# You Know What's Gonna Be Awkward? Jimmy Carter's Funeral. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 20, 2020, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-whats-gonna-be-awkward-jimmy-carters-funeral/854176 "2020-05-20T12:59:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![installLSC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/54ee81/32.png) [@installLSC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/installLSC)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2020, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-whats-gonna-be-awkward-jimmy-carters-funeral/854176/41 "2020-05-21T16:42:22Z")
> [@installLSC](#): > > Trump wasn’t invited to McCain’s funeral despite the fact they were from the same party. All healthy former presidents, including Carter, were. “Decent” and “gutless” are not the same thing. A quick wiki check shows Trump didn’t speak at George Bush’s funeral either, which is not surprising considering the first Bush had openly critized Trump and admitted he voted for Hilary Clinton. So Bush’s funeral found time for Brian Mulroney and the Oak Ridge Boys, but not the sitting president. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2020, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-whats-gonna-be-awkward-jimmy-carters-funeral/854176/42 "2020-05-21T18:16:46Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > …Trump doesn’t go to Carter’s funeral. He will send Pence whom will make a boring speech with bible quotes that can appeal to both the left and right. This. > [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > That is actually more offensive than Trump going himself. Carter is an affirmed evangelical Southern Baptist but he never proselytizes or tries to force his beliefs on others, nor did he try to institute his beliefs as policy. Pence is…the opposite. > > Stranger Naw, Pence will be bland and boring, and say generic Christian things that aren’t offensive. ---
**Author:** ![Boycott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boycott/32/6741_2.png) [@Boycott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boycott)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2020, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-whats-gonna-be-awkward-jimmy-carters-funeral/854176/43 "2020-05-21T19:03:03Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > **I read someplace that soon after the inauguration someone from the Military District of Washington meets with the new president to discuss funeral plans. I’ll bet they update those from time to time, even for retired presidents.** > > Another awkward one would be if the UK queen passes while Trump is still president. Presumably he will be expected to attend, but without making it about him. That’s correct. President Carter would have made his initial funeral plans almost half a century ago. It would have been almost half a century since he got to drive on public roads too. Once you become president you lose that freedom for life. Maybe he gets to do the odd lap around the peanut farm. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2020, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-whats-gonna-be-awkward-jimmy-carters-funeral/854176/44 "2020-05-21T21:01:08Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > I would assume the poster in question is referring to the authoritarian regime of Suharto, the dictator of Indonesia whose gradual but effective overthrow of the democratically elected Sukarno and 1975 invasion of East Timor (under the Ford Administration) was tacitly backed by the CIA and support for which was continued under the Carter Administration to the approximate tune of US$250M of weapons and aid and the deaths of an estimated 200k Timorese. Even if that was what he meant, the death toll in just the Central American civil wars was far greater than that, and the right-wing forces were supported by the Republican administrations before and after Carter to a greater extent than Carter did. And Suharto’s purge of Communists in 1965, with a death toll of anywhere from half a million to several million, had US support. Of course Suharto continued to be supported by the US after Carter. **Asuka’s** allegation that Carter caused more deaths by supporting 3rd World Dictators than other presidents during that era is simply ludicrous. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2020, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-whats-gonna-be-awkward-jimmy-carters-funeral/854176/45 "2020-05-21T21:30:32Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > **Asuka’s** allegation that Carter caused more deaths by supporting 3rd World Dictators than other presidents during that era is simply ludicrous. Yeah, I agree. I was just referencing the particular event that is typically identified by people wanting to argue that “Carter was a blood-thirsty maniac like all the rest, see!” which is what happens when you listen to Noam Chomsky and don’t thoroughly fact-check his claims. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Boycott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boycott/32/6741_2.png) [@Boycott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boycott)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2020, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-whats-gonna-be-awkward-jimmy-carters-funeral/854176/46 "2020-05-21T23:33:24Z")
A story about Jimmy Carter by a former Secret Service agent named Jerry Parr (the man who got Reagan into the car after being shot at) > [@](#): > > While President Carter took chances with his personal safety, he never wanted to risk harming others. But in desperation he approved a highly dangerous secret commando mission to free the hostages. In the pre-dawn darkness of April 25th 1980, eight helicopters rendezvoused in the desert. A fierce sandstorm stuck forcing three choppers to return to their ship. At least six helicopters would be required to carry everyone out. Only five remained and the mission was aborted. Then things got even worse. Preparing to leave the desert - before taking off - eight men were killed and at least one survivor was horribly burned when a helicopter collided with a C-130 support aircraft in a refuelling area near the site. > > The United States was humiliated. With the element of surprise now blown, another rescue mission attempt would be impossible. The militants immediately dispersed the hostages to different parts of Tehran. After that Carter almost never smiled. I saw him losing weight. His grief for the hostages was now magnified by losing the rescuers. And I imagined he grieved for his own helplessness. > > A week after the failed rescue he said to me _“Jerry, I want to fly to Texas. Keep this as quiet as you can. I don’t want any publicity.”_ > > The President and I flew to Lackland Air Force Base in San Antonio where I had done my basic training thirty years earlier. No press knew about the trip. Our destination was Brooke Army Medical Center where a surviving pilot was being treated for severe burns. As we walked into the hospital I flashed back to the Clark Air Force Base in Manilla with Humphrey thirteen years earlier where I witnessed first hand the horrors of war. But this was my first time with burn victims. The Vietnam burn victims were sent to Japan. > > At the Burn Center a doctor led us to a huge window through which we could see several beds. Since this was peacetime only one was filled. The lone patient was swathed head to toe in bandages. Only his eyes, mouth and nostrils were exposed. A nurse attended to him and the only sounds were the hiss of oxygen tanks and the musical _ping ping_ of machines connected to different parts of the patient’s body. > > _“He’s conscious,” the doctor said. “But we really don’t expect him to live”_ > > President Carter said to the doctor _“I’d like to go in and speak to him. May I?”_ > > The doctor hesitated. He was afterall in the US Army and his commander-in-chief stood before him. But he wanted to protect his patient. After an awkward minute he explained his dilemma. > > _“He’s totally vulnerable to infection. We have to maintain his sterile field. If you go in you’ll have to dress in surgical greens and cover your nose and mouth.”_ > > Carter readily agreed. We both changed our clothes, covered our hair and shoes, and put on face masks. But then I realized he really wanted private time with a man he put in a situation which may have killed him or ruined his future. > > I recall Jesus’s words, _all who are humble themselves will be exalted_. This president was humbling himself. That takes a different kind of courage. The patient was physically vulnerable but the president was making himself emotionally vulnerable. > > I said _“Mr President, I don’t have to go in. I’ll just watch you from the window”._ > > Carter entered and stood by the soldier’s bed. Like the patient, only the president’s eyes were visible. He said something and the soldier turned his head very slowly to the sound of the voice. This was a man wrapped head to toe in bandages. And in unspeakable pain he raised one hand and saluted Carter. Carter returned his saltue. > > Watching from the window gratitude filled my heart and spilled down my cheeks. I knew I was witnessing a supreme act of compassion. A holy moment born of mutual pain and forgiveness. When the president came out neither of us said a word. There are times when silence is more profound than words can ever be. > > The soldier lived. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2020, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-whats-gonna-be-awkward-jimmy-carters-funeral/854176/47 "2020-05-21T23:41:03Z")
> [@Boycott](#): > > A story about Jimmy Carter by a former Secret Service agent named Jerry Parr (the man who got Reagan into the car after being shot at) That’s a great story. I think we all can guess with how much fanfare how Chump would have handled the same visit. ---
**Author:** ![Yodalicious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yodalicious/32/8195_2.png) [@Yodalicious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yodalicious)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2020, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-whats-gonna-be-awkward-jimmy-carters-funeral/854176/48 "2020-05-22T04:31:50Z")
I imagine the closest Trump would get to Carter’s funeral would be walking by the casket as he is lying in state, and maybe saying a few words. For better or worse, I could see Pence coming down to Plains for the funeral. Sent from my hand-held telephonic communication device using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2020, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-whats-gonna-be-awkward-jimmy-carters-funeral/854176/49 "2020-05-22T04:39:17Z")
Did Pence attend Bush’s funeral? Don’t remember. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2020, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-whats-gonna-be-awkward-jimmy-carters-funeral/854176/50 "2020-05-22T10:55:37Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Did Pence attend Bush’s funeral? Don’t remember. “They did a wonderful job, he almost looks alive!” “No, honey, that’s Pence, Bush is the one lying down next to him.” ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2020, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-whats-gonna-be-awkward-jimmy-carters-funeral/854176/51 "2020-05-22T14:24:14Z")
> [@Yodalicious](#): > > I imagine the closest Trump would get to Carter’s funeral would be walking by the casket as he is lying in state, and maybe saying a few words. … “Saying a few words”? Like what? “I feel sorry for Jimmy Carter. Not because he’s dead but because there aren’t as many people here at his funeral as there were at my inauguration. Too bad.” At which point, Rosalynn walks up to trump and knocks his block off with a baseball bat. 🆒 The Secret Service agents do not intervene. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2020, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-whats-gonna-be-awkward-jimmy-carters-funeral/854176/52 "2020-05-22T14:54:32Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Under normal circumstances the sitting president would be asked to make an eulogy (not necessarily the ‘main’ eulogy, but at least to speak). However, in this case…no one is going to ask Trump to speak at any funeral because the man can barely string words together into a coherent sentence even when they are projected in front of him, and Trump would almost certainly take the opportunity to badmouth his ‘opponents’ including the deceased given that Carter has (in his own subtle way) expressed his contempt for Trump. Trump is stupid, and doesn’t get “subtle.” If Carter took a subtle shot at Trump, Trump wouldn’t get it. He doesn’t have a racial beef with Carter the way he does Obama, and he probably knows nothing about him. He’ll show up if invited and do one of those speeches where he’s reading something someone else wrote and so looks and sounds like he’s saying it at gunpoint. Anyway, they won’t ask him to say anything. They didn’t ask him to say anything at Bush 1.0’s funeral. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2020, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-whats-gonna-be-awkward-jimmy-carters-funeral/854176/53 "2020-05-22T15:16:32Z")
I would fully expect Obama to deliver the eulogy. It would be a surprise if Trump even showed up. ---
**Author:** ![Temporary\_Name](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8c91f0/32.png) [@Temporary\_Name](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Temporary_Name)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2020, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-whats-gonna-be-awkward-jimmy-carters-funeral/854176/54 "2020-05-22T15:40:20Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Well, Trump has been actively alienating close allies and courting the sort of authoritarians that we used to only talk to through covert intermediaries. Basically, he’s doing out in the open what the CIA has been doing for decades, only with even more incompetence because this is a man that can’t even successfully run a business with a statistically guaranteed gross profit margin. Basically, we [just need to have Robert DeNiro fire him](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcZHSGyos6g). > > Stranger I thought the link was going to be from WAG THE DOG where Hoffman doesn’t realize he has been really and truly fired: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pm-5gWhJ3qY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pm-5gWhJ3qY) so De Niro contains the situation otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2020, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-whats-gonna-be-awkward-jimmy-carters-funeral/854176/55 "2020-05-22T16:25:25Z")
> [@Temporary\_Name](#): > > I thought the link was going to be from WAG THE DOG where Hoffman doesn’t realize he has been really and truly fired: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pm-5gWhJ3qY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pm-5gWhJ3qY) so De Niro contains the situation otherwise. I love that movie but the character that best represents Trump is Woody Harrelson’s deranged rapist. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2020, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-whats-gonna-be-awkward-jimmy-carters-funeral/854176/56 "2020-05-23T03:53:26Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > I voted for Carter in both 1976 and 1980. Love the man. His funeral will not be awkward, because Chump will not be going anywhere near it. I voted for him in '80 - my first presidential election. I have always thought him a true gentleman, and thought he did his best. I have been awed by his humanitarian works. I honestly could not see Trump picking up a hammer and building a home for someone. > [@Velocity](#): > > I would fully expect Obama to deliver the eulogy. It would be a surprise if Trump even showed up. I would expect him to refuse to go, be dismissive and insulting in tweets and interviews. I expect Obama would give a great eulogy. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2020, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-whats-gonna-be-awkward-jimmy-carters-funeral/854176/57 "2020-05-23T05:40:21Z")
> [@Boycott](#): > > It would have been almost half a century since he got to drive on public roads too. Once you become president you lose that freedom for life. Maybe he gets to do the odd lap around the peanut farm. Where does this oft-repeated statement come from? As long as Jimmy Carter has a valid driver’s license, he can drive on the public roads just like I can. As an ex-President, he gets Secret Service protection and likely they would advise him for his safety not to drive in public, but the well worn idea that the Secret Service can order a President or ex-President around as if he is a prisoner is simply false. ---
**Author:** ![Brayne\_Ded](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Brayne\_Ded](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brayne_Ded)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2020, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-whats-gonna-be-awkward-jimmy-carters-funeral/854176/58 "2020-05-23T12:12:50Z")
> [@Asuka](#): > > … despite the fact his actions literally lead to the deaths of more people than Trump, probably only dwarfed by George W Bush due to Carters love of sending money to prop up 3rd World Anti-Commie Dictators. Do you have the right name there? Names like Reagan and Bush spring to mind instead, but hey, how would I know. Or should we just blame the US gummint for doing that it always does regardless of the current occupant of the Oval Office? ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2020, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-whats-gonna-be-awkward-jimmy-carters-funeral/854176/59 "2020-05-23T15:00:58Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > That’s a great story. I think we all can guess with how much fanfare how Chump would have handled the same visit. And not even worn a mask. ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2020, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-whats-gonna-be-awkward-jimmy-carters-funeral/854176/60 "2020-05-23T15:19:32Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > Is there any particular reason to believe Jimmy Carter is at death’s door? I know he’s 96 and was hospitalized for falls last year, but AFAICT he hasn’t contracted Covid 19 or anything. The OP is pretty creepy, IMHO. It illustrates IMO the duality between the inhibitions of internet discussion and say TV discussion. If there was a cable news panel segment on Carter’s funeral plans I think it would still universally considered inappropriate, or the overused ‘creepy’. But by the standard of what people say on the internet, seems pretty tame speculation. Although, unless you assume Trump will be reelected, Carter would have only months to die and Trump still be president during his funeral, not statistically likely\*. If Trump were to be reelected then it would be pretty likely (the general death rate in Trump’s age range is ~3-4% per year v around 30% per year at Carter’s, male life expectancy at Carter’s present age is around 2.5 yrs, all figures Social Security Actuarial Table\*). But not really so awkward anyway. Trump would virtually 100% certainly not be asked to speak, and might well not be invited. Again the difference between cable news segments and ordinary people. The former would breathlessly discuss this ‘dramatic break from precedent’ to fill their 24 hours, most people would shrug. \*general actuarial table including people with all kinds of health situations past and now (eg. Carter got an apparent terminal cancer diagnosis a few years ago, remarkable recovery and good for him, but the effect on his longevity prospects is hard to say I think). Some people who really don’t like Trump make what seem to me exaggerated statements about his bad health, but I see no reason to think he’s below average in life expectancy for a man his age. The table includes people at that age who already have the serious illness that’s going to kill them, smoked for decades, etc. If Trump ate healthy, lost some weight and exercised more his LE might be 20+ yrs. It’s not hard to believe it’s the average ~12yrs as is. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-whats-gonna-be-awkward-jimmy-carters-funeral/854176.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-know-whats-gonna-be-awkward-jimmy-carters-funeral/854176.md?page=4)