# You know what this election reminds me of right now? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 27, 2015, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-this-election-reminds-me-of-right-now/741461 "2015-12-27T14:45:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-this-election-reminds-me-of-right-now/741461/41 "2015-12-28T01:07:31Z")
> [@Mr.Nylock](#): > > I’m a Sanders supporter - so it doesn’t bother me in the least that trump does not have more support. Unfortunately, however, according to your way thinking, the Sanders folks are even more fringe and crazy ☹ No, because Sanders isn’t saying crazy and racist stuff. ---
**Author:** ![GloryDays](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e9c0ed/32.png) [@GloryDays](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GloryDays)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-this-election-reminds-me-of-right-now/741461/42 "2015-12-28T01:14:45Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > No, because Sanders isn’t saying crazy and racist stuff. Both Trump and Sanders are somewhat crazy. Sanders wants to tax the hell out of Wall Street, Trump wants to ban Muslims from entering the U.S. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-this-election-reminds-me-of-right-now/741461/43 "2015-12-28T01:15:54Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > I don’t see that it’s any less predictable than, say, 2008, on either the Dem or the GOP side that year. > > At this point eight years ago, Hillary and Obama were pretty close in the polls, and Edwards wasn’t that far behind. Correct. Except in case of incumbents, it’s almost always unpredictable at this point. This time, the outlier in predictability is on the Democratic side, where consistent polling results, and the sentiment of party leaders seen in endorsements, strongly point in the same direction. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-this-election-reminds-me-of-right-now/741461/44 "2015-12-28T01:40:16Z")
> [@GloryDays](#): > > Both Trump and Sanders are somewhat crazy. Sanders wants to tax the hell out of Wall Street, Trump wants to ban Muslims from entering the U.S. Those are not equivalent. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-this-election-reminds-me-of-right-now/741461/45 "2015-12-28T03:18:04Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Well, or they at least _think_ their interests will be served and circumstances improved. Which is an equivalent state of mind as those who believe the lies of the left that the political class use to gain power with counterproductive economic policy. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-this-election-reminds-me-of-right-now/741461/46 "2015-12-28T03:37:26Z")
> [@GloryDays](#): > > Both Trump and Sanders are somewhat crazy. Sanders wants to tax the hell out of Wall Street, Trump wants to ban Muslims from entering the U.S. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Those are not equivalent. Well, they are in the sense that neither one is going to happen. 😃 But yeah, comparing a tax to banning Muslims from either the US is absurd. The latter might not even be constitutional, but it is completely impractical (as well as being unethical). ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-this-election-reminds-me-of-right-now/741461/47 "2015-12-28T07:56:56Z")
> [@Mr.Nylock](#): > > …On your second point, is it your position that Trump is not doing un-PC things that would have been unthinkable for a candidate until now? It is my position that Mr Trump is saying things that are positively repulsive. If such things were previously unthinkable, its news to me. Seems like I’ve been hearing shit like that all my born days, and there’s a bunch of them. It is further my position that if Trump wins the Republican nomination, the mortal remains of Barry Goldwater will claw out of the ground and walk to the Pacific, and swim away… ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-this-election-reminds-me-of-right-now/741461/48 "2015-12-28T11:17:10Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > The critical difference this time, as pointed out by the OP, is the “horse race” has a zebra and a giraffe entered as well as the usual assortment of horses (plus a jackass or two :D)). > > It’s the presence of the exotic beasts that categorically change the prediction problem from unknown to unknowable. And that categorical difference is the salient feature of 2016. Which \*\*RTFirefly \*\*dismisses in error IMO. > > National elections are always _sui generis_ in the major democracies. This one is especially \*sui \* though. The assertion of the OP, which I was disagreeing with, is that the zebra and the giraffe make the nominating process and outcome far more unpredictable than usual. > [@wolfpup](#): > > Agreed, and that’s the point. To take the example of Obama and Hillary being close in '08, that was true but the fact was that either of them or Edwards would have made a perfectly reasonable president. Today I think there is a sense of disquiet and even foreboding about the Republican slate. The former is like being on a car trip and knowing that while in theory “anything could happen”, realistically the worse is that you might be late. The current situation is like knowing that there’s a genuinely high probability that the wheels might fall off, or perhaps more aptly, that anything could happen because your driver might be a crazy person. Yeah, but that’s outside the scope of the OP - unless you think that a sufficient number of Republicans are going to look down the road and say, “hey, we don’t really _want_ Trump (or Cruz) as President, because they’re freakin’ _crazy_, so we’re gonna vote for Rubio or whoever.” It’s quite possible that that could happen, but even that’s within the scope of recent history, e.g. the ‘stop Goldwater’ movement of 1964. The genuine open question here is whether the media will openly talk about how crazy Trump and Cruz really are. They’re so invested in their ‘view from nowhere,’ where they supposedly don’t have opinions, but OTOH these guys may finally be too much GOP craziness for even them to swallow. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-this-election-reminds-me-of-right-now/741461/49 "2015-12-28T17:48:58Z")
Its exciting to watch until you realize that the fate of the country is going to be decided in the next few months, possibly for the worst. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-this-election-reminds-me-of-right-now/741461/50 "2015-12-28T18:21:16Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > It’s quite possible that that could happen, but even that’s within the scope of recent history, e.g. the ‘stop Goldwater’ movement of 1964. > > The genuine open question here is whether the media will openly talk about how crazy Trump and Cruz really are. They’re so invested in their ‘view from nowhere,’ where they supposedly don’t have opinions, but OTOH these guys may finally be too much GOP craziness for even them to swallow. In your guts, you know they are nuts. ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-this-election-reminds-me-of-right-now/741461/51 "2015-12-28T18:24:58Z")
> [@Mr.Nylock](#): > > It’s not about his views so much as he is breaking many of the PC taboos that are hindering more serious discussion about certain issues, issues which happen to largely affect working class people. Yes, I agree. So many problems can be solved now that we are relieved of the burden of not speaking of lady newscasters’ bloody vaginas. > [@](#): > > I think you make some really good points about the vagueness of Trump’s positions. I believe, on the other hand, that saying such things as “stereotypical” Trump supporter exemplify the problem itself by applying extreme behavior that is demonstrated by extreme outliers and applying it to the whole; and this merely serves to derail more serious discussion of the issues and their merit or lack thereof. > > Politics is a study in tradeoffs. How do we divide our limited resources? > > Do we spend more money on welfare or do we lower the taxes on the working > man/woman? In recent years this has come to mean “if you don’t support welfare you’re racist pig fulminating in white privilege.” > > If you bring up that men are now vastly underrepresented on college campuses you’re called a mysogenist. > > If you worry about immigration policies affecting job opportunities for citizens you’re called a xenophobic bigot racist. I’ll admit this can be a bad trap for elites to fall into. But let’s not pretend it isn’t a two-way street. Academics have studied the impact of, say, immigration on employment levels in the communities most affected. And they’ve consistently found that immigrants do not take jobs away. But this point gets lost in the noise from the right-wing about how pressing one for English is iconoclasm aimed at our Anglo culture. So eventually folks give up, assume the anti-immigration types are xenophobic racists, and call a spade a spade. If you want to see this effect in action on this very board (but on a different issue), look no further than our own DerekMichaels. Every thread it’s “Obama disrespected Israel.” He gets called on it every time. Is there ever a counter argument - something based in facts or logic? Even an attempt? No. But the same claim gets trotted out again, in a new thread, the next week. Eventually you just give up on a mind that closed. > [@](#): > > I think many people want more serious discussion on these issues - even a significantly large portion of Trump supporters. No, there is no desire for a serious discussion. Serious discussions are hard, and require deep thinking and reading and educating yourself on issues. Understanding things like the impact of immigration on employment levels. Trump supporters don’t want this. They want easy answers, based on “common sense.” They want platitudes that confirm what they already think. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-this-election-reminds-me-of-right-now/741461/52 "2015-12-28T18:25:04Z")
There is a way forward. The whole mess is because the Republican Party made a deal with the Devil, thinking they could _control_ the knuckle-walking right. Keep telling them that _this_ is the year of their deliverance, just _one more_ big push, and no more gay marriage, abortion and secular atheism. Also, vegans. Took the dimwits about thirty years to catch on, but they did, and now they are _pissed_! The way forward is for the Republican Party to repent, ditch the Troglodyte Right, and settle into the honest but modest power of the Loyal Opposition. An honorable, worthy and patriotic course, a center right party that does not reject change but only insists on prudence and caution. Me? Tequila and bongwater, why do you ask? ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-this-election-reminds-me-of-right-now/741461/53 "2015-12-28T18:31:20Z")
Careful what you ask for, elucidator. Plenty of folks like me who became democrats precisely because the republican party went nuts (my phrasing). Make them a reasonable party without the baggage of the lunatic fringe and the religious right and they could win people like me. Coke Zero and McDonald’s cheeseburger. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-this-election-reminds-me-of-right-now/741461/54 "2015-12-28T18:39:21Z")
Fine! We _need_ honest conservatives, we need to subject our projects to analysis and criticism, because we be human. Also, we need someone to blame. If we need the votes of people who press for an English as a second language program for gay whales, we need to be able to say “Well, the Republicans won’t let us do that, darn shame, maybe next year, if you vote for us…” ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-this-election-reminds-me-of-right-now/741461/55 "2015-12-28T18:48:00Z")
Isn’t that exactly what you’re saying they’re doing to their fringe guys? _J’accuse!_ ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-this-election-reminds-me-of-right-now/741461/56 "2015-12-28T18:53:06Z")
Politics will continue to be practiced by human beings, angels have no politics. Also, their fringe guys frequently want to kill folks. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-this-election-reminds-me-of-right-now/741461/57 "2015-12-28T19:12:08Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > You know what this election reminds me of right now? > > That moment before the surgeon starts to cut. > > For all that the pundits - and us - will waste ink and pixels on how things are going the Republican contest is so unusual that no one knows what the hell is going to happen. Usually by this time there’s a clear path for a few candidates. This time there’s merely strangeness. > > With Iowa just a month plus a few days away we’re left with a sense that anything could happen. The GOP leadership appears to be reduced to hoping that Trump pulls a Dean and his supporters don’t turn out in Iowa and New Hampshire. Nothing they’ve seemed to do has turned the polls effectively. I’m convinced they believe that Trump will be a disaster in the general and downballot. The best alternative, Cruz, is the same way but to a lesser degree. > > It’s a strange one. We can talk all we want - and we will, God knows - but having to wait for a completely unpredictable outcome is jarring. The pundits are clearly confused because THEY know that they are much smarter than everyone else and can’t understand why the voters aren’t acting as the pundits are expecting (demanding?) they act. And the pundits are too smart to figure out that their personal biases and spin might be the reason the voters find the pundits unbelievable. Shocking. The answer is simple. The potential voters don’t believe the pundits. Nor do they believe the news media. Polls this far out might point to a trend, maybe. The bottomline is that the candidates who get the most votes at the party conventions will head the parties. The candidate who gets the most Electoral College votes will become the next President. Same as every other national election. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-this-election-reminds-me-of-right-now/741461/58 "2015-12-28T19:12:10Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > In your guts, you know they are nuts. And in your brain, you know they’re insane. Ah, memories of 1964. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-this-election-reminds-me-of-right-now/741461/59 "2015-12-28T22:51:16Z")
When LBJ was the peace candidate. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-this-election-reminds-me-of-right-now/741461/60 "2015-12-28T23:09:19Z")
> [@Mr.Nylock](#): > > You misunderstand me, and I think in a very fundamental way. My experience in the the blue collar world is not that we do not disrespect education. The vast majority of people I have worked with respect it highly. What they do not respect is when one uses their education to talk above them, deceive them, manipulate them etc. They know that education is something that is good to have - many of them wish they had that opportunity. They see their situation as one where their circumstances, lack of academic ability, or poor choices have lead them to having this particular lot in life. > > It would be similar to a situation where physical size and strength were as important for status and power as education is today. If there was someone naturally much larger and more powerful than you would you respect them if that power was used only to degrade, threaten and intimidate you, your family, and others like you? > > On your second point, is it your position that Trump is not doing un-PC things that would have been unthinkable for a candidate until now? You do a lot of talking “for” people. You don’t think they might have a problem with that? I think I do. Brute strength and intellectual insight are not analogous. In fact insight is what took us beyond that and separated us from animals and nature. It makes us human. When was the last time someone used their diploma to degrade threaten and intimidate you, and why would it be appropriate to blame education itself for that? You have a very low opinion of your fellow citizens. “Loopholes” political connections, lawyerism, I can see. But just “That dude bullied me with his big diploma”? Coming out against thinking, and using words like elitist, aristocratic and condescending, is an old ploy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-this-election-reminds-me-of-right-now/741461.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-what-this-election-reminds-me-of-right-now/741461.md?page=4)