# You know what, kidneyfailure? (about China) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 1, 2010, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-kidneyfailure-about-china/541482 "2010-06-01T11:56:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-kidneyfailure-about-china/541482/121 "2010-06-04T21:59:53Z")
> [@kidneyfailure](#): > > Did you guys read what I wrote? I said that was NOT something that would offend me in China because it was done out of ignorance, not spite or malice. I guess I didn’t make myself clear. But then why did you mention it? I thought we were talking about racism: > [@Koxinga](#): > > About the shouting “helloooo” thing – Imagine a Chinese person walking down the street in the US past a group of white guys, and the clown of the group pulls up the corners of his eyes, sticks out his buck teeth and says loudly, “Chingy chongy ching ching chong!” Ha ha ha ha, the whole group cracks up. That’s pretty much what it sounds like to me. > [@simple homer](#): > > Yes, that is a very good analogy. I do not believe that the “hellos” are done to be friendly. It is the only word in English that most of them know, so that is what they shout to try to impress or amuse each other. The laughing and giggling is what also confirms to me that they do not think they are being polite or friendly. ---
**Author:** ![kidneyfailure](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9f8e36/32.png) [@kidneyfailure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidneyfailure)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-kidneyfailure-about-china/541482/122 "2010-06-04T22:08:09Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > Is this kind of thing what you guys seriously think is being called racism? **I’m really confused by the last couple of examples of ‘see, I can live with racism’, i.e, hair-pulling and hat-removing, because they have absolutely nothing to do with racism**. For CHRISSAKES! THAT WAS NOT RACISM!!! Will you guys please take the time to actually read what I say? I was arguing that there was a difference in China between “racism” and “ignorance” and that oftentimes what foreigners in China see as “racism” is just “ignorance.” The hat thing I mentioned was an example of that. Chinese people don’t know that we in America would consider it impolite to say that someone is “so white” or “so black” or that someone’s “funny little hat” might be something significant. Therefore I DO NOT consider it racism because they just don’t know any better. Seriously, I apologize if I didn’t get my point across clearly, but do please try and read what I say. > [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > But then why did you mention it? I thought we were talking about racism: I was still talking about the difference between racism and ignorance in China. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-kidneyfailure-about-china/541482/123 "2010-06-04T22:21:23Z")
> [@kidneyfailure](#): > > I was still talking about the difference between racism and ignorance in China. Maybe I’m retarded but: Why? Why even bring up the difference between racism and ignorance in China? From the very beginning the discussion was about racism. The sort of racism that you know is racism. ---
**Author:** ![kidneyfailure](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9f8e36/32.png) [@kidneyfailure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidneyfailure)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-kidneyfailure-about-china/541482/124 "2010-06-04T22:29:14Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > Maybe I’m retarded but: Why? Why even bring up the difference between racism and ignorance in China? From the very beginning the discussion was about racism. The sort of racism that you know is racism. Ok, I’m really confused now. I think we misunderstood each other, **Melon**. I thought we were talking about how there is a difference between ignorance and racism and how what many foreigners in China see as “racism” is actually just ignorant behavior that the Chinese don’t know is offensive to us 😕:eek:😕:eek: Meh, to hell with it. I’m getting a drink. You want one? ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-kidneyfailure-about-china/541482/125 "2010-06-04T22:30:46Z")
> [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](#): > > Can you explain this? Do you mean that in Chinese TV shows, when they show foreign people (do they?) they show them greeting each other with "hello!"s? Is that different from how Chinese people greet each other? No, it’s more like when china was opening to the West in the 1980’s and there would newspaper aerticles explaining proper ettiquette on greeting a foreiger - eg a hale and hearty ‘hello.’ instead of yelling ‘hey’ to get someon’s attention, yell ‘hello’ as being more appropriate. Chinese tv shows with foreigners featured ‘hello’ in one fashion or another pretty frequently (not sure if this is still the case). If you talk with parents of little kids, they will often teach the kid to say ‘hello’. as in playing in a park, and a friendly child sees a foreign child and Mom teaches that it is polite manners to go up and say hello. Then you get the jerkish behavior when hello is shouted juat to get a reaction. China has a lot of people. especially if you’re away from the major cities, then foreigners are a novelty and the ‘hello’ ring out. A lot. It’s unending. It generally doesn’t feel friendly. There can be some jerkish behavior. And it can be irritating as fuck. even sven - sorry to hear about the asshole bar manager. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-kidneyfailure-about-china/541482/126 "2010-06-04T22:37:18Z")
> [@kidneyfailure](#): > > Ok, I’m really confused now. I think we misunderstood each other, **Melon**. > > I thought we were talking about how there is a difference between ignorance and racism and how what many foreigners in China see as “racism” is actually just ignorant behavior that the Chinese don’t know is offensive to us 😕:eek:😕:eek: The “HELLOOOOO!” thing has been mentioned since the beginning of the thread: > [@Koxinga](#): > > About the shouting “helloooo” thing – Imagine a Chinese person walking down the street in the US past a group of white guys, and the clown of the group pulls up the corners of his eyes, sticks out his buck teeth and says loudly, “Chingy chongy ching ching chong!” Ha ha ha ha, the whole group cracks up. That’s pretty much what it sounds like to me. > [@simple homer](#): > > Yes, that is a very good analogy. I do not believe that the “hellos” are done to be friendly. It is the only word in English that most of them know, so that is what they shout to try to impress or amuse each other. The laughing and giggling is what also confirms to me that they do not think they are being polite or friendly. Is this racism or simple, innocent curiosity gone wrong like in your example? ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-kidneyfailure-about-china/541482/127 "2010-06-04T22:38:56Z")
Thanks, guys. I’ve had a night’s sleep and a bit calmer now. I realize their are douchebags in every culture, but I really think less shit like this would happen if people saw me as “human,” and not “walking white vagina.” I’ve been in way too many situations where I have been treated as an object that people have a right to have sex with that range from the merely inappropriate to the violent and scary. I actually felt bad for _gasp_ being at a bar on a Friday night, as if I somehow brought it on myself. But you know what? Chinese people were there, without being manhandled. Western men were there, without being manhandled. Nobody would expect a Western male not to date or have a social life. I’m not doing anything inappropriate and I don’t deserve to be treated poorly. A couple months ago, I saw an anti-AIDS public service announcement. It was a cartoon where a man is prepositioned by a prostitute, and then his friend convinces him not to take her up on the deal. Everyone in the cartoon was clearly Asian, except the prostitute, who had blond hair, blue eyes and white skin. Yeah, China is just _swarming_ with Caucasian prostitutes. I draw a pretty direct line between shit like this and the shit that happens to me. The perception that foreign girls are “open” has a direct and harmful impact on my life. Someone at some point has got to decide to stop perpetuating this stuff. It’s hurting people. ---
**Author:** ![kidneyfailure](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9f8e36/32.png) [@kidneyfailure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidneyfailure)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-kidneyfailure-about-china/541482/128 "2010-06-04T22:39:48Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > Then you get the jerkish behavior when hello is shouted juat to get a reaction. China has a lot of people. especially if you’re away from the major cities, then foreigners are a novelty and the ‘hello’ ring out. A lot. It’s unending. It generally doesn’t feel friendly. There can be some jerkish behavior. And it can be irritating as fuck. And it happens so often that your default response to it can get to be something like, “shut the fuck up, you annoying piece of shit,” which can make for an akward situation during the rare times when people are actually saying “hello” to be friendly. I used to take a certain bus line to a friend’s house rather often. I’d have to pass by a middle school where, of course, I’d get all kinds of “helloooooooo” thrown at me. I just ignored it and simmered. One day, while walking by the school in question, someone said “hello” to me and I lost it. I started screaming at this guy, telling him to stop being such a rude asshole and why the fuck couldn’t I just walk past a school to a fucking bus stop without someone being a dick to me?! Guy says, “Uh, I think you’ve mistaken me for someone else. I’m so-and-so, a friend of your friend so-and-so, and he said I should look you could help me with blah blah blah.” Man, did I feel like an idiot. ---
**Author:** ![kidneyfailure](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9f8e36/32.png) [@kidneyfailure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidneyfailure)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-kidneyfailure-about-china/541482/129 "2010-06-04T22:46:39Z")
Missed window: > [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > Is this racism or simple, innocent curiosity gone wrong like in your example? Depends. Sometimes it’s innocent ignorance, most of the time it’s racist assholishness when adults say it. I think the “ching chong” example is a good comparison. I used to say shit like that when I was a little kid, not to be racist or hurt anyone…I was just a little dumbass who didn’t know what it meant. I certainly wouldn’t say something like that now because I know better. I usually let little kids slide with the “hello” thing. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-kidneyfailure-about-china/541482/130 "2010-06-04T22:50:44Z")
> [@kidneyfailure](#): > > Depends. Sometimes it’s innocent ignorance, most of the time it’s racist assholishness when adults say it. I think the “ching chong” example is a good comparison. I used to say shit like that when I was a little kid, not to be racist or hurt anyone…I was just a little dumbass who didn’t know what it meant. I certainly wouldn’t say something like that now because I know better. I usually let little kids slide with the “hello” thing. You’re right, it certainly sounds like it’s racism most of the time. I’m glad we agree. ---
**Author:** ![kidneyfailure](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9f8e36/32.png) [@kidneyfailure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidneyfailure)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-kidneyfailure-about-china/541482/131 "2010-06-04T22:58:53Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Thanks, guys. I’ve had a night’s sleep and a bit calmer now. > > I realize their are douchebags in every culture, but I really think less shit like this would happen if people saw me as “human,” and not “walking white vagina.” I’ve been in way too many situations where I have been treated as an object that people have a right to have sex with that range from the merely inappropriate to the violent and scary. > > I actually felt bad for _gasp_ being at a bar on a Friday night, as if I somehow brought it on myself. But you know what? Chinese people were there, without being manhandled. Western men were there, without being manhandled. Nobody would expect a Western male not to date or have a social life. I’m not doing anything inappropriate and I don’t deserve to be treated poorly. Y’know **even sven** , last night I was thinking about what you said about how few female expats there are and I surely should have noticed that by now, right? Now that I think back on it, I realize that the only women I know (besides Chinese female co-workers) are the Chinese wives or girlfriends of my foreign friends. I think that I’ve only known maybe three foreign women in all the years that I’ve lived here (and those three all left early IIRC) and now I can’t even think of a single one that I know or even have an acquaintance with. It never even occurred to me before. Pretty sad, though. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-kidneyfailure-about-china/541482/132 "2010-06-04T23:02:11Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > Maybe I’m retarded but: Why? Why even bring up the difference between racism and ignorance in China? From the very beginning the discussion was about racism. The sort of racism that you know is racism. > [@kidneyfailure](#): > > Ok, I’m really confused now. I think we misunderstood each other, **Melon**. > > I thought we were talking about how there is a difference between ignorance and racism and how what many foreigners in China see as “racism” is actually just ignorant behavior that the Chinese don’t know is offensive to us 😕:eek:😕:eek: > > Meh, to hell with it. I’m getting a drink. You want one? Get a room you two. This is the pit, enough with the truth and reconciliation. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-kidneyfailure-about-china/541482/133 "2010-06-04T23:17:45Z")
> [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#): > > Get a room you two. This is the pit, enough with the truth and reconciliation. 😉 I’ve done no reconciling! Uh, you’re mother’s a cancerous whore! And, um, your sister fucked the family dog! And you’re both _ **retarded** _! Yeah! America! Fuck yeah! ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-kidneyfailure-about-china/541482/134 "2010-06-04T23:27:08Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > And you’re both _ **retarded** _! Dude, [we can’t say that word anymore](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/20100205/ts_ynews/ynews_ts1114). ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-kidneyfailure-about-china/541482/135 "2010-06-04T23:30:33Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > I’ve done no reconciling! > > Uh, you’re mother’s a cancerous whore! > > And, um, your sister fucked the family dog! > > And you’re both _ **retarded** _! Yeah! America! Fuck yeah! Tha’s better. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-kidneyfailure-about-china/541482/136 "2010-06-04T23:33:58Z")
And yeah! I used ‘you’re’ incorrectly! Fuck China! ---
**Author:** ![Ostrya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/35a633/32.png) [@Ostrya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ostrya)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-kidneyfailure-about-china/541482/137 "2010-06-04T23:44:27Z")
AClockworkMelon, is there not a thread that you don’t drive by, shit on, and attempt to derail one way or another? Christ man, some of us here including me should get more of a life, but come on, dude. You’ve already won the prolific poster award. What more are you hoping to achieve? ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-kidneyfailure-about-china/541482/138 "2010-06-05T00:03:27Z")
You just made it painfully fucking obvious that you didn’t read the thread to begin with, considering I was having what I considered to be fruitful conversation throughout the length of the thread up until those last two posts which were a response to a joke made by **3rd dimension**. Go away. ---
**Author:** ![kidneyfailure](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9f8e36/32.png) [@kidneyfailure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidneyfailure)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-kidneyfailure-about-china/541482/139 "2010-06-05T00:09:48Z")
> [@the lone cashew](#): > > AClockworkMelon, is there not a thread that you don’t drive by, shit on, and attempt to derail one way or another? Christ man, some of us here including me should get more of a life, but come on, dude. > You’ve already won the prolific poster award. What more are you hoping to achieve? He seemed to have been doing just fine in this thread to me. He posed some good questions and gave some good responses and kept a good sense of humor about it all. I don’t see the problem. You’d probably be better off bitchin out **Rand Rover** and **ivan astikov** for their dumbass attempts to derail the thread. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-kidneyfailure-about-china/541482/140 "2010-06-05T00:17:46Z")
Sorry for derailing the thread, I guess. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-kidneyfailure-about-china/541482.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-kidneyfailure-about-china/541482.md?page=8)