# You lose. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 5, 2001, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-lose/60995 "2001-04-05T23:27:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Amedeus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de0a6/32.png) [@Amedeus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amedeus)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2001, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-lose/60995/21 "2001-04-06T10:14:09Z")
**Drops his bag of chips** What, no, you can’t be done yet. That was too good to be that short, keep going… ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2001, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-lose/60995/22 "2001-04-06T12:37:04Z")
Thanks for all the positive responses, gang. I want you to know that they helped. Once I started researching MBP, and all the puzzles started to click into place, I spent a few days beating myself up over it — a parent is supposed to _know_ if their child is being hurt. On many levels I think I failed my child by believing her, letting her deal with the doctors, thinking she was just “overprotective”, etc. All I can do, though is move on with him. Like all kids, he responds well to consistency and kindness, and he’s got a great positive outlook. He’ll do just fine, because we’re here for him. Of course, we now have to question every food allergy and drug reaction we thought we knew about — if you’re trying to keep a kid sickly, denying him the most effective antibiotics is a damned good way to do it — but that’ll just give him more and more evidence that he’s getting better. **DDG** : I’ll go a little spotty on the details, as they kind of read like bad fiction. Briefly, she decided the best way to get the karate instructor she had a crush on to respond to her was to physically attack him in front of a class (the one my son is in), give him a fake suicide note, and refuse to leave the studio. (Yeah, I know; you’re thinking Jerry Springer right now.) She claims now that she knew “her” medication (my son’s Prozac prescription) was not adequate, and that she did all this to get attention so she could get help. (Yes, I’m serious.) While she was in the fine county mental health facility, and after the school finally managed to contact me, I began to find out other things. It’s amazing how “concerned” you find people to have been after something like this happens… Suffice it to say that I’m fairly confident she won’t fight this, and that if she does (she’ll have to convince the same judge who gave me custody) she won’t prevail. All child custody orders are temporary, but we’re reasonably secure he’ll be with us for as long as he wants. And for those of you expressing some empathy for my ex-wife’s mental illness; I have no problem with your point of view. While I can no longer find any room in my heart to feel pity or concern for her, I’ve always avoided saying anything negative about her to my son. My son loves his mother, as all children do. He can’t help it, and I won’t discourage it. But don’t expect me to let my child back into the snake pit merely because I understand that the snakes are just following their nature. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Corrado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a88e4f/32.png) [@John\_Corrado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Corrado)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2001, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-lose/60995/23 "2001-04-06T12:58:34Z")
Bully for you, **xen**! ---
**Author:** ![Sealemon88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c68b51/32.png) [@Sealemon88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sealemon88)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2001, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-lose/60995/24 "2001-04-06T13:03:31Z")
> [@](#): > > But don’t expect me to let my child back into the snake pit merely because I understand that the snakes are just following their nature. Oh **hell** no! It doesn’t matter how tragic your ex’s story is. There is absolutily no reason to poison your child’s life with her presense. I’m so glad that you got full custody. Great post, xeno. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2001, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-lose/60995/25 "2001-04-06T13:10:26Z")
Ladies and Gentlemen: Without a doubt, the perfect rant. Controlled, angry and firm without being overtly hostile, and with a happy ending. **Xeno** , congratulations on the perfect rant and taking care of your child. There’s nothing more important. I think we can close the pit now. We’ll never top this. Bravo. ---
**Author:** ![Arden\_Ranger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b487fb/32.png) [@Arden\_Ranger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arden_Ranger)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2001, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-lose/60995/26 "2001-04-06T13:18:51Z")
**xeno** , I am so thrilled for you and your son. Too many times in my stint as a daycare provider did I see mothers who had no business raising kids and fathers who should have had custody but were denied it by the short-sighted courts. My you, your boy and your wife know peace and joy. ---
**Author:** ![BunnyGirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@BunnyGirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BunnyGirl)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2001, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-lose/60995/27 "2001-04-06T15:14:51Z")
Excellent! By jove, that’s just about the best thing I’ve heard in a while. I’ll be praying for you that this will be _permanent_ custody - that boy sure is lucky having you and your wife! ---
**Author:** ![TPWombat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbce88/32.png) [@TPWombat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TPWombat)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2001, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-lose/60995/28 "2001-04-07T13:47:10Z")
{{{{Hugs}}}}} to all of you, Xeno :):):):):)🙂 May the winds be always at your backs! ---
**Author:** ![Sterra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8c91f0/32.png) [@Sterra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterra)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2001, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-lose/60995/29 "2001-04-07T14:10:50Z")
> [@](#): > > My son loves his mother, as all children do Give him a few years and any contact at all with her and I bet he will hate her. You should probably even try to limit a small amount of contact. ---
**Author:** ![flyboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/4da419/32.png) [@flyboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flyboy)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2001, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-lose/60995/30 "2001-04-07T17:16:43Z")
And I thought _my_ ex was two-faced. Wow. Good for you, and best of luck. [sub]Hey, is it normal to get teary-eyed in the Pit?[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2001, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-lose/60995/31 "2001-04-07T19:35:16Z")
Damn . . . that was the ending you could not predict unless you were a doctor. And I ain’t. Youch. {xen} and {xen jr}. ::shakes head:: I remember my father writing a story about a woman almost as sick. The truth is stranger than fiction. flyboy88: No, not especially. It takes something special. Something poignant and . . . with that special something that only comes with **experiences**. It’s that quality that makes or breaks things. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Onimous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ea5d25/32.png) [@Ann\_Onimous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Onimous)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2001, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-lose/60995/32 "2001-04-07T20:59:16Z")
Wow. Amazing. You’ve been through hell and back on this situation. I pray for blessings on the whole family: and yes, even your ex, that she may find peace and some kind of healing. I’m a non-custodial mom myself, and I pray every day that my ex is not teaching her to hate me. I love her with all my heart. It tears me up to be away from her. But right now there’s nothing I can do except pray. If this doesn’t offend, God bless, and I’ll be praying for all of you. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2001, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-lose/60995/33 "2001-04-07T21:29:53Z")
Now I understand your screen name, **Xeno**. That was truly a climb uphill, an **Anabasis**. Thank God that you won out. As someone else noted, no story can top this. Thank you, from the bottom of my heart, for confirming that human decency can and does finally win out in the end. I’m proud to be a cyberfriend of someone as brave and determined as you. {{{Xeno Jr}}} ================== Which brings me to one important point: If you’re a parent, grandparent, aunt, uncle, adult friend, or whatever of a child… **Believe that child**. I know, in confidence, several horror stories told me by young people about things that happened to them in their childhood. Most of them have in common that they asked for help, for a way out of the horrible situation, **and were not believed.** “S/He’d never do anything like that. You’re exaggerating.” Wrong. Believe the child. ---
**Author:** ![Yue\_Han](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/eada6e/32.png) [@Yue\_Han](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yue_Han)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2001, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-lose/60995/34 "2001-04-08T17:23:21Z")
Matt has apparently discovered the ideal phrase for conveying the appropriate response to good new such as this: > [@](#): > > Hot damn and Hallelujah! I tried to think of something else, but that’s it exactly. –John ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2001, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-lose/60995/35 "2001-04-08T21:49:30Z")
I hate the way that courts seem to automatically assume the mother is the best parent. There has been a demonisation of male parenting by so many agencies who should know better. Mothers can be just as mean, devious, and horrible yet in divorces this gets thrown to one side. When will the courts learn, the best parent is the best parent, neither male nor female, just the best. Good for you **Xeno** I can’t imagine what the both of you must have gone through before you were able to get out from under. ---
**Author:** ![Elenfair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/cc9497/32.png) [@Elenfair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elenfair)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2001, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-lose/60995/36 "2001-04-09T00:10:26Z")
Let me join the Hot damn and Hallelujah chorus. Munchausen scares me shitless. _shudder_ Best wishes to you, the kiddo, and Mrs. Xeno (does that make her “Xena” and if so, can she make funny noises?) E. ---
**Author:** ![Drastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Drastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drastic)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2001, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-lose/60995/37 "2001-04-09T00:22:18Z")
I’ll join the chorus as well. I don’t think any good parent period should beat themselves up for not realizing sooner–Munchausen by proxy is one of those things that’s just so downright horrid to even think about it’s natural for decent human beings not to expect to ever see it. Thank everything sacred your child’s free of it now. (And as flyboy noted, jeezis, this puts a certain ex in a whole new and more forgiving light.) ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Onimous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ea5d25/32.png) [@Ann\_Onimous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Onimous)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2001, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-lose/60995/38 "2001-04-09T01:26:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by casdave \* > \*\*I hate the way that courts seem to automatically assume the mother is the best parent. > > There has been a demonisation of male parenting by so many agencies who should know better. > > Mothers can be just as mean, devious, and horrible yet in divorces this gets thrown to one side. > > When will the courts learn, the best parent is the best parent, neither male nor female, just the best. > > Good for you **Xeno** I can’t imagine what the both of you must have gone through before you were able to get out from under. \*\* And, in my case, the person who had the best connections and the best lawyer is the best parent. Sorry, but my ex is on welfare, food stamps and Medicare, raising our child in an effeciency apartment, all because his uncle was a judge and his parents could afford a good attorney. Meanwhile, I’m married, have a great job with great insurance, was mentally and physically abused by this jackass, and can’t even see my daughter. In the case of the OP, the father is the best parent. But with this new trend, some mothers are getting shafted. It’s not fair to anybody. ---
**Author:** ![Kaz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kaz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaz)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2001, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-lose/60995/39 "2001-04-09T01:57:39Z")
**Xeno** , thank you so much for sharing that. A great story with a great ending like that always makes me feel so powerful! I feel all tingly and warm inside, knowing that a child has a much better life because of someone that I know (well, kinda know, or at least have interactions with…). Best of luck for the future,for you and your son. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2001, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-lose/60995/40 "2001-04-09T01:58:02Z")
And of course there is hte inevitable problem of when there **is** no best parent–sometimes two wonderful parents discover tehy can’t stand to be married, and sometimes two horrible parents get divorced. I think that this, as much as anything, is why Judges have to latch on to arbitrary qualities to make decsions, though flipping a coin would be better–at least it dosen’t pretend that one parent is more qualified or a better person. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-lose/60995.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-lose/60995.md?page=3)