I wouldn’t call it so much “lucky” as “along with a majority in my town, voted in a city council such that there’s a bylaw that describes adequate minimum available parking for any new construction.”
A local theater, no longer in business, once had my absolute loyalty. I once saw a bright red sports car, no handicapped tags, no sticker, no nothing, pull up and park in the “right next to the entrance” handicapped spot. Two able bodied young people bounced out and went into the theater. I was grumbling about it to the ticket taker and the manager overheard me. He asked if I could point them out, and I did. They were standing in the refreshment line, and the manager headed that way.
So I go on into the theater and a few minutes later those two come into the same show, grumbling and grousing about having to move their car, calling the manager names and saying crap like “but it wasn’t being used!”
If it were a matter of convenience, they wouldn’t have handicapped tags, you fucking idiot.
I’m confused about how stupid you are that you think it’s a problem to use a *loading *zone for loading.
You may not have noticed **LilyoftheField **before, but she has a history of being proud of not giving a shit about how her own refusal to adhere to laws and/or social contracts severely inconveniences or outright harms others.
I would so pay to see video of something like this. Hey, what an idea for a new reality series. It could be called “Jerks in the Firelane” or something like that.
I like to give everyone the benefit of the doubt. Y’know, because I’m all sweetness and light and stuff.
And how do you propose they do that? On a local level? Figure out how many disabled people there are in a particular area? Or just make it global, which means that is some areas there are always going to be more spots available to the disabled than are really needed? You are one of those people who fall into the category that I already mentioned - able bodied but not to a degree that merits a handicap sticker/placard.
Just like there are degrees of disability, there are also degrees of ability. All I am saying is that there may be circumstances under which a normally able-bodied person may decide that he/she is willing to risk a ticket because their circumstances dictate that they have to ‘steal’ a handicap spot.
I would do it. I have done it. Granted, it was only once and it was 20 years ago, but yeah - I parked in a handicap parking place. I was briefly and temporarily disabled by illness at the time. And I got a ticket. Which I ascribed to really bad luck, bad timing and a cop who decided to be a self righteous asshole. Nevertheless, I knew when I parked there that I was taking a chance, so when I lost, I lost. I sucked it up and paid the ticket. Doesn’t mean that I believed the ticket was warranted, it was just that from a strictly legal standpoint I was ‘breaking the law’. Luckily I have never had another circumstance in which I needed to do the same. But, looking back - no, I still can’t see that I did anything ‘wrong’ from a strictly moral standpoint. (There were about six other handicap spots available at the time). I was not being an asshole. If I had to do it over again I would do the same thing. And take my chances.
I don’t think that the problem here is that people are too willing to deprive the disabled of their ‘rights’. Do we have an obligation to make it up to disabled people because they became disabled? No, of course not. But we are human and we try to make it as easy as we can on the disabled. I don’t have a problem with that. I do have a problem with a global, ‘disabled people, simply by virtue of their disability, are more worthy than anybody else’ mentality.
Which is only to say, not that you should park in handicap spots, but only that there may be circumstances in which doing so is understandable.
You’ve either been lucky, or you never go anywhere during peak times, or your city requires stores/businesses to provide so much parking that the lot is empty most of the time.
If there’s a fire they might not ask you to move.
I have a friend who’s dad was a firefighter and always had a few stories like this. I don’t think he ever destroyed any cars, but he did mention running hoses through open windows or under cars which means the person can’t leave until the firefighters do.
I’d also imagine they’d get a ticket and any news crews that show up probably get a kick out of it as well.
Well, I’m not surprised that someone who can’t read the words, “fire lane” would become easily confused.
aww…SFG…you remember me! I’m touched. I remember that thread too - you know - the one where you were a self righteous asshole who gave no regard to relevant circumstances? You remember that? Yeah, I see that you do.
Of course, unlike you, I have occasionally violated social norms, and I carry no guilt about that - because not only was no one harmed, the potential for someone being harmed was so incredibly miniscule that it hardly mattered. Not unlike this thread. So I guess that makes you more noble than me, but that’s okay 'cuz if you’re my shining example of nobility? Yeah, I think I’m okay with staying where I am.
The parking decks downtown are usually 1/3-1/2 full a good bit of the time, but typically it’s not all that empty in any parking lots outside of normal business hours. The perils of a well-designed town center.
But once you make that concession… once you agree that there ARE exceptions other than instant obvious life or death (which I think everyone would agree with), then the only issue is where the line is drawn. Once you’ve agreed that enough mitigating circumstances – which presumably include both the availability of other handicapped spaces, the length of visit, the difficulty of loading/unloading the car (ie, heavy/fragile packages, hordes of little kids), particular urgency, shortness of stay, type of venue, temporary health concerns, etc. – can make it ethically acceptable to park in the handicapped spot, then the important issue, as I see it, is whether the person doing it did in fact weigh the issue and make a good faith decision that in this particular case the risk was minimal, etc. That is, they didn’t just do it because they felt like it and don’t give a shit, they did it because they honestly weighed their need vs the potential need of the handicapped and decided that in that particular instance, the balance came out a particular way. And, importantly, that same person would in the vast majority of cases in their life, NOT park in the handicapped spot.
If you judge that the particular situation of the OP or the Icee guy were insufficient to justify their actions, you are certainly free to do so, this being the Pit and whatnot (although of course you were not there, and neither was I). Heck, you might well be right in either case… as I said earlier, while the precise circumstances described in the OP don’t particularly bother me in and of themselves, his reaction to the lady there, and the fact that he seems to do this as a matter of routine, are both red flags to me. It’s the absolute exceptionless blanket statements in this thread that I have disagreed with, along with the hyperbolic tone of posts such as #385.
Ambrose Bierce once defined four grades of homicide: felonious, negligent, justifiable, and praiseworthy. The latter category, I think, would apply to able-bodied people who park in handicapped spaces…
This is my experience as well.
Additionally, the vast majority of people I’ve known personally who have handicapped placards on their cars are abusing the system, either through family members or due to “handicaps” that don’t really limit their movement. This isn’t to suggest that these cheaters make up the majority overall, but I’d worry about their behavior a lot more than what the OP is talking about.
Whoooo boy, I bet they relished that shit! Smash, motherfucker! Hahahaa!
One of those pics, it almost looks like it would have been easier to just throw the hose over the car. But nope! Smash, bitch. Hee hee. Classic.
I’m not sure I said I was angry at all, and no I don’t get out of my car to see if each car parked in a handicapped slot has a crip hanger since - duh - it would be highly uncomfortable to painful for me to go park my car then walk up and look at those cars. If I could do that, I wouldn’t need the handicapped parking.
Shrug. Your point has nothing to do with the discussion. Yes, as our population gets older, we are likely to have more handicapped folks so more and more often those spots will be filled with legit cars. OTOH, the problem at hand are those able bodied people who use the handicapped spots because they want to save themselves some steps or some time. If it becomes acceptable for these folks to do this for “just a minute” or because “they are always empty”, it will be far more likely that I won’t be able to find parking. My life is limited enough as it is, thankyouverymuch.
Oh, well, I don’t think my life sucks, so I guess that doesn’t apply either.
The difference is, Eonwe left his car - he turned it off and walked away. Given his response to the woman who called him out for parking there, I imagine his response to being asked to move would have been less than immediate. After all, he has a right to be 15 feet closer while moving his equipment, right? :rolleyes:
They are a little harder to catch…
Not me. If the only abuse that took place regarding handicap parking spaces was the “psuedo-legal” variety of ppl using placards they didn’t really deserve (or wasn’t issued to them) and NOT the outright flagant abuse that is everywhere, I’d be ok with it. I CANNOT go to a parking lot with more than 20 overall spaces and NOT encounter someone illegally parking in the handicap spots. Every single day of my life. Usually multiple ppl. And the entitlement ppl feel to park there is aggressive and startling. “Oh, I just didn’t want to get robbed, so I parked close.” “There are other spots, what fucking business is it of yours?” “Go ahead and call the police, I’ll just be gone by the time they get here anyway.” I could go on for pages. No, if it was just people abusing placards, it’d be a helluva lot better.
But the enforcement of the ADA is the responsibility of the Department of Justice. A lawsuit brought by them, not you, wouldn’t be toothless. Maybe you should be writing them a letter.
It isn’t my impression that local municipalities can just set their own lax standards.
http://www.ada.gov/adata1.htm
However:
So there is a dodge, so I guess you’ll have to wade through the UFAS to see if they are in violation.
Well, I guess I’ll have to take your word for it, because that’s the opposite of my own experience. I’m far more used to seeing the spots sit empty.
I think part of this is due to geography. Where I live, the enforcement of handicap-parking abuse is 100% non-existent due to highly depleted police and law-enforcement depts. And the tricky way the whole thing just IS, enforcement is difficult even WITH good police response. It really does take a concerted effort on the part of business owners, security guards, watchful public and timely police responses to make enforcement (and thus adherence) a success. See, if a person is seen illegally parked in a handicap spot, a person is advised to call the police (calling security is pointless because they aren’t empowered to DO anything). But how likely is it that the offending vehicle will remain in the spot until police arrive? Not very likely. Some suggest taking down the license plate #. But what good will that do? No good.