ‘right’ to drive in that lane without having to move around your vehicle. And I’m betting that if you were doing this safely and clearly had no other good option, a cop would probably just give you a warning and tell you to get out of the way as soon as possible. Likewise, if there’s three empty rows of handicapped spaces in front of the hardware store, and you park in one of the 12 empty spots so that you can haul out 800lbs of bricks and load them into your truck without having to haul them across a parking lot, I think that’s a pretty damned trivial offense, and officious people who would get in the face of the person doing this are out of line. On the other hand, if you pull into a handicapped spot during a busy time when almost all of them are already in use, and you justify this because you’ll be ‘just a few minutes’ and you come out carrying a 20lb load, you’re just an asshole. There is a difference between these behaviors, and tolerance and good judgment is required on both sides. Zero tolerance sucks in schools, and it sucks as a morality. Consider the circumstances before climbing on your moral high horse. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2011, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-thats-handicapped-parking-spot/585328/444 "2011-06-22T13:27:30Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > The parking decks downtown\ Those are called [parkades.](http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/parkade) 🙂 > [@Joey\_P](#): > > If there’s a fire they might [not](http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_ckBlasgNSzg/SLXSTPe6-5I/AAAAAAAAHVI/1gMKekxlUhc/s1600/No%2BParking%2BIn%2BFront%2BOf%2BFire%2BHydrant.jpg) [ask](http://api.ning.com/files/1QC7GTbhbPp6gSOQScg7UJgvh63m5qhkwZS1P16EPE0mV-C3bxyHVs9V-mCa5XSvIcueeRMZGXrdLqzUQ*1zu7p2W-jpIY58/FireLaneParking.jpg) [you](http://api.ning.com/files/sndxaZ5O4JNyvqq4PVeSLAOiGFgj2eaNaNZMyFOwgRtHbv5TeSsx2hrIB277Wl3NMb5547jSYlFQHm1gXktM9vuNS3qV1rwX/fdny_parking.jpg?width=500&height=312) to move.\ That’s one of my favourite internet pictures. > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > \ > That’s why in well-functioning societies the cops will let someone go for mild speeding if they are also maintaining safe distances between vehicles and not driving like a lunatic, while cracking the boom on other people who speed by the same amount but who are dangerously cutting and thrusting through traffic. It’s why police will often look the other way if the street is completely empty and you jaywalk because the nearest crosswalk is half a block away, while charging someone who jaywalks by running across a busy street. \ You don’t seem well-acquainted with the frivolous, capricious law enforcement of the Calgary police force. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2011, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-thats-handicapped-parking-spot/585328/445 "2011-06-22T14:41:49Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > You don’t seem well-acquainted with the frivolous, capricious law enforcement of the Calgary police force. 🙂 Not Calgary, but I’ve run into plenty of the ‘letter of the law’ types, and they just make life worse for everyone. I had a city inspector fail my house lot once because the zoning rule said that any ‘fence structure’ had to end 3ft back from the sidewalk. We have a stone wall that gradually steps down to ground level, where it becomes cobblestone blocks flush with the ground. It is flush with ground by about 10 feet from the sidewalk. Nonetheless, this yokel insisted that it’s part of the ‘fence structure’ because it’s all made out of the same material. I tried explaining to him that the law was clearly there to allow better access for emergency services and to prevent driveway visibility from being blocked, etc. You couldn’t call a block flush with the ground a ‘fence’. But no, he had to stick to the letter of the law and his insane literal interpretation of it, and he demanded that I dig up the blocks and replace them with something that was ‘not part of the fence system’. Which would cost me money and be totally pointless. What I did was simply wait six months, then I kicked some gravel over the blocks and called for another inspection - and passed with flying colors. Then I swept the gravel back off after the inspector left. That’s the kind of literal-minded, no tolerance, mindless following of the law that just makes life difficult for everyone. It’s important to know when a violation is really no big deal or even a rational, responsible act and just let it go. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2011, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-thats-handicapped-parking-spot/585328/446 "2011-06-22T15:12:47Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > One of the photos looked like it was the mayor’s official vehicle blocking the firefighters, didn’t it? Hell yeah! If the freakin’ _mayor_ can’t park here, OP, you don’t stand a chance. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2011, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-thats-handicapped-parking-spot/585328/447 "2011-06-22T18:04:25Z")
> [@tumbleddown](#): > > The hell it does. Maybe in some office buildings where there don’t happen to be any disabled employees, but the legal requirement is a ratio of 1:50 spaces, and the ratio scales by lots of 50, so if you have 99 spaces, only 1 has to be reserved, 149 spaces you can still reserve just 2. > > At my local Trader Joes that means that there is 1 space, and because their lot is so small, they got a waiver and didn’t have to make it van accessible, so screw all the wheelies, they don’t want you in their hipster grocery anyway, I guess. [ > > There are 4 spaces at my local neighborhood grocery, but only 2 if you’re on wheels or not able to walk up/down an rather steep and ridiculous incline created by pisspoor grading of the lot. Now that’s a different argument. It may be that van-accessible spots comprise too small a fraction of handicapped spots - I’d have no freakin’ clue about that. But I didn’t make any claim at all regarding that. > [@](#): > > The shopping center where my bank is located did something brilliant with their reserved spots. The facility forms a rectangle around the parking lot, with a large supermarket at one of the skinny ends of the rectangle. _Every single mandated reserved spot_ is outside of the supermarket, so if you’re going to any of the other merchants (or the offices, the entries to which are at the centers of the long sides of the rectangle) you’re just completely without an option, including any option to even get out of your vehicle if you’re on wheels. Nor did I make a claim about adequate placement. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2011, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-thats-handicapped-parking-spot/585328/448 "2011-06-22T23:02:02Z")
> [@5-HT](#): > > Well, I guess I’ll have to take your word for it, because that’s the opposite of my own experience. I’m far more used to seeing the spots sit empty. You probably tend only to see the spots when they are empty. When they are full, you likely don’t find them as noticeable (because you aren’t looking at them thinking “Ooh, I can park there. Oops, it’s a handicapped spot”) because the signs won’t be as obvious. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2011, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-thats-handicapped-parking-spot/585328/449 "2011-06-23T00:51:25Z")
I thought of a sorta analogy today. Do people who park in handicapped places when not entitled to also use the HOV lane when driving by themselves? I’m sure they have really good reasons to not wait for the green light when getting on the freeway. It’s easy for me to imagine a time when someone, who thinks getting a icee is a priority, might also be able to rationalize using a HOV lane. Not sure so I thought I would ask. Thought of this at an on ramp today when a douche bag of a single occupancy vehicle cut me off to avoid waiting for the light. I was in the HOV lane, as I’m entitled to at that place because there were 2 of us. Douche bag was alone (I could see into his car and there were no baby seats). ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2011, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-thats-handicapped-parking-spot/585328/450 "2011-06-23T05:40:22Z")
> [@tumbleddown](#): > > The DoJ doesn’t bring ADA lawsuits against anyone, though. They technically could, but they don’t because that would require an investigative arm and an effort that they’re not empowered/funded to undertake. The DoJ might engage themselves in ADA violations by municipalities or school districts or government entities, but individual business and property owners? No. [Take a look here](http://www.ada.gov/newsltr0511.htm). ---
**Author:** ![shiftless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9c0ed/32.png) [@shiftless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shiftless)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2011, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-thats-handicapped-parking-spot/585328/451 "2011-06-23T18:15:50Z")
> [@5-HT](#): > > Well, I guess I’ll have to take your word for it, because that’s the opposite of my own experience. I’m far more used to seeing the spots sit empty. Must be geography. In my neighborhood I almost never see any cars in the restricted spots. At the grocery store, 6 handicap-parking spots up front, 2 pregnant lady spots, all empty 98% of the time, then the covered spots for returning shopping carts, then the first “regular” spot. I’ve seen cars in handicap spots, with a sticker, never anyone who looked like they were having a hard time walking. At the 7-11 there are 5 regular spots and 2 handicap spots. The 2 spots are never, ever used. People will line up in the fire lanes two deep but the handicap spots sit open, maybe because the signage is scarier on the restricted spots than in the fire lane. I have skipped stopping at the 7-11 more than once because the only available place to leave my car was the handicap spot. Part of the reason was that I didn’t want to get yelled out by a guy in a wheelchair, so the the activism works. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-thats-handicapped-parking-spot/585328/452 "2011-06-24T21:02:18Z")
> [@shiftless](#): > > I’ve seen cars in handicap spots, with a sticker, never anyone who looked like they were having a hard time walking. Perhaps the reason they didn’t look like they were having a hard time walking was that they were only walking for 20 feet. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2011, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-thats-handicapped-parking-spot/585328/453 "2011-06-25T01:17:27Z")
> [@shiftless](#): > > I’ve seen cars in handicap spots, with a sticker, never anyone who looked like they were having a hard time walking. I read a piece once about handicap parking spots. They interviewed one guy who had the sticker after being certified by a doctor because of some sort of lung condition. He really could not walk far without collapsing. But since he had no visible outward signs of being handicapped – no wheelchair, no leg braces etc – he said he was always getting yelled at by people whenever he parked in a spot. They thought he’d just borrowed some handicapped person’s car or something. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2011, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-thats-handicapped-parking-spot/585328/454 "2011-06-25T01:24:10Z")
Even if I think it’s someone who’s abusing a placard, if someone is parking in handicap parking with a placard I never ever ask them a thing. ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2011, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-thats-handicapped-parking-spot/585328/455 "2011-06-25T12:15:53Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > I read a piece once about handicap parking spots. They interviewed one guy who had the sticker after being certified by a doctor because of some sort of lung condition. He really could not walk far without collapsing. But since he had no visible outward signs of being handicapped – no wheelchair, no leg braces etc \ My dad was one such. He had emphysema and could not walk far at all. ---
**Author:** ![stegon66](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee59a6/32.png) [@stegon66](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stegon66)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2011, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-thats-handicapped-parking-spot/585328/456 "2011-06-25T12:58:53Z")
> [@](#): > > But to use a space in order to make your (able bodied) life easier when engaged in optional activities or to engage in frivolity like frozen treats, no, absolutely not. Just no. Well, you know what? I admitted I was technically wrong but since absolutely no harm was done to anyone your vitriol is unjustified. If this kind of thing gets you so upset I’d hate to see your reaction to really bad behavior. Frankly, most of you naysayers in this thread need meds or you’re really the self-righteous pricks you seem to be. Bitch when you can honestly say YOU’VE never bent the law in even the slightest of ways. As for “able-bodied,” well, not really. I’m almost 45 and have cf. Most of the time I get around okay but in humid weather it’s tough going. I could probably get a handicapped sticker if I wanted. Maybe I SHOULD just to spite the self-righteous assholes in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2011, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-thats-handicapped-parking-spot/585328/457 "2011-06-25T13:16:35Z")
I’m telling you there is no way that a bar/restaurant/venue, takes delivery of all it’s beer, food, supplies, removes garbage, etc, through the front door. No freaking chance. There was another entrance to this venue, I promise you. But, chances are, the stage is actually closer to the front door than the alternate entrance, by a long shot. So lazy ass musicians pull their vehicle into the handicapped space and unload. Claiming, ‘Oh, oh, but my amp is heavy!’ Get a wheeled cart, and grow up. Don’t like hauling amps and crap? Give up being a musician then you whinger. Like all people using handicap parking without stickers, they are just lazy shits and they don’t give a fig about whom they might be displacing - they’ll just have to wait. So self absorbed their ego has convinced them that their needs clearly out weigh all others. I choose to believe that every single person who misuses handicapped parking, ends up, before going to their grave, physically disabled. And that every time they get to the mall, the spots are all full! ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2011, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-thats-handicapped-parking-spot/585328/458 "2011-06-25T14:45:27Z")
> [@stegon66](#): > > Well, you know what? I admitted I was technically wrong but since absolutely no harm was done to anyone your vitriol is unjustified. If this kind of thing gets you so upset I’d hate to see your reaction to really bad behavior. Frankly, most of you naysayers in this thread need meds or you’re really the self-righteous pricks you seem to be. Bitch when you can honestly say YOU’VE never bent the law in even the slightest of ways. > > As for “able-bodied,” well, not really. I’m almost 45 and have cf. Most of the time I get around okay but in humid weather it’s tough going. I could probably get a handicapped sticker if I wanted. Maybe I SHOULD just to spite the self-righteous assholes in this thread. Why would that be spiting us? You have CF, and it does cause you issues. Perfect example of someone that looks ablebodied that has a valid medical condition. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2011, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-thats-handicapped-parking-spot/585328/459 "2011-06-25T16:11:34Z")
> [@stegon66](#): > > Well, you know what? I admitted I was technically wrong but since absolutely no harm was done to anyone your vitriol is unjustified. If this kind of thing gets you so upset I’d hate to see your reaction to really bad behavior. Frankly, most of you naysayers in this thread need meds or you’re really the self-righteous pricks you seem to be. Bitch when you can honestly say YOU’VE never bent the law in even the slightest of ways. Big fat meh. Parking in the handicapped spots while able-bodied is literally worse than anything I’ve ever done. Sorry to burst your bubble and all. > [@](#): > > As for “able-bodied,” well, not really. I’m almost 45 and have cf. Most of the time I get around okay but in humid weather it’s tough going. I could probably get a handicapped sticker if I wanted. Maybe I SHOULD just to spite the self-righteous assholes in this thread. Absolutely. CF is a handicap. Go get a placard. ---
**Author:** ![stegon66](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee59a6/32.png) [@stegon66](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stegon66)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2011, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-thats-handicapped-parking-spot/585328/460 "2011-06-25T16:47:39Z")
Admittedly it’s a point of pride that I still get around as well as I do given my age and physical condition. Plus I just don’t feel that I’m at the point where I’m really disabled enough to need a placard. I don’t feel entitled to it yet. There are people much worse off than I am. That aside, you’re still not gonna convince me that what I did was oh-so awful - I took up one of four empty handicapped spaces for thirty seconds or so? Not really that big a deal. Say I’d cut off a cripple to take up the last handicapped spot, then flipped him off and went and had a lengthy dinner. THEN you’d really have something to bitch about. It’s disheartening to see so many educated and enlightened posters go off the rails over such a minor issue. Yeesh. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-thats-handicapped-parking-spot/585328.md?page=22) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-thats-handicapped-parking-spot/585328.md?page=24)