# You know what? Fuck unions after all. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 22, 2006, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-fuck-unions-after-all/381474 "2006-11-22T22:13:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![dbuzman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de0a6/32.png) [@dbuzman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dbuzman)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2006, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-fuck-unions-after-all/381474/21 "2006-11-23T06:18:49Z")
[QUOTE=Shagnasty] Except many parts of the country have hardly any unions at all and I rarely hear about Draconian working conditions from the mechanics there. \ [/QUOTE] That’s partly because non union companies are afraid that if they push too hard, then their employees will unionize. I don’t think all unions are bad, just the ones that shifted from protecting the workers to exploiting the companies. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2006, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-fuck-unions-after-all/381474/22 "2006-11-23T06:21:03Z")
[QUOTE=Otto] I want the union to have enough flexibility that a mechanic would be able to stay until 4:15, or a mechanic could start at 8:15 so that his or her 8 hour shift would run until 4:15. [/QUOTE] So you’re saying both the mechanics _and_ the dealer want to be able to work on your car after 3:30pm, but the union doesn’t let them? Who exactly told you that, and how do you know that’s the truth? Anyway, serves you right for being so dependent on cars. Would it kill you to use public transport or bicycle for a couple of days? I have never in my life had to ask someone to pick me up at a car mechanic, or drop me off there. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2006, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-fuck-unions-after-all/381474/23 "2006-11-23T06:33:48Z")
[QUOTE=Kimstu] Yeah, I think that was **luc** ’s point. [/QUOTE] Yeah, I know. It’s just that whenever **'luc** and I agree on anything in any sort of way angels get wings, bunnies live forever, and everybody wins on 00. After betting the house. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2006, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-fuck-unions-after-all/381474/24 "2006-11-23T06:38:53Z")
[QUOTE=scr4] Anyway, serves you right for being so dependent on cars. Would it kill you to use public transport or bicycle for a couple of days? I have never in my life had to ask someone to pick me up at a car mechanic, or drop me off there. [/QUOTE] Ever try to ride a bicycle after a blizzard? Or during one? Or after an ice storm? It’s bad enough trying to navigate in a car, worse if navigating a bike among all that steel that can lose control at any given moment. Granted, the weather is reasonbly nice right now, but would it kill you to project this scenario a few months into the future? It’s nice you’ve found the nirvana necessary to not have any dependancy on a car. Kudos. But you’re in the minority on that one. A lot of people outside your sphere simply can’t use public transportation as an alternative. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2006, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-fuck-unions-after-all/381474/25 "2006-11-23T06:55:50Z")
I dunno what public transport is like in Madison, WI. When I drop my car off for service, I leave it early, take the bus to work ( leaving time for a one hour instead of a twenty minute trip), and when I take the bus back from work - voila! - my car is ready and waiting. Costs me a couple of hours every four or five months. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2006, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-fuck-unions-after-all/381474/26 "2006-11-23T07:06:32Z")
[QUOTE=Enter the Flagon] When I was a kid working at Midas, we didn’t have a single highly-skilled mechanic on our roster. Instead, we had guys who lacked training or experience. As soon as one of our guys got enough of either, he moved onto greener pastures. [/QUOTE] Ding! My point exactly. To go with that they have a horrible tendency to oversell. I once gave a guy a quote for a brake pad replacement about $80. He told me that that was too much he was headed to Midas. Their quote? TWELVE HUNDRED DOLLARS. He came back to me shaking his head. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2006, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-fuck-unions-after-all/381474/27 "2006-11-23T07:11:11Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > Ever try to ride a bicycle after a blizzard? Or during one? Or after an ice storm? Sure, when I had to. But a car repair usually isn’t so urgent that it needs to be done during a storm. > [@](#): > > It’s nice you’ve found the nirvana necessary to not have any dependancy on a car. Kudos. But you’re in the minority on that one. A lot of people outside your sphere simply can’t use public transportation as an alternative. Alabama is not a fricking nirvana. My car mechanic is 12 miles away because I have a 23-year old car that nobody else would work on. I still manage to get by. I do live less than 5 miles from work, but that’s a choice most people can make. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2006, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-fuck-unions-after-all/381474/28 "2006-11-23T07:32:13Z")
Is there a particular reason **Otto** can’t say “Hey, Boss, I need to leave at 1:30 today to get my car serviced. Fred’s agreed to cover for me”? Are **Otto** ’s working conditions so draconian? Maybe they needs to unionise 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2006, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-fuck-unions-after-all/381474/29 "2006-11-23T07:37:15Z")
[QUOTE=scr4] Alabama is not a fricking nirvana. My car mechanic is 12 miles away because I have a 23-year old car that nobody else would work on. I still manage to get by. I do live less than 5 miles from work, but that’s a choice most people can make. [/QUOTE] Whoah. I’m not attacking you here. I realize it may have seemed that way looking at it again. The hyperbole wasn’t a personal attack. I can’t imagine anyone hoping to have a job more than 5 miles away. I don’t, thankfully, but then I don’t live in a major metro area anymore. We’re a good-sized city, complete with running water and electricity, but not big enough to make a 20 mile commute anything other than a rarity. Have you been to Madison? It’s a bit spread out. Depending on where you work, living within 5 miles can be ridiculously expensive. Sometimes a car is needed. And, again, public transportation isn’t always a viable option. I have no idea what **Otto** ’s situation or circumstances are, but based on everything I’ve seen in the time I’ve spent there, this is a valid rant. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2006, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-fuck-unions-after-all/381474/30 "2006-11-23T07:39:05Z")
[QUOTE=MrDibble] Is there a particular reason **Otto** can’t say “Hey, Boss, I need to leave at 1:30 today to get my car serviced. Fred’s agreed to cover for me”? Are **Otto** ’s working conditions so draconian? Maybe they needs to unionise 🙂 [/QUOTE] Maybe he works in a union shop and the co-workers point to their contracts as reason to not have to cover his shift. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ea5d25/32.png) [@Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Scrappy_Hero_Pup)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2006, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-fuck-unions-after-all/381474/31 "2006-11-23T07:49:37Z")
A good union man takes the minor inconveniences that might be created by another union man’s struggle in stride, because his own inconvenience is a small price to pay for the upholding of the benefits that his brother has fought to earn. One key (but by no means the only key) to solidarity is to accept niggling inconvenience to oneself when it advances the struggle. So something didn’t get done when you’d like it. That sucks. I feel for you. But how far are you willing to impose your desire to have things one on your own time onto someone else? I don’t mean to say that your own situation isn’t a pain in the ass, but your forebearance is valuable. If I had a choice, I’d wait a day for a union man to do my job rather than have a 45-minute job done by someone else. So, if no other union man thanks you, this one does. (and if you know my posting histoy, you know I’m perfectly serious) ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2006, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-fuck-unions-after-all/381474/32 "2006-11-23T11:45:44Z")
I think the OP suffers from an extreme case of self-entitlement re the operating hours of his automobile dealership’s service department. In fact, though, the dealership’s service department is open when its open and closed when its not. The fact that the OPs call center operates 24/7 doesn’t mean one damn thing; if the dealer’s service department was a major profit center, it probably would be open 24/7. In my experience, many dealers would close their service departments permanently if the manufacturer would permit it. If there is any real profit made in dealership service departments, it is due to warranty work. I encourage the OP to take his car to Midas, or any other chain, and then pay the dealership double to straighten out the mess the untrained mechanics are likely to make. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2006, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-fuck-unions-after-all/381474/33 "2006-11-23T13:43:38Z")
[QUOTE=scr4] Anyway, serves you right for being so dependent on cars. Would it kill you to use public transport or bicycle for a couple of days? I have never in my life had to ask someone to pick me up at a car mechanic, or drop me off there. [/QUOTE] Fuck you and your sense of pseudo-superiority. There is no public transportation between where I live and where I work. I don’t own a bicycle and if I did I couldn’t ride it to work because there is no way to get from my house to my job without being on a highway where non-powered vehicles are illegal. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2006, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-fuck-unions-after-all/381474/34 "2006-11-23T13:50:32Z")
I’m just saying, if you can’t take a car to a shop without having to ask a friend for a ride, your community and/or your lifestyle has bigger problems than the auto mechanics’ union. ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2006, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-fuck-unions-after-all/381474/35 "2006-11-23T14:13:31Z")
**Otto** , while agree that 3 pm seems really early for a mechanic’s hours to end (I find them usually open 'till 5 around here), I think you may have just simply chosen a bum place to take your car to. If the repair is the same as the other thread (Altima, crank position sensor) I would guess that there are probably 75 mechanics in Madison that could fix it and half of them are open till 5 or so. It seems you jumped to conclusions after Midas said you had better go to a dealer. This isn’t a ‘union’ problem it’s a ‘dealer’ problem. If the mechanics stayed as late as they wanted or had an offset shift then the cashier and parts guy would have to stay open too. Dealers, for some reason have seperate positions for these three things whereas at your smaller shop the mechanic might be able to do all three while staying later. For a problem like yours that doesn’t seem too ‘dealer specific’ I would call a few other places nearby. Look for a clean place with at least 3 bays. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2006, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-fuck-unions-after-all/381474/36 "2006-11-23T14:24:15Z")
What union do auto mechanics belong to, anyway? ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2006, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-fuck-unions-after-all/381474/37 "2006-11-23T14:30:03Z")
> [@](#): > > Some automotive service technicians are members of labor unions such as the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers; the International Union, United Automobile, Aerospace and Agricultural Implement Workers of America; the Sheet Metal Workers’ International Association; and the International Brotherhood of Teamsters. [http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos181.htm](http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos181.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patty_O_Furniture)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2006, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-fuck-unions-after-all/381474/38 "2006-11-23T14:49:58Z")
I’m amazed to hear about such a shop that keeps bankers hours. My experience is the opposite - one shift works super early (6 am) and the second shift works late (shop closes at 6 or 7 pm). The next time you’re waiting for the service department to get around to waiting on you, walk around in the showroom to kill time. Every time a salesman sidles up to you and tries to get you interested in a new car, tell her that you won’t be buying from that dealership again because of their inconvenient shop hours. ---
**Author:** ![black\_rabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f19dbf/32.png) [@black\_rabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/black_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2006, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-fuck-unions-after-all/381474/39 "2006-11-23T15:07:21Z")
[QUOTE=Otto] My call center is staffed 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year including holidays. [/QUOTE] Fair enough. When I worked for the local DHS, there were times when nobody but managers were staffing our call center during operating hours, thanks to contract mandated flex time. Anyway, I’ve _never_ dropped a car off in the afternoon for anything more complicated than an oil change. Every shop I’ve ever used is usually booked by 8AM. That goes double for dealers. Come to think of it, most times I’ve had work done at the dealer, and haven’t managed to get the car in by the crack of dawn and make other arrangements to get to work, I’ve used the handy dealership drop-off service. Drive the car to the dealer after closing, put your key in an envelope with your phone number and a description of the problem, and drop the envelope in the handy little lock-box. It’s easier to make arrangements for a ride in the evenings. Then again, I choose to live within walking distance of where I work, so it’s a bit easier for me to deal with the commute. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2006, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-fuck-unions-after-all/381474/40 "2006-11-23T15:12:58Z")
Silly question - don’t your dealerships have courtesy cars? Or dropp-off/pick-up services? Our dealer (Renault) does. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-fuck-unions-after-all/381474.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-fuck-unions-after-all/381474.md?page=3)