# You know what, kidneyfailure? (about China) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 1, 2010, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-kidneyfailure-about-china/541482 "2010-06-01T11:56:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-kidneyfailure-about-china/541482/141 "2010-06-05T01:13:45Z")
> [@simple\_homer](#): > > The only problem is that it would just confirm the stereotype that we are here just to entertain them by being the “dancing monkey”. > I seriously doubt they would understand any of the sarcasm anyway. > > Several times I have entered new classrooms just to have the first 10 or so questions from the students being some version of “will you sing and dance for us ?” > I always tell them I will never do that. These are high school and university students, not little kids. > > Sometimes I do feel as though we are viewed as less than human. > About once a week someone will walk up to me and put their face in my face and stare at me without looking away. It is as though they are viewing a monkey in the zoo. I know that sounds extreme, but it does happen. Uh . . . wow. Tell me, did any of those students or starers survive the experience? It would be dicey for them were I the protagonist. > [@kidneyfailure](#): > > You’d probably be better off bitchin out **Rand Rover** and **ivan astikov** for their dumbass attempts to derail the thread. I wasn’t trying to derail the thread. I just wanted to make sure that even sven knows she’s a do-gooder good-for-nothing loser. ---
**Author:** ![kidneyfailure](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9f8e36/32.png) [@kidneyfailure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidneyfailure)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-kidneyfailure-about-china/541482/142 "2010-06-05T01:18:37Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > I wasn’t trying to derail the thread. I just wanted to make sure that even sven knows she’s a do-gooder good-for-nothing loser. Well, start your own Pit thread about her then. Hell, this thread is about how big of an asshole I am, and I still don’t appreciate you trying to take it off track. Seemed like we all actually were coming close to some kind of understanding and then what you said brought nothing substantial at all. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-kidneyfailure-about-china/541482/143 "2010-06-05T01:35:57Z")
> [@kidneyfailure](#): > > Well, start your own Pit thread about her then. Hell, this thread is about how big of an asshole I am, and I still don’t appreciate you trying to take it off track. Seemed like we all actually were coming close to some kind of understanding and then what you said brought nothing substantial at all. Wow. This is actually almost a reasonable pit thread . Hats off to you **kf.** ---
**Author:** ![Ostrya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/35a633/32.png) [@Ostrya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ostrya)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-kidneyfailure-about-china/541482/144 "2010-06-05T01:39:10Z")
My comment was inappropriate - even if I was in the right thread. I apologize. ---
**Author:** ![simple\_homer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@simple\_homer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simple_homer)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-kidneyfailure-about-china/541482/145 "2010-06-05T01:50:32Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Uh . . . wow. Tell me, did any of those students or starers survive the experience? It would be dicey for them were I the protagonist. Violence would just confirm another negative stereotype that they have about us. Some of Chinese teachers were appalled at the students questions. Some of the other Chinese teachers were confused as to why I would refuse the students requests. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-kidneyfailure-about-china/541482/146 "2010-06-05T02:06:49Z")
> [@simple\_homer](#): > > Violence would just confirm another negative stereotype that they have about us. > > Some of Chinese teachers were appalled at the students questions. > Some of the other Chinese teachers were confused as to why I would refuse the students requests. Christ almighty. I’ve decided that I will either (i) never go to China or (ii) not have a drop of alcohol while I’m there. ---
**Author:** ![kidneyfailure](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9f8e36/32.png) [@kidneyfailure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidneyfailure)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-kidneyfailure-about-china/541482/147 "2010-06-05T02:18:07Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Christ almighty. \*\*I’ve decided that I will \*\*either (i) \*\*never go to China \*\*or (ii) not have a drop of alcohol while I’m there. See, this is what I don’t like to see! This is a perfect example of my whole point or argument or thesis if you will: say bad things about China without balancing that with the good things and people will get a bad image of this place and start to avoid coming here or will form incorrect, inaccurate opinions about it! This is why I think the balanced picture is so important. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-kidneyfailure-about-china/541482/148 "2010-06-05T02:22:19Z")
> [@kidneyfailure](#): > > See, this is what I don’t like to see! This is a perfect example of my whole point or argument or thesis if you will: say bad things about China without balancing that with the good things and people will get a bad image of this place and start to avoid coming here or will form incorrect, inaccurate opinions about it! This is why I think the balanced picture is so important. Balanced picture my ass. The Great Wall and Tiennenmen Square and whatever-the-fuck that’s cool to see there doesn’t balance out a bunch of five-foot dickless motherfuckers getting in my face and asking me to sing and dance. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-kidneyfailure-about-china/541482/149 "2010-06-05T02:29:54Z")
Rand Rover has been Cracking. Me. Up. lately. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-kidneyfailure-about-china/541482/150 "2010-06-05T02:32:38Z")
China can be a great place but it’s certainly not for everyone. The thing is China experienced at least a century of anarchy, civil war, japanese invasion, post revolutionary poitical movements, mass starvation, the cultural revolution, decades of global isolation, tian’anmen, opening to the west, an economy that has more than doubled twice in the past 20 years to what we have today. Throw in far too many people, different personal space and privacy norms, and at least I take they view that things have turned out pretty well considering (with plenty of room for improvement). Certainly china could be really messed up instead of what it is today. ---
**Author:** ![kidneyfailure](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9f8e36/32.png) [@kidneyfailure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidneyfailure)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-kidneyfailure-about-china/541482/151 "2010-06-05T02:34:04Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Balanced picture my ass. The Great Wall and Tiennenmen Square and whatever-the-fuck that’s cool to see there doesn’t balance out a bunch of five-foot dickless motherfuckers getting in my face and asking me to sing and dance. Please grow the fuck up, you mean-spirited shit. Yeah, there are stupid shitheads who would say offensive things like that, but the VAST VAST VAST VAST majority of people here will bend over backwards for you. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-kidneyfailure-about-china/541482/152 "2010-06-05T02:58:27Z")
> [@kidneyfailure](#): > > … the VAST VAST VAST VAST majority of people here will bend over backwards for you. Just popping in to vouch for that. I’ve been in China more than once, and pretty much all of my experiences with the people, including officials, have been nothing but positive. The only black mark would be the overly aggressive street touts in Shanghai; even the touts in Beijing seem to take no for an answer at least the second time, but I had guys in Shanghai following me down the street insisting I buy stuff from them, and I just couldn’t shake them. Otherwise, it’s been nothing but good. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-kidneyfailure-about-china/541482/153 "2010-06-05T02:58:58Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > Rand Rover has been Cracking. Me. Up. lately. Seconded. I love how his weak spots are so weird. “AH! Chinese guys asking me to dance like a monkey! My worst nightmare has come true!” ---
**Author:** ![Waffle\_Decider](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/77aa72/32.png) [@Waffle\_Decider](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waffle_Decider)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-kidneyfailure-about-china/541482/154 "2010-06-05T03:08:40Z")
> [@kidneyfailure](#): > > Please grow the fuck up, you mean-spirited shit. Yeah, there are stupid shitheads who would say offensive things like that, but the VAST VAST VAST VAST majority of people here will bend over backwards for you. That may be true for a white person, but do you believe that things will still be the same if you were black or brown? ---
**Author:** ![kidneyfailure](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9f8e36/32.png) [@kidneyfailure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidneyfailure)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-kidneyfailure-about-china/541482/155 "2010-06-05T03:50:11Z")
> [@Waffle\_Decider](#): > > That may be true for a white person, but do you believe that things will still be the same if you were black or brown? I don’t imagine most people would actually go out of their way to mistreat a black person in China. There might be some of the, “you’re so black” type of ignorant comments from people who don’t know any better similar to what I mentioned earlier, though. However, I’m not black so I can’t really comment. I’m also not a woman, so I can’t really comment on that issue, either. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-kidneyfailure-about-china/541482/156 "2010-06-05T04:14:28Z")
> [@kidneyfailure](#): > > For CHRISSAKES! THAT WAS NOT RACISM!!! > > Will you guys please take the time to actually read what I say? I was arguing that there was a difference in China between “racism” and “ignorance” and that oftentimes what foreigners in China see as “racism” is just "ignorance. No I get it, but I just don’t think many people would characterize those types of things as racism. And if you think even sven does then you vastly underestimate her analytic ability. That’s all. You’re all good people, I have no issues with anyone. Just trying to smooth the path to understanding. ---
**Author:** ![kidneyfailure](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9f8e36/32.png) [@kidneyfailure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidneyfailure)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-kidneyfailure-about-china/541482/157 "2010-06-05T04:50:55Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > That’s all. You’re all good people, I have no issues with anyone. Just trying to smooth the path to understanding. I’m happy this thread was started. I’ve had a chance to read some more stuff from **even sven** and get to understand her a little bit more than I did before. I feel pretty bad about some of the things I said to her in previous threads, but I won’t apologize for feeling that I’d like to see a better picture of China than she paints on here. Anyway, **even sven** : I’m sorry that I was rude to you before, sorry that I was a jerk, and sorry that you have not enjoyed your time here. I was wrong to say that you were a Sinophobe; I’m sure you are not. You’re probably just some headstrong kid trying to do what you think is right. I’m pretty much the same…I just have a real boisterous personality and my feelings always come out in odd ways. I will still say how I feel in future threads, but I’d like to think you & I can just be civil and move past this shit. No harm no foul, ok? :::wipes eyes::: But, this _is_ the Pit, so: FUCK ALL OF YOU! YOU’RE ALL A BUNCH OF ASSHOLES!!! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-kidneyfailure-about-china/541482/158 "2010-06-05T05:23:56Z")
_group hug_ I’ll admit I am pretty self-righteous and do talk out of my ass on occasion. It’d be wrong to say I haven’t enjoyed my time here. I have. It’s just been hard in ways that I’ve never expected, and the rewards are a lot more subtle. For as hard as it’s been to get through the days, I’m glad I came here and I’m glad I stuck it out through the years. I really do have a lot of affection for China, though in a bittersweet kind of way. I’m sure in time the sharpness of the day-to-day problems will fade and I’ll be able to see the good more clearly. We will always have differing opinions on some subjects, and no doubt we will both continue to express them. But I promise you that none of it is personal, and I trust that the same goes for you. I’m really glad you found something that works for you, and can only hope I end up someplace I am equally passionate about. Friends? And you guys are all worthless human beings!!! ---
**Author:** ![kidneyfailure](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9f8e36/32.png) [@kidneyfailure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidneyfailure)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-kidneyfailure-about-china/541482/159 "2010-06-05T06:01:13Z")
**group hug** **China Guy** & **simple homer** , get over here and give me and **even sven** some love. **Koxinga** you’d better get up in this lovefest, too! **Waffle Decider** , where you at, bud? I got a hug with your name on it! **AClockWorkMelon** , you don’t live in China, you don’t have a dog in this fight, but get over here and plant one on me, ya adorable little shit! **Attack from the 3rd dimension** and **Isamu** , don’t think I forgot about you guys! **Nzinga, Seated** and **Siam Sam** , you guys only popped in once or twice, but I’ve got some love for you two, as well. \*We will always have differing opinions on some subjects, and no doubt we will both continue to express them. But I promise you that none of it is personal, and I trust that the same goes for you. I’m really glad you found something that works for you, and can only hope I end up someplace I am equally passionate about. \* Ok, **sven**. From now on, if we butt heads in other threads and I start acting like a jerk please call me on it. I will try to modify my statements accordingly. Nothing personal, I promise. _Friends?_ You got it, kid. Has a Pit thread ever turned out like this before??? ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-kidneyfailure-about-china/541482/160 "2010-06-05T06:19:27Z")
Jeez man, got on the plane in taipei a little while ago and the wotrld was in flames, get off the plaane in shanghai and there’s a love-fest going on. Wonder if there’s an analogy in there somewhere. I even managed to have a couple of non-virtual beers with Koxinga. Although since I’m hanging up my chopsticks in 2 weeks, an all China dopefest is going to have to be without me or wait for a business trip. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-kidneyfailure-about-china/541482.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-kidneyfailure-about-china/541482.md?page=9)